Dude you realize its their job and legal to investigate families that have been reported to child services. Then they have to get a court order to remove them from their house. Its a whole process that our govt has set up to protect our children as best they can.
That is factually incorrect. There are three ways for CPS to be allowed to remove a child from their home.
1. As you state, a court order signed by a judge allows CPS to remove a child and place them in state approved care.
2. Emergency removals, where there are exigent circumstances relative to the health of the child
3. With parental consent.
I'll say more about #2 and #3 in another post. Separately, when you say protect OUR children - I hope you mean in an abstract way. Because my children are MY CHILDREN, your children are YOUR CHILDREN, my neighbor's children are HIS/HER CHILDREN. While I try to be a good neighbor and help those around me, it is not my place to tell my neighbor how to raise their children. It is my place and responsibility to raise my children as best as I can - and my moral obligation to help those around me. I may feel my neighbor is too lenient or too strict with their children - I may even in a nice way suggest that something different every now and then can work also - but it is not for me to judge their parental choices.
Youre making it seem like they are going around kidnapping kids for no reason. No they are kids that have been reported and then they are doing their jobs according to the law.
Almost correct. I am saying that CPS is going around and traumatizing families by kidnapping their children - based on perceived neglect by one CPS official. They are determining families to be guilty prior to being found innocent. How does that fit in any way into due process?
And I disagree that they are doing their jobs according to the law. According to the law. When a CPS agent informs the parent that they are opening an investigation - they legally must tell them what they have been accused of. This rarely happens. The agent informs them of either abuse or neglect - those are categories - they are not specific allegations.
Secondly, CPS officials do not have the right to enter anyone's home without a warrant. This is rarely if ever disclosed by the CPS officials. Why? Because under the 4th amendment all warrantless searches are presumed illegal (except under exigent circumstances). So the officials make it appear that they have this right - often by having a police officer (who also needs a warrant) come with them. It creates the appearance of legitimacy and it also creates fear - making it more likely the parent will comply with the REQUEST to search the home. By accepting the REQUEST, the parent has now waived their 4th amendment protection. (but how many poor parents know that?).
Would you rather when abuse is reported they just not investigate it then? What if some kid is getting abused and they just hand them back to their parents to get abused again?
Again, you confuse abuse with neglect. Abuse has three categories, physical abuse, sexual abuse, psychological abuse. All three of these result in almost all cases where CPS believes the accusation - in criminal proceedings. Evidence is collected, witnesses sought, and criminal cases are built. In a minority of cases, physical abuse will be deemed as a correctable action and a CPS plan of support services and requirements will be put together and the parent told that if they fulfill the plan they may be able to get their child back in the future. Obviously, sexual abuse (that CPS believes) is processed through the criminal court system.
Neglect on the other hand rarely involves any criminal charges. What the charge really is - is poor parenting or poor parenting decisions. And this is the category that rips apart the vast majority of the families that are totally innocent. What is the standard that parents have to follow? Oh, the standard is whatever ANYONE WHO PICKS UP THE PHONE AND CALLS CPS decides it is.
That is a standard no parent can meet.
So I would expect that CPS are professionals that should be able to determine what are allegations of actual abuse. And what are allegations of parental neglect. When the neglect is parental decision making or approach, I would expect them to not investigate unless the allegation is something severe.
Will CPS ever be able to catch every instance of abuse - No. Heck, the Foster Care system is rife with abuse (and those supposed to also be the good guys!). So it is a false narrative that says you must choose between abuse and destroying families. No matter how many families you tear apart there will still be abuse you don't catch.
The 33,000 kids are not being kidnapped. They are legally and justly being investigated and then given back when there is no evidence of abuse. What else are the supposed to do?
Well, yes they are actually being kidnapped. Kidnapping is the act of seizing, confining, abducting or carrying away a person by force or fraud. These children are by HHS's own admission being seized from their parents - against their will - with the force of law. Later, in tens of thousands of instances each year - HHS admits they were wrong. So if they were wrong, their action was fraudulent - then the action was kidnapping. Children are seized against their and their parent's will, they are taken away by force - and the grounds for the actions prove to be fraudulent.
Just because its the "good" bureaucrats doesn't change what takes place.
And I disagree that they are legally being investigated. As I mentioned previously, CPS officials are not forthcoming with those they investigate. They do not inform them of their rights. They often take actions to make it appear those being investigated DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHTS THEY ACTUALLY POSESS. The presumption is guilt, not innocence. At no time is the parent allowed to face their accuser.
When CPS obtains a warrant to remove a child prior to engaging with the parent, the only item submitted to the judge is the CPS official's report. The parent is given NO OPPORTUNITY TO FACE THEIR ACCUSER, NOR REFUTE SUPPOSED ALLEGATIONS AGAINST THEM! Only later, when physical custody of their children has been removed, will there be a hearing in which the accused parent can ask the judge to return their children. This is a total violation of due process.
Justly - thats an amazing adjective to use. Its just to wrongly remove 30,000+ children from their parents every year? I think you'll have a tough time convincing any parent that has their child seized - when they have done nothing wrong - that the act of kidnapping their child is "JUSTLY".
I am glad you at least realize these children are being seized with no evidence of any abuse whatsoever. And returned only when it becomes evident there is no abuse or neglect. That means you at least realize that any CPS official can determine you to be guilty until proven innocent. And I don't believe there is any room in our justice system for that approach.
What else are they supposed to do? Lets stick with some simple things. How about our legislature does the brave thing and removes the requirement that every single call to CPS mandates an investigation. And agents use common sense and experience to determine how best to use their resources. Remove parental decisions as a form of neglect. Its up to the parent to decide if their son/daughter is old enough to walk to the park unsupervised. Its up to the parent to decide if their daughter can sit in the car for 5 minutes. Its up to the parent to decide if their two 9 and 11 year old children can be trusted at home for 20 minutes.
Remove being poor as a form of bad parenting. Poor parents by necessity leave their children in different environments than rich parents. That often includes community settings. Being sent to the park to play. Being sent to the apartment complex parking lot to play. These are not acts of neglect. They are acts of necessity. Nor are they somehow more dangerous than in the past. And a strong argument can be made that they actually help a child to develop social intelligence and awareness.
You must be able to face your accuser. Anonymous claims in the area of neglect must be done away with. If some protections need to be kept for allegations of sexual abuse and physical abuse - fine. No child whose parent is accused only of neglect - should be able to be removed from the home by CPS unless the parent has his/her day in court. And the standard of proof should be beyond a reasonable doubt. (not today's preponderance of the evidence).
Laws need to be changed to differentiate between a "professionals" responsibility to report sexual abuse and neglect. The standard for neglect should be very high. CPS should be spending their resources on helping victims of abuse - not making determinations on specific parental decisions or approaches.
CPS officials should only be allowed to investigate the specific claim. Far too often, what actually takes place is the investigation is a way to add lots of little things to the original accusation. Dirty home, evidence of alcohol consumption, children up late at night. It becomes a form of piling on instead of determining if the accusation is true.
Finally, CPS officials should be required to tell people of their rights - including the right to not permit them to investigate their home without a warrant. And CPS should be required to record all interviews with children - with parent's having the right to those recordings. Both of those will greatly aid poor parents and protect from overzealous agents damaging children.
There is a lot more but those would be a good start.