I understand what you are saying, but there is a reason why I instituted the pre-bind / full-bind system. Without pre-binds you will have players getting warned for not really chasing much at all. The system you want is my old Full-bind only system, so let's look at the problem with my old system with only Full-binds.
Because of the 2 square rule, players can move back and forth to dodge an attack in the same 2 squares for a total of 3 moves before being warned that they can not move back and forth between the same 2 spaces. To chase someone to their base from 1 side of the board to the other side of the board while using the 2 square rule will take 35 moves for the attacking player. That means that 20 full-binds will cut the chase short, and someone trapping a player because of the 2 square rule will be dinged for chasing before 35 full-binds. This will allow the defending player to move away from position and avoid the trap. This could even give the defending player an advantage to counter attack with the defending piece if the attacking piece is stuck, because of chasing endlessly.
HmmNess, thank you for your thoughtful response.
Well, I never thought I'd say this, but "God Bless the 2-Square Rule"!
That's tongue-in-cheek, naturally. I like the higher count on full-binds but I dislike the reason you give for coming up with this alternative. That is, of course, you are stating that we need 30-35 full-binds to work with the 2-square rule. As a guy who once, long ago, proposed 50 moves in this forum, I think the 30-35 number is very un-intrusive, and therefore a good alternative. So if it takes the 2-Square Rule to get it to come about, then hallelujah! Your plan to combine the Anti-Chase Rule and the 2-Square Rule is shrewd. But I still don't believe in the 2-Square Rule, nor the notion that this rule is good when it acts like the proverbial "third hand" to help an attacker in a kill that would otherwise take a strategic working in of a 2nd backup piece to do the job. That is the way the board game would be played. Your objection to the defender being unintentionally given the advantage to counter attack brings to my mind the old adages, "He who lives by the sword, dies by the sword." And, "Never play with fire." In simple terms I don't like the 2-Square Rule because it gives an advantage for a knowledgeable attacker that does not exist in the board game. In the board game the chased piece can NEVER be killed by any single piece.
Eventually, I would hope that we could establish a solid anti-chasing rule and then eliminate the 2-Square Rule from this site. The latter is not necessary for a good Anti-Chasing Rule to exist.
There are 2 ways to fix this problem.
1.) Allow 35 Full-binds before a warning message.
2.) Have a pre-bind system that will work with the full-bind system.
35 full-binds may take a while, but might be the right system to implement, since some players will not know they are chasing. But, if 35 full-binds are allowed before a warning and we take out the pre-bind system all together, we had better put the warning card system in place that will force people to forfeit if they are warned too many times. I agree, this system would stop endless chasing and the endless run around the ponds.
I thought the pre-bind system would be a better move, since it would stop the endless loop chase and would ding people immediately after 5 full-binds. This would let people know right away that they can not chase. The problem with this system is that is does not stop the endless pond chasing that people are complaining about. If we want to stop both types of chasing, we should probably incorporate my old system with 35 full-binds.
The Card system would take care of this and warn people throughout the game to let them know that they are in danger of forfeiting, because of chasing. A yellow card tells the player that they are on thin ice. No one wants to see a Red Card, so showing the Red Card before a player is forced to forfeit the match, imo is right on the money. The Red Card is not needed, but it is nice to give players that final slap in the face while saying "Don't do that again next time you play. Here is you loss"
I don't believe we should ding players for each chase "move." There are times where you need to chase a little to get into someone's head or maybe see if they will make a mistake. You don't want to ding a player near the end of the game just because they hit 200 chase moves during the game. Most players will wonder why they have the loss.
All in all, I think you have helped me to realize that the pond chasing and endless loop chasing can be fixed with full-binds only as long as we have around 30-35 full-binds before a player is warned. You are right, this is a simpler way of dealing with chasers. If we add the card system to this, we have around 175 full-binds that can be made in 1 swoop. This would force a loss and would not affect the automatic 200 move per player draw system.
What are your thoughts?
I really don't think we're all that far apart here. I like the 30-35 move notion. I like the Warning Card System, and I am almost for it, though I still say that a total game limit on chasing moves makes a lot of sense. But more on this in the "Some Notes" below.
It is good to have the Warning Card limit at 180 (175 + 5 = 180) total full-bind moves since that is lower than the 200 Auto Draw figure. I would only still contend that in the forfeiture of the game there should be 5 moves after the Red Card. After all, if one "Red Lines" a car, the car doesn't automatically blow up....but one is very close perhaps.... I don't know how many people would see your Red Card, HmmNess, if it didn't come until you suggest, as so many players are "outta here!" as soon as the banners flash up. A Red Light is generally a strong warning. But it doesn't mean death. Black is death. To plagiarize Billy Crystal from "A Princess Bride", "Red is only mostly dead!" So let's give 'em the Red Card when they're only "mostly" dead.
With my one suggested change, I would assume that the Warning Card levels could be recalibrated to:
1.) You create 35 full-binds and you get a message warning only.
2.) You chase again and create 35 full-binds which will give you another message warning.
3.) You chase again and create 35 full-binds which will give you a Green Card.
4.) You chase again and create 35 full-binds which will give you a Yellow Card.
5.) You chase again and create 35 full-binds which will give you a Red Card. Special 5 move countdown timer appears.
6.) Automatic Loss strikes offending player after 5 full-bind chasing moves beyond the Red Card.
This would total 180 chasing moves in the game, but broken down into 5 separate chasing events.
Some notes. I would suggest that the Warning Cards and the Special 5 move countdown timer be visible to both players. This would aid in screen shots to show that the offending player was at a certain level of warning in disputes. Second, I believe there should be included in the Rule an exception for "incidental" chasing. This "incidental" chasing would be the first full bind between any two pieces, and would be ignored by the computer. This would correct one thing and insure against another:
- Officially, on this site anyway, the situation Trickz and Nortrom discussed with the Marshal and General losing to the pair of Miners under the ISF rules would be fixed so that such a travesty could not occur.
- The mere passing of one piece in front of a line of his unknown opponents would not result in a full-bind being counted by the computer for each full-bind made in that process. For a player under the Red Card, this could be a huge factor.
One thing I believe still stands out as a problem with the Warning Card System is that a player can, under the proposal herein, chase for 34 times, break off, and then resume again after only one turn moving another piece. He wouldn't even get a warning card or even an initial warning if it was the first time. But, if you incorporate a total game chasing limit into the Anti-Chasing Rule, then you address this distinct possibility. It would be the "net" to catch the ones would game the 35 move limit. But it must be noted, though, that it would be possible under this idea to invoke the automatic forfeiture and not have a single Warning Card issued. So do we really need the Warning Cards?
We need a total game limit, I think, and also a per-incident limit. One possible suggestion here is that I could see the Warning Card levels be made to represent specific levels of chasing within the whole game, and not merely tied to an individual chasing episode. That is, I would propose the following changes to the Warning Card System:
1.) You create 35 full-binds within the game and you get a message warning only.
2.) You create 70 full-binds within the game and you get another message warning.
3.) You create 105 full-binds within the game and you get a Green Card.
4.) You create 140 full-binds within the game and you get a Yellow Card.
5.) You create 175 full-binds within the game and you get a Red Card. Special 5 move countdown timer appears.
6.) Automatic Loss strikes offending player after 5 full-bind chasing moves beyond the Red Card
Finally, I would suggest we discuss how the chase is to be counted as "broken off". If it is only one turn, then there can be a lot of resumed chases after a mere one-turn break. Would it be a good idea to invoke a 2 turn break penalty after each Warning Card level was reached? My total game limit would catch the guilty chaser whether he took a one-turn break, or two, or ten.
There are probably other issues I cannot think to address tonight, but I'm zapped. Hope this is helpful. GLS