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#21 astros

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Posted 13 October 2016 - 04:54 AM

I certainly don't think the whole Bible should be taken literally, as a lot is figurative.

 

And I wasn't arguing that religions don't evolve,  they certainly do, and many of them are false. But I was arguing that the truth doesn't evolve.

^^ "I wouldn't say that religion has evolved by any means" five posts up.

 

Fine, you argue other religions are false. I have a challenge for you. My religion of ASStroanity is the one true religion. The chosen sons of ASStroanity, Jeff Bagwell and Craig Biggio, preached that it is the one true religion and all other religions are heresy. Prove my religion is false without using an argument I can conversely use to say Christianity (or any other religion) is false.


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#22 Napoleon 1er

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Posted 13 October 2016 - 05:23 AM

... if religions are evolving as you say above then where from did ASStroanity evolve from? ... for christianism it is clear but for yours ...?

If you don't know where you go ... you have a lot of chance to arrive elsewhere ...


#23 astros

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Posted 13 October 2016 - 05:32 AM

... if religions are evolving as you say above then where from did ASStroanity evolve from? ... for christianism it is clear but for yours ...?

I am simply mirroring his logic not arguing that it makes sense.


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#24 Napoleon 1er

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Posted 13 October 2016 - 05:54 AM

ASStroanity is false because it does not evolve from anywhere while christianism or judaism or islam are true religions because they have a common origin which is way back in time when the universe was created ...
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If you don't know where you go ... you have a lot of chance to arrive elsewhere ...


#25 astros

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Posted 13 October 2016 - 06:09 AM

ASStroanity was created in 1962 with the founding of the Astros, as was the rest of the universe. Therefore it was the first religion. The other religions you mention were made up to dissuade people. The Book of ASStros says so.


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#26 GaryLShelton

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Posted 13 October 2016 - 06:50 AM

'The Book of ASStros' is in slight error. So it's definitely not authoritative. :D

Technically the Astros, astros, were born in 1965. They were the same team franchise as the Colt .45's that was an expansion team the same year as the Mets in 1962. The Houston owner probably wanted a more up to date name and also to move away from infringing on the famous gun maker's name. Plus, Houston was considered the center of the space age that was ever growing in those days. (Oh how I hated my Saturday morning cartoons being interrupted by yet another interminable new rocket launch! Who remembers those? queenbee1? Gwynplaine? Sgt. Blkdog?) They also had a new stadium that year and the Astrodome had a definite ring to it, so it was bye bye for the Colt .45's.

I'm so old I remember the stickers my brother used to collect for the baseball teams at the time. There was one for the soon-to-be-gone Seattle Pilots, Washington Senators, Kansas City Athletics, and yes, the Houston Colt .45's. Also he collected the stickers for the new teams like the Minnesota Twins and California Angels, the Houston Astros, and a similarly named Montreal Expos, and also late in the 60's in came the Kansas City Royals and Milwaukee Brewers. Don't know how my mom put up with that all over his door.... :)
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#27 Master Mind

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Posted 13 October 2016 - 06:53 AM

I surely think the Bible (which takes a very big part in Christianity) has evolved, but the clue of the Bible hasn't changed. The 66 canonical books of the Bible are written in a period spread over 1600 years. The big flood had already been, when Mozes wrote his first book, so people didn't become older as 200 years. In the books of Moses, although a lot of historical information is given, the way of salvation is preached exactly the same as in the last books, written 1600 years later. No one has ever find something in the Bible that object to another part in the Bible. The book is in the top of most read literary books, together with 'The Pilgrim's Progress', in which the way of salvation is preached very clearly as well. This still says quite a lot I think. Meanings of particular people itself may differ about the Bible, that something is extra-ordinary or cannot happen, but you are never able to find any contradiction in the Bible that cannot be explained.


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#28 GaryLShelton

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Posted 13 October 2016 - 07:06 AM

Do you read a Bible in Dutch, Huib? The things that are challenges for Christianity will always be, to some extent, related to the Bible version used or quoted. In English there are tons of Bibles. How many different ones in Dutch, French, and German would there be, I wonder.
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#29 TheOptician

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Posted 13 October 2016 - 09:26 AM

<No one has ever find something in the Bible that object to another part in the Bible
< You are never able to find any contradiction in the Bible that cannot be explained.

There are loads of Internet web-sites dedicated to contradictions in the Bible, seek and ye shall find. You can decide whether they are contradictions or not - the power to interpret is yours.

The book of ASStros, as is the case with all religious texts, was actually created by the TheOlogists, a clandestine group united by the purpose of spreading values around the world.

TheOlogists found that values only spread effectively when people aligned with a religious text to provide the illusion of authenticity. In the beginning, they simply visited people at home and suggested (for example) that they should be kinder to their neighbour. As 'oh yeah, says who?' was by far the most popular response, TheOlogists realised that many people seemed to require the endorsement of someone they either feared, respected or loved before they were prepared to listen.

TheOlogists diverted their resources to street performance, employing many different actors to stage public shows (often using actors who were prepared to go undercover for long periods), in addition to providing eye-witnesses testimonies to verify many miraculous events.

Ideas and values stuck and dispersed much quicker and more effectively after that. TheOlogists established multitudes of value spreading centres, many of which became religions.

Importantly, TheOlogists decided it was far too egotistical and hypocritical to tell people what to think, or which values should actually be spread. A second difficulty in suggesting specific values quickly became apparent as TheOlogists realised that the things that humans considered valuable evolved over time. So, being unable to foresee the entire future of humanity, and being unable to predict what future generations would consider valuable, they decided that humans and the authors of the texts could decide values for themselves. They theorised that the actual ideas that spread were not of crucial importance, simply that they were spread. It was hoped at some point in the future that the values of all the world align to create TheOnlightenment.

#30 queenbee1

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Posted 14 October 2016 - 03:13 AM

Nothing religious people claim can be proved and miracles are not proof of a supreme being. I like to think that life as we know it is miraculous, but I don't attribute it to a God. Everyone has the right to their own beliefs, but not the right to impose their beliefs on others through the legislative process. That there are basic human rights that may or may not be accepted by the majority. The minority must be protected from Mob Rule.



#31 Kernel Mustard

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Posted 14 October 2016 - 06:49 AM

@TheOpt sounds like a false religion then.

 

@QB Everything around us is proof of a supreme being. If you went into a cave, and found sculptures and paintings engraved into the stone, wouldn't that prove to you that some one was once living there? Our world is filled with sculptures and paintings.


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#32 queenbee1

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Posted 14 October 2016 - 07:31 AM

 

 

@QB Everything around us is proof of a supreme being. If you went into a cave, and found sculptures and paintings engraved into the stone, wouldn't that prove to you that some one was once living there? Our world is filled with sculptures and paintings.

You see that is where you and I differ. By my observations and experience nothing that exists is proof of a supreme being. Science at this time cannot explain how the universe came into existence, but it make no such claims. The burden of proof is not on science. Much of life is yet to be discovered and I see great promise in the road ahead. I think discovery is part of what makes life interesting. When I opened the consciousness topic that was to explore self discovery.  



#33 TheOptician

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Posted 14 October 2016 - 11:32 AM

>@TheOpt sounds like a false religion then.

When is something classified as a religion then? And why is it necessary to be defined as a religion. Did God ever say (or was God ever reported to say) 'by the way, these things that I am doing - this falls under religion'.

#34 queenbee1

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Posted 15 October 2016 - 02:53 AM

I can give you the dictionary version, but I think humans since they became self conscious and set themselves apart from the other animals started be create religions. It's as if we have an innate need to explain the beginning, middle and the end. Religion used to be primitive and in some parts of the world they still are. Christians attend Sunday services, Muslims pray 5 times a day, Buddhists meditate. Before Europeans came to America the natives had their own religion. There were the Mayans, the Incas, the Egyptian Sun god Ra, there was the Greek and Roman Gods and the Norse Gods. We live in hierarchal societies is it any wonder that our religions mirror that?

 

I often think of Maslow's hierarchy of needs and how when one no longer fears going hungry, for their basic safety, belonging and love they find self actualization. Maslow used the terms "physiological", "safety", "belongingness" and "love", "esteem", "self-actualization", and "self-transcendence" to describe the pattern that human motivations generally move through.

 

I think that religion meets some of those needs as in safety in numbers and belonging to something. To share a common belief. For others they have what they need and religion becomes less important or completely unnecessary. As I have said religion is not inherently bad. It is used by some people to do harmful things to others. That is where I draw the line.

 

Most religious people have moved past the need for all people in the tribe to conform to specific behaviors. This is why in Western cultures adultery is frowned upon, but is not a death sentence. Why people no longer accuse their neighbors of witchcraft or that mentally ill people are possessed by demons. We can pray for the man who goes into surgery, but heart disease is no longer the death sentence it once was.

 

Each decade brings new breakthroughs and less fear of disease and death, but in the end we all cease to breathe and our heart stops beating. Who we once were is gone and all the religion in the world cannot bring a loved one back. I think religion also helps some people in dealing with death or the loss of a loved one. It is easier for them to believe that they are in heaven than to believe that they are just gone forever.


Edited by queenbee1, 15 October 2016 - 04:35 AM.

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#35 Chewtoy

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Posted 15 October 2016 - 03:28 AM

This is the new religion thread inspired by QB's Consciousness thread. 

 

If anyone has any questions about Christianity, or religion in general, I am open to providing my best response.

 

Gary made an interesting point earlier about the differences between NIV and KJV, and I will just say that you have to be careful what translation you use. John 1:18 for me is the most significant. If you look at all the many translations you will see that many disagree with each other.

There is no god.

An omniscient being would never resort to trail and error. 

A god who experiences emotions is impossible. 

 

We humans experience emotion because we don't know what is to come. A god who becomes angry is impossible. 


Edited by Chewtoy, 15 October 2016 - 03:28 AM.

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Terror made me cruel. 


#36 Kernel Mustard

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Posted 15 October 2016 - 06:05 AM

>@TheOpt sounds like a false religion then.

When is something classified as a religion then? And why is it necessary to be defined as a religion. Did God ever say (or was God ever reported to say) 'by the way, these things that I am doing - this falls under religion'.

Ah, religion is just a word used to describe a set of moral beliefs. Although I think it can also refer generally to the truth of the Bible, which is why I argued that religion doesn't evolve earlier up.

 

The reason I defined what you wrote about as a religion is because it has a book, and followers with a unique name, and it concerns morality. 

 

But the Bible doesn't show God defining anything he says about religion as you asked above, because after all, it's not about an external form of "religion," but it's about the truth.

 

There is no god.

An omniscient being would never resort to trail and error. 

A god who experiences emotions is impossible. 

 

We humans experience emotion because we don't know what is to come. A god who becomes angry is impossible. 

You make a lot of assertions here without any logic. Why can't a Creator exist? Why couldn't he have emotions? Why couldn't he be "slow to anger, yet abounding in love?" What makes you think he uses trial and error?

 

 


Edited by Kernel Mustard, 15 October 2016 - 06:10 AM.

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#37 Master Mind

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Posted 15 October 2016 - 06:56 AM

Chewtoy, we are humans, and we can't understand an Allmighty God, but in everything in nature and the Bible, we can see, there must be a God.


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#38 TheOptician

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Posted 15 October 2016 - 08:17 AM

The scientific community has pretty good theories for how nature operates - without the necessity for a God.



#39 Yellowhat

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Posted 15 October 2016 - 09:08 AM

There are lots of organisms that are so incredibly complex that there must be a Designer. Some years ago, scientists have found an insect with gears in its body. And that's just one example. Bacterias have a flagellum with a motor with 100,000 rPM. They can't be formed by chance. Everyone knows that, if they want to admit it or not. 


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#40 Lonello

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Posted 15 October 2016 - 10:05 AM

Yes Yellowhat, they are complex. But if you even dig deeper, you will notice the rudimentary organs. What use do they have? It's bad design! These organs are proove of evolution. I believe you are Dutch so I'll mention our stuitje in our language as I do not know the word in English. Some organs even go back to the gills of fish. 


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