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when 2 equal pieces attack


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#1 Albexoner

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 04:21 AM

I believe that the newer and better rules to this game say that when 2 equal players attack, the attacker should win. I have played both ways, and trust me, this way is much better. Is there a way to play this way, or has Stratego considered making this the rule? This would make strategy much better and games much more fun; I think it should be given serious thought.



#2 SuperDrew2k

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 12:06 PM

thats called playing with the "aggression" option

 

this site doesnt have an cool options like that

 

and many here forbid such impure thoughts


Hmm....i wonder where that marshal went

#3 trickz

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 02:25 PM

You said it right,...it's a cool OPTION.

I have no problem when they would implement this OPTION.

The more variations you could play, the better it is in my eyes.

However,...it will always remain as an OPTION.

In no way should this rule be implemented in the CLASSIC game cuz' if you do that, the entire concept of the game changes completely. 


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#4 xa1337

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 04:51 PM

You said it right,...it's a cool OPTION.

I have no problem when they would implement this OPTION.

The more variations you could play, the better it is in my eyes.

However,...it will always remain as an OPTION.

In no way should this rule be implemented in the CLASSIC game cuz' if you do that, the entire concept of the game changes completely. 

 

+1



#5 Albexoner

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 12:15 AM

Good points. It should remain as an option. Maybe when enough users join the site to have both ways going on they will be able to add that option and players can choose which way they want to play.



#6 GaryLShelton

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 03:05 AM

I'm okay with making anything an option.  But let's keep the classic game free of these corruptions.  

 

Now, rewarding aggression is a biased option in my opinion.  Why not reward non-aggression?  In many historical battles the aggressor has lost his butt.  Cavalry charges used to be the big thing in previous centuries, but with the advent of machine guns, the successful cavalry charge is pretty much a thing of the past.  As I stated in another post, you can check out Pickett's Charge in the Civil War as one example of an aggressive charge gone bad.

 

If it were possible to figure out, I would rather see cunning and bluffing rewarded.  Some of the bluffs that I have seen pulled off, and the strategy that put them in place, are incredible.  Of course, how to reward these is impossible to ascertain.  But they are much more useful in Stratego than being questionably aggressive.  Bombs in our game can end any aggression, while bluffing can tame the highest piece of your opponent.   Information is the money of the victorious.  How about rewarding the guy who has discovered the most information in the game?


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#7 iliketheesauce

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 10:50 PM

it's funny, because the "aggression" option actually rewards the player who sits and does nothing but defend



#8 GaryLShelton

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 01:45 AM

it's funny, because the "aggression" option actually rewards the player who sits and does nothing but defend

 

That's a bit of a koan, iliketheesauce.  Can you explain?  Thanks.  GLS



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#9 Midnightguy

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 04:31 AM

Many of the higher rated players tend to play defense and wait for the challenger to make the first attack.  Once they can locate your Marshall and General, they usually then make their counter attack or they wait for the attacker to just run their Marshall into a bomb.  Just some games can be a problem when both players refuse to give up anything and the game can drag on.



#10 trickz

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 11:16 AM

The higher the player is, the more you need to sacrifize to know where his boss is.

The lower the player is, the less you need to sacrifize to know where his boss is.

Normally it's like that.  Against lowbees I will pay with pleasure a sergeant or even a lieutenant to find out where his marsh is.

The chance of me getting at least a lieutenant or a captain and or higher with the general is more likely then.

 

Against very high silver players (above 700),....a lottery charge can help.

Why?  Cuz' they don't expect that from another silver player so you're unpredictable.

And he probably likes to play the disguise and bluff game so he needs to have movability, which means that the chance is not likely that his two front rows have bombs.

Of course it's a gamble but on the other side,....you're 5 to one 1 favourite to do so.

The chance that it goes wrong is 7/40 and I think that's less than If you wait and wait and try to play his game what he's used to.

I won many times against very high rated players because of a fearless lotto charge with the marsh on the sides.

If you can jack a lieutenant, a captain and a major or a colonel,...then the chance of defending this is quite high.

They also play the same each game,........the moment your marsh is known, they will bring out everything except their marsh.

So I'm totally not afraid for an incoming piece on the other side cuz' i already know it will be his general and I have time enough to react.  They don't like agressive determined players.

They want passive doubters cuz' they can exploit that very easily.

Against above 700 guys I'm usually all in,....it's the best tactic I think. :)


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#11 xa1337

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 12:05 PM

it's funny, because the "aggression" option actually rewards the player who sits and does nothing but defend

 

 

That's a bit of a koan, iliketheesauce.  Can you explain?  Thanks.  GLS

 

I think that joke about the appellation of the option "aggression" seems just more suitable for "defensive" players, but I could be wrong  ;)

 

 

 

Many of the higher rated players tend to play defense and wait for the challenger to make the first attack.  Once they can locate your Marshall and General, they usually then make their counter attack or they wait for the attacker to just run their Marshall into a bomb.  Just some games can be a problem when both players refuse to give up anything and the game can drag on.

 

Yes I've observed it. This is why, if implemented, "aggression" should remain an option. Because it is already "boring" and hard (IMO) to play against high ranked fortresses.



#12 PsychoPatty

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 04:31 PM

The higher the player is, the more you need to sacrifize to know where his boss is.

The lower the player is, the less you need to sacrifize to know where his boss is.

Normally it's like that.  Against lowbees I will pay with pleasure a sergeant or even a lieutenant to find out where his marsh is.

The chance of me getting at least a lieutenant or a captain and or higher with the general is more likely then.

 

Against very high silver players (above 700),....a lottery charge can help.

Why?  Cuz' they don't expect that from another silver player so you're unpredictable.

And he probably likes to play the disguise and bluff game so he needs to have movability, which means that the chance is not likely that his two front rows have bombs.

Of course it's a gamble but on the other side,....you're 5 to one 1 favourite to do so.

The chance that it goes wrong is 7/40 and I think that's less than If you wait and wait and try to play his game what he's used to.

I won many times against very high rated players because of a fearless lotto charge with the marsh on the sides.

If you can jack a lieutenant, a captain and a major or a colonel,...then the chance of defending this is quite high.

They also play the same each game,........the moment your marsh is known, they will bring out everything except their marsh.

So I'm totally not afraid for an incoming piece on the other side cuz' i already know it will be his general and I have time enough to react.  They don't like agressive determined players.

They want passive doubters cuz' they can exploit that very easily.

Against above 700 guys I'm usually all in,....it's the best tactic I think. :)

 

You've played 1500+ games and still don't know the odds..

 

The chance the spy is on 1 side is 50%, the chance you run into a bomb or a spy is 25% (once again.. 28 spaces x 7 pieces)

The chance you talk about lotto but uses scouts and all other lowbees is 100%

 

You don't lotto, you play agressive.. You don't run your marshall into unknown-none moved pieces.

 

Another reason you go all the way is simply because you already met the person on atleast 1 of your 2/4 accounts, you know their playstyle , and you know the "common bomb spaces"..

 

The fact you see it as "the best tactic"shows us how much you fear higher rated guys.. It also shows us you can't come up with a solution.

If you would only be brave enough to use one account, many of the higher rated persons would simply adjust their setups after reading your name (known as a charger),


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#13 trickz

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 07:48 PM

Patty,...with all the respect but what you say is just bogus dude :)

1) I don't know the odds you say? If that's the case, I would never made it to the silver league in the first place,...it's all about knowing your odds or you can forget it,..........you will notice this yourself cuz' you were silver as well few days ago.

2) The chance of the spy is 50 procent according to you,....that's just nonsense.

There are 40 squares and he can only be at one place,.....and who says the spy is positioned at one side?

What if the spy is on the third row in the middle?  It's a common place for top players you know,....the same as their marsh, also on the third row to disguise everything.  That's why a lotto charge is so affective against them.

The chance of facing the spy is 1/40 and the chance of running into a bomb is 6/40.

3) I don't use a single scout when I'm going for a lotterycharge.  I literally play LOTTO (I suppose you understand the meaning of this word so useless to say that I don't investigate at all).  So I don't play agressive,.....well yeah, of course I play agressive,....agressive LOTTO WITHOUT scouting first :)

4) You are right about this one,.......after a while you know how specific players play.  So I know against which player I can pull this off.  It's not random that I do this.  But I do have a list with players that I would lotto all day and by now, they should know I'm doing this :)

5) 2/4 accounts?  No, I have two accounts and one is an active account,.....and this account I don't use anymore for the moment (except for posting on the forum).

6) You say I fear high rated top players,............if I feared them, I would certainly NOT play the lotto, now would I?

My experience just tells it's the most effective way to deal with this guys. 

5/10 games I will win against them,...........the other five I will lose but that's calculated.

It's just no reality to try and win 8 or 9 games out of ten against those guys.  I know specific players are better and I've tried the hide and seek game many times and it didn't work against those people.

My lotterycharges have more chance than when I play normally against them.

Most high rated players never expect a blind charge from another silver player,..........so I also do it to be unpredictable.

If you say that's bogus,..........then may I remind you that Vincent De boer (more times worldchampion Stratego) also had a few lottery setups during his tournaments!  I'm not comparing myself to this legend of course but you act like not a single top player would ever play like this.   His general and marsh are on the open front for god's sake!

Here's the proof :

http://www.ultrastra....com/setups.php

Check out his second army,....marsh on the frontrow.

He did it to be unpredictable,............but I guess it's okay for hem to think like that but if a random silver player here does that, then it's not okay because you say so?  What a bs dude :)

Btw,....If I can't come up with a solution,....then tell me why I win 50 procent of my games against guys with a rating above the 700?

My lottery army is lotteryproof dude,.....it's designed to let him go out with the general as soon as possible without being able to harm me in anyway.  There's no way he can jack high pieces.  The only problem I could face that his side is bombed and then I'm fokked,............but I take that chance and most of the times I totally don't regret it as well.

7) Of course the players adapt to my style,.........some players know I'm charging directly cuz' I played them many times.

Punish for instance,..............he even dared to put his spy on the middle OPEN FRONT cuz' he had the feeling I was gonna charge with the marsh through the middle and he was right.  He came out with a major besides the spy and I took him out with the marsh and then he decided to move his spy before my marsh, as if he wanted to attack me.

I thought : "Yeah right, open front, just a blocker so I'm not reacting, he probably wants me to kill it so his spy can take me out".

But his thought and move were absolutely brilliant cuz' he knew I didn't expect his spy on the open front at all.

 

But I guess if he does that, then it's aloud,........although a spy on the open front is much more dangerous than charging directly with the marsh on the sides.

 

8) You don't have to tell me anything about ratings,........both my accounts are silver and with my other account I'm a high stable silver (for the moment that is :) ) and I had a top of 745, silver Lieutenant, place 19 in the league(but I fell off a bit now) so please don't say that I don't have solutions to climb up the ladder.  Every player adapts his game all the time.  I do this as well but you will never see me doing a lotto against bronze players.  I would only do this against very high players cuz' I know their playstyle.  I know they have movability and I know they're using lots of bluffs so I know I can easily steal some pieces which he usually doesn't expect.

I've played them so many times by now,........I think you have the right after 1500 games to judge for yourself what's aloud and what's not.  If it's such a bad idea, then I would immediately fall out of the silver league cuz' there is not much room to make mistakes there.

You should know that cuz' you're not silver anymore.  Or maybe you are back again now? I don't know.

I'm now at 686 so I don't think it's that bad.

9) It's all about evolving your game,..........with Trickz it took me more than 800 games to become silver.

With my other account, it took me only 61 games to become silver plus I went a lot higher than with Trickz (Trickz' top rating was 677 and I never got it back again).  Now I'm cruising around the 700 and I'm very stable.

I win some, I lose some but I'm always around the 700 now.

Of course you never know how this might evolve but at least I'm making a big process and I know I can handle the most players out here.  Of course there are also players who are really from another level, which I can't beat, no matter which tactic I use btw,........Punish and Spiff are two examples of players who are superior.

And Satan of course,..........but except from them I have beaten almost every player out there.

Of course they have beaten me too, no doubt about that. 

But the fact is,.......I'm not a simple noob who's easily destroyed.  I even decided games against those players where I was a marsh or even a general behind and still I won!

10) I never fear a player.  I do realize that some players are exceptional good and that my chance is very small but I don't fear them.

The more fear you show against them and the more passive you play,.....the higher the chance that you will lose hopelessly.

It's against those type of players that I dare to risk more, fearless actually.

 

 

It's just how you look at the things,....you have to place it in a perspective and my current rating proofs I'm on the right track.

Don't know if it's possible but my goal is to enter the top 10 of this site.

To stay there is another question but I feel I can make the top 10 and that would be quite an achievement.

 

 

Bye Cheryl lover ;)


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#14 SuperDrew2k

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 08:01 PM

cool story bro

 

tl;dr


Hmm....i wonder where that marshal went

#15 bmende

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 01:38 AM

I believe that the newer and better rules to this game say that when 2 equal players attack, the attacker should win. I have played both ways, and trust me, this way is much better. Is there a way to play this way, or has Stratego considered making this the rule? This would make strategy much better and games much more fun; I think it should be given serious thought.

I am curious why you think this is a better option. Someone said that this actually rewards the defensive player, and I would think that would actually be possibly correct, because I would think no one would really want to bring their pieces in "attack range" of the other opponent.


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#16 GaryLShelton

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 03:49 AM

Wow, this is an old thread.  Good point, bmende.  I think that's precisely what would happen.  I can see all these players hesitating....

 

Also, I notice that earlier in this same thread, from all the way back in May of 2013, I made a post which I still agree with, mostly.

 

http://forum.strateg...tack/#entry3673

 

It's not always true that the aggressor has won in the history of warfare.  

 

But for our game, your point, bmende, is a stronger case for not rewarding aggression. specifically.  

 

Gary



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#17 DarthRemark

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 03:55 PM

Attacker wins is a huge change and would be a different game.  There are many Stratego variants that use that rule though.  The most popular is probably Ultimate Lightening (UL), which unfortunately is not available here.



#18 jensneuij

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Posted 31 October 2014 - 12:05 PM

Not a change to the game I'd like much but as an option sure.



#19 Sohal

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Posted 31 October 2014 - 01:51 PM

already difficult to get a game here whithout any option, no need to make it worst.






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