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UK Independence 'Brexit' or 'Bremain'


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Poll: UK Independence (17 member(s) have cast votes)

What's your opinion? (votes are public)

  1. Bremain (15 votes [88.24%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 88.24%

  2. Brexit (2 votes [11.76%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 11.76%

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#1 Master Mind

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 06:29 AM

This morning, I heard that the referendum for 'Brexit' made it for 52% pro, and 48% against. For us, in the Netherlands, it is a bad thing that England will leave the EU. I was actually curious for the reasons for 'Brexit' and 'Bremain'. And is there a chance that England will stay in the Schengen-agreement, just like Norway? And why does the president of the EU, Donald Tusk, almost 'begged' England to stay? What will be the consequences for the Netherlands in particular and for the EU as a whole?


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#2 sevenseas

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 09:31 AM

I voted Bremain. I'm quite surprised we left, everyone I have talked to has voted bremain too. The reason I did this is because I feel that leaving the EU would cause our economy to drop in the distant future as we would have to establish new trade relations with our European neighbours. As London especially is one of the most important cities in the world by our trade relations, alienating our relationship with fellow countries by choosing to leaving the EU can be risky. 

 

I hope that the situation in England remains good under these new and unfamiliar circumstances. 


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#3 Master Mind

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 10:45 AM

astros, I also think it is more likely that there will be a 'domino' effect with the leave of England. Just like the rise of communism in Asia. For the EU, of course money is the most important thing. England pays around 15-20%, and in regard that it is only 1 of the 28 countries of the EU. With a simple calculation this shows that England pays around 5 times the amount it actually should pay (in relation to the other EU countries).

 

I think a big effect on the Netherlands is indeed trade. Besides from Germany, England is one of our biggest trade companions. In total, Dutch companies have around 175 billion Euros of investments in the United Kingdom. These investments can produce up to 1.5% of our GNP. And although the economy of the Netherlands is on its path of 'recovery', this won't be promotional for our 466 billion Euros national debt.

 

Additionally, if Scotland finally has the majority of votes for their own independence, they will probably join the EU again. This actually means there must be border security between England and Scotland, because it belongs to the border of the EU itself. Quite a weird idea...


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#4 Gwynplaine

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 12:32 PM

I'm an expatriate living in Central Europe so I do not feel that I have a right to a strong opinion on British sentiment, but what I have come to understand is that the governments of Great Britain and the E.U. had started locking horns over specific economically based issues–one of the salient matters being the E.U's demand of Britain accepting their immigration policies. Apparently, Prime Minister Cameron was proposing a four year ban which was presenting a sticking point in negotiations. If the UK continued at its current rate with EU guidelines imposed, it was feared that as many as 300,000 Britons might lose benefit entitlement. As we are living in a media driven society, there is a great deal of fear mongering going on. As a consequence, many publics in Western nations are finding themselves challenged by these events–Muslim immigrants as an example. Whether the argument is fair or unfair, the end result is that people are very nervous on both sides–this is not a good thing.

 

Is it not possible that by Britain conducting a vote among its citizens has established a very strong element of what will go into the now imposed process of an "Exit" program? In other words, Great Britain was already questioning the influx of refugees and then being told by the EU that they HAD to take them in like it or not, and then secondarily EU immigrants–remember, there are many high level individuals from Germany, Holland, France, Belgium, etc... who live and work in England...the British government knows that this is a very complex and complicated matter. I am wondering how much the EU commission understands just what a hot potato they have, and how they have mismanaged this entire affair in the near East. Too many super powers are involved over there and this is the result–refugees fleeing...can you blame them? This vote merely starts a process that is going to take years to work out...many at that!


Edited by Gwynplaine, 24 June 2016 - 04:53 PM.

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#5 PuzzledTea

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 05:41 PM

I'm as surprised as probably many to wake up to us leaving the EU. To be honest at first glance I was a bit unsettled about the whole thing, I think a big factor in the result was that both sides were just flinging negativity at each other, trying to scare people into voting for them. With research people could find positive reasons to pick a side, but if you listened to politicians only there would be 99% negativity on economic stuff particularly.

 

It's going to be rocky here for a little while for certain, even if Bremain it'd still be a little shaky. But I'm hopeful that the UK has the strength to go it alone, won't be for a couple of years yet till we actually take our leave of the EU. Maybe in that time we can settle our ties and make some stability in between so we have a base to stand on from there.

 

Hopefully we will still trade with EU countries, it'd be silly not too for us and them IMO, though the terms will of course be different. Not sure what effect it'll have on jobs but it would really depend on what sectors take more of a hit than others really.  I think it;'s best just to take it one day at a time, everything has been decided regardless of what I wanted, just got to find a way to play the cards we've been dealt to the best value they can be. I'm sure us in the UK and the rest of the world will do fine.

 

Oh and also. If leaving the EU would have meant awfully for us, I'm sure our Prime Minister would have not even bothered with the referendum. I should hope that was the case anyway.... (I voted Bremain for the record too.)


Edited by PuzzledTea, 24 June 2016 - 05:58 PM.


#6 Gwynplaine

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 07:17 PM

Greetings, "PuzzledTea," and salutations. It's good to hear from a British citizen about their feelings concerning this moment. The news is basically, in my opinion, unreliable at best. Yes, it will be some years before a full exit can be effected, nevertheless, Great Britain is not a weak nation and will weather this event, undoubtedly.

 

Yours is the first voice I have heard that has shed any light on the mood of the arena leading up to this vote–and it quite substantiates what I have suspected about the circumstances involved: "...both sides were just flinging negativity at each other, trying to scare people into voting for them." This really goes to one aspect in which the media is trying to control everything through their reporting. It is sad because there are truthful reports, but for every one of them, there are a dozen obfuscating the reality.

 

The world is too connected these days to be independent of another nation, hence, trading must continue. Didn't P.M. Cameron want something along the lines of a freeze on immigration issues until the economy could balance out? And wasn't it the hard line tactics of the EU commission that was attempting to stop this plan? I heard that the negotiations were a pot boiler.

 

In any event, this is something possibly historic, and I hope we don't all get sucked into a living game of Stratego on planet Earth.


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#7 TheOptician

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 08:34 PM

How a government can be so irresponsible as to give this decision to the average Jo on the street, who know absolutely nothing of the implications of leaving the EU is beyond me. It is a direct result of party politics - our government appeased the more radical/racist sections of society (UKIP) by promising a referendum - purely a strategic move to win votes and get elected. It is why party politics is corrupt because the agenda of the party as a whole becomes the focus.

A terrible day. My family are already looking around as to where to move (something that will now be much harder due to us not being in the EU).
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#8 KARAISKAKIS

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 08:51 PM

How a government can be so irresponsible as to give this decision to the average Jo on the street, who know absolutely nothing of the implications of leaving the EU is beyond me. It is a direct result of party politics - our government appeased the more radical/racist sections of society (UKIP) by promising a referendum - purely a strategic move to win votes and get elected. It is why party politics is corrupt because the agenda of the party as a whole becomes the focus.

A terrible day. My family are already looking around as to where to move (something that will now be much harder due to us not being in the EU).

 

I completely understand you my friend. Greece will follow very shortly the same way.

But if you look a place to move come in Athens. Lot of sun , ouzo , fun , girls and mostly we have the medicine against all the kind of financial problems : TO BE HAPPY whatever are the problems........ and play stratego :)


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#9 queenbee1

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 09:53 PM

Relax. Take a deep breath. What do you think will happen? I hear a lot of gloom and doom from those who wanted to remain. The markets are in turmoil because they are one huge betting parlor and most of the smart money positioned itself on the remain side. Ladbrokes had the "remain side" as a heavy favorite so is it any wonder that the markets did as well? Change is the only constant in the universe. If Karaiskakis can be happy in a country that for all intents and purposes is broke, then why worry? Pensions are a promise and not a guarantee.

 

Obviously more than half the voters are afraid of something. A referendum this big rarely happens. Do you even know how the EU came into being? We don't even know when and if the next great filter is coming. If you believe in a God it is all part of God's will unfolding. Nothing to get upset about. If you don't believe, you can't change it anyway. I have a saying that "I am standing on a bridge watching myself go by."

 

We are for the most part a tiny being on a small planet in a huge galaxy that is among one billion galaxies that make up the known universe. Modern man forgets that 100 years ago we still rode in wagons, buggies and on horses. No telephones or electric lines to our homes. I find it incredible that people take themselves so seriously. I admit I too have my moments when I just want to scream. Then when I am sitting or lying in the grass watching the clouds with my cat next to me and it just seems that life is awesome and I am lucky enough to be conscious of its beauty. In that moment I feel the sense of being awestruck.


Edited by queenbee1, 24 June 2016 - 10:19 PM.

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#10 Gwynplaine

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 10:10 PM

 "I am standing on a bridge watching myself go by."

This is beautiful.

 

Thank you.


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#11 queenbee1

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Posted 25 June 2016 - 05:32 AM

Although I took a philosophical path on Brexit, I don't want it to shut down the conversation. What are your fears and concerns? Did you hear that google searches for Americans relocating increased due to Trump? I think this opens the door for the collapse of the EU and for all countries to go back to sovereign status. We have two totally different people running for POTUS, but that is nothing compared to this. I would like to hear UK citizens concerns. It did get me to read how the EU came to be. I never gave it a second thought before and I assumed that this wasn't going to happen.



#12 Fairway

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Posted 25 June 2016 - 11:28 AM

All I know about this is that because the UK left, the stock market dropped. lol. (But not like it hasn't most of the time with Obama)


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#13 astros

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Posted 25 June 2016 - 11:47 AM

All I know about this is that because the UK left, the stock market dropped. lol. (But not like it hasn't most of the time with Obama)


No, the SP500 is up nearly triple from when Obama entered office and the stock market is up significantly as a whole.
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#14 Master Mind

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Posted 25 June 2016 - 02:31 PM

I actually don't understand why the stock market and the pound, and even the Euro and the dollar are decreasing. What is the impact of Brexit on them?


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#15 JCalla5373

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Posted 25 June 2016 - 02:47 PM

It's mostly to punish insolence. But any uncertainty tends to cause temporary panic. Keep calm and leave the EU! I can get behind almost any plan that involves decentralization.

#16 Lonello

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Posted 26 June 2016 - 08:09 AM

What I find funny is the Londoners elected The Boris into politics, as their major actually, although it all seemed a big joke back then that he ran as he was just a television-host for comedy (just like Trump entering the race by the way who was called a clown for a long time, during).

 

Then The Boris totally turned on them, as he got national popularity during his London time and he wanted Cameron's seat, which he now is going to get too. He totally killed the city of London with his Brexit campaign. London voted 75% Bremain for the most part.

 

A very ironic sacrifice he made, giving up his favorite city for his own benefits. That's what'll drive the populist. Watch for The Donald. He'll do the same. He's already just talking about his own properties and companies instead of the nation's interests.

 

He was just in Scotland after Brexit and only managed to speech about his nice golfcourts over there. The other week he couldn't stop talking about his personal lawsuits, about his famous University and all. The week before that it was all about his hotels in Abu Dhabi and what not. Etc. etc. He has yet to engage The Hillary on nation's policies, he simply refuses to talk US-vision... at least The Hillary shares her vision with the public.


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#17 Fairway

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Posted 26 June 2016 - 11:30 AM

No, the SP500 is up nearly triple from when Obama entered office and the stock market is up significantly as a whole.

called a joke. :)


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#18 Master Mind

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Posted 06 July 2016 - 05:14 PM

I actually don't understand why Farage, the leader of UKIP, gave up his position right after he and his party reached their biggest goal: leaving Europe. Is there an explanation for this?


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#19 queenbee1

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Posted 06 July 2016 - 09:26 PM

Did you know this is the third time he has done this? He wants to go out the hero. I will bet a lot of Brits don't think he is such a hero. So far the carnage is Cameron, Farage and Boris Johnson. It's not time for the panic dance by running around in circles with your hair on fire.  :lol: Although the Scots really got the shaft. 85% of them voted the Bremain. Look for a referendum for them to leave the UK and rejoin the EU. Politics is so much fun isn't it? I said I wasn't going to do this, but WTF was Bill Clinton thinking when he popped off for a visit on the tarmac at Phoenix Airport with the US attorney general? Is he trying to sabotage his wife's chances? The Donald's new slogan "I'm not Hillary Clinton."

 

It all makes me want to turn my back and walk away.



#20 trickz

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Posted 08 July 2016 - 12:28 PM

Yo,

 

 

I support the Brexit, many would call it a medieval guess.

But I think it's a good sign to leave this mess

and the reason lads that this treaty's blessed with evil pacts

is to get dictatorship so it needs to crash, bleed you brats

cuz' the greed to tax the people's cash

is feastin' fast plus it's releasin' The Beast instead!

Democracy?! I guess there's no need for that

so kleptocracy is the sequel lads

and it will do everythin' to get its prequel trashed.

The economy is collapsin' : everywhere you go, you see the feeble stats

and countries feel like they're losing their sovereignty with this illegal trash!

Lethal facts,...

thanks to The Beast in Brussels and its ego, that's...

actin' like Europe is united as one with a freezone pass!


Edited by trickz, 08 July 2016 - 12:28 PM.

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