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#801 steelers

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Posted 20 July 2018 - 11:20 PM

Yea, he's said Russia is responsible.  He's also said he doesn't think they are numerous times.  He does what always does, talks out both sides of his mouth, and changes his truth based on the audience and his mood.  Can you really see nothing wrong with the way he acts?  I'm on the left side of the spectrum on many things, but I can criticize democratic presidents and applaud republican presidents when it is called for.  I try to keep an open mind and not be driven by partisanship.  A political party isn't a sports team to root for and have undying loyalty towards.  There are too many people on both sides of the aisle that think their party (or Trump himself since he basically created a new party) is right about everything and the other side is wrong about everything.


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#802 astros

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Posted 20 July 2018 - 11:23 PM

Yea, he's said Russia is responsible.  He's also said he doesn't think they are numerous times.  He does what always does, talks out both sides of his mouth, and changes his truth based on the audience and his mood.  Can you really see nothing wrong with the way he acts?  I'm on the left side of the spectrum on many things, but I can criticize democratic presidents and applaud republican presidents when it is called for.  I try to keep an open mind and not be driven by partisanship.  A political party isn't a sports team to root for and have undying loyalty towards.  There are too many people on both sides of the aisle that think their party (or Trump himself since he basically created a new party) is right about everything and the other side is wrong about everything.


You are not going to win with him. The guy is a zealot when it comes to Trump's cult of personality. A growing problem in our country is that there are too many people on both sides who are fanttically loyal to their party and don't try to understand the other side.
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#803 Fks

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 01:08 AM

I don't understand why you view being loyal to your president is wrong Steelers. Saying VP Pence who is part of the establishment would be better than Trump for you personally seems pretty whacked as I am sure he is against almost every policy you hold.

Trump is smart and is actually working towards a better America. If the dems open up there eyes for a second instead of just instantly disagreeing with President Trump we will achieve that faster.
FBI is biased against Trump. So I really couldn't care less if he denounces them. Watch the hearing of FBI Agent Peter Strzok. The Democrats defending a FBI Agent why?
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#804 steelers

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 01:31 AM

Obviously we'll never agree on this stuff, I just suggest to have a more open mind and not have all your principles decided by who you support.  I think Barack Obama was a good president, but I am overall disappointed with the way Obamacare has turned out. I liked Bill Clinton, but I think he was a womanizer.  If you support Trump, that's fine.  But don't let it make you blind to his faults.  It's OK to think he's doing a good job, but don't defend every thing he does just because it's him, or condemn everything the other side does just because it's them.


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#805 astros

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 05:40 AM

There are three main reasons that some teenagers are drawn to Trump:

1. The man is foul-mouthed and makes fun of others. For teens that are insecure or social outcasts, he offers them a way to vocalize their resentment of a society through his belittlement of women and liberal culture.

2. He attacks established customs and protocols. Teenagers are emerging in their independence but are still constantly given rules by their parents, teachers and coaches. Supporting Trump offers them away to rebel against the status quo and the rules imposed on them.

3. The muppet is successful. Despite his many character flaws, Trump has lots of money (allegedly), power and sleeps with porn stars. All this makes him an appealing role model for teenage boys who may not be able to attain such things themselves.
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#806 Don_Homer

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 11:33 AM

 I liked Bill Clinton, but I think he was a womanizer.  

Is this so special compared to other presidents? 


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#807 steelers

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 01:19 PM

Is this so special compared to other presidents? 

There were other presidents (like Kennedy) who were unfaithful also, but I was keeping the examples to the presidents I've lived through.  Clinton and Trump acted badly with women.  To the best of my knowledge, the other presidents I've lived through were faithful and did not have any kind of reputation for womanizing.



#808 Fairway

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 01:52 PM

I don't understand why you view being loyal to your president is wrong Steelers. Saying VP Pence who is part of the establishment would be better than Trump for you personally seems pretty whacked as I am sure he is against almost every policy you hold.

Trump is smart and is actually working towards a better America. If the dems open up there eyes for a second instead of just instantly disagreeing with President Trump we will achieve that faster.
FBI is biased against Trump. So I really couldn't care less if he denounces them. Watch the hearing of FBI Agent Peter Strzok. The Democrats defending a FBI Agent why?

Being loyal to your president is not wrong, but Steelers is saying that he greatly dislikes Trump's personality and way he handles himself and most of his policies etc. etc. Which is his opinion, and he has as much a right to hold that opinion as you do yours. 

 

I too would actually prefer Pence to Trump. After Trump won the GOP nomination by basically lying about and bullying the other 16 candidates on the stage, I was really turned off, but I thought that Trump's addition to Pence on his ticket was a wonderful choice. Pence is a very thoughtful man and I agree with him probably on over 90% of issues. Like it or not, Pence is more conservative than Trump. Trump is a conservative, but more of a populist as well- fiscally, he's in the center and socially he's mostly conservative. 

 

I agree that the top FBI officials are bias against Trump. For the most part they are Never-Trumper GOPers. Which is another group that really gets under my skin. It's all about being objective, like the traits of a good judge. The "Trump cult", as Steelers says, blindly agrees with everything he says, while the never-Trumpers and liberals instantly criticize everything he does. It's all about finding that good balance in the middle.

 

I disagree that Pence is "apart of the establishment" (or as Trump would say "in the swamp" :D) as his addition to Trump's ticket pretty much erases any association of establishment. On the GOP campaign Trump was the least establishment candidate up there. He wasn't my first or my second or my third choice etc. etc. out of the 17 but he was the GOP nominee and professed to be more conservative than Hillary, and I decided to support him in the election when he added Pence, who again was a great choice. I didn't like Trump's attitude or how he won the GOP nomination, but when you had 16 soft pillows and 1 hard pillow in a store, the hard pillow will always have the most sales (or votes).

 

 

There are three main reasons that some teenagers are drawn to Trump:

1. The man is foul-mouthed and makes fun of others. For teens that are insecure or social outcasts, he offers them a way to vocalize their resentment of a society through his belittlement of women and liberal culture.

2. He attacks established customs and protocols. Teenagers are emerging in their independence but are still constantly given rules by their parents, teachers and coaches. Supporting Trump offers them away to rebel against the status quo and the rules imposed on them.

3. The muppet is successful. Despite his many character flaws, Trump has lots of money (allegedly), power and sleeps with porn stars. All this makes him an appealing role model for teenage boys who may not be able to attain such things themselves.

I think that this is a very interesting post. Considering that younger Americans are very liberal, as well as millennials, I am willing to bet that a large majority of teenagers supported Hillary in the election. Take this: https://imgur.com/a/9bqXiZU

 

That is a screenshot of a poll on "Edmodo" website- which is basically a website where teachers post online assignments and homework. During the 2016 election Edmodo had a poll on their website in which students 6-12th grade could vote on who they wanted to become President, with the only options being Trump and Hillary (no 3rd parties). As you can see above among highschool students in the US Hillary defeated Trump 63:37, nearly a 2:1 margin. Granted the sample size was only 500,000, but this has to have some weight.

 

As for the content of your post itself, none of these are the reasons I supported Trump, so perhaps Fks would be willing to answer as well. As for "sleeps with porn stars".. this has not been proven more than Hillary's hiring of hitmen to make her political enemies commit "suicide".

 

Is this so special compared to other presidents? 

lol  :lol:  we're not really sure

 

 

 

 

As for Trump loyalists that Steelers points out I cannot really answer for them as I do not consider myself one. I support him but don't agree with him on some issues. I'm also not a huge fan on the way he conducts himself sometimes but certainly not nearly as bad as in the GOP primaries.


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#809 steelers

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 02:02 PM

Being loyal to your president is not wrong, but Steelers is saying that he greatly dislikes Trump's personality and way he handles himself and most of his policies etc. etc. Which is his opinion, and he has as much a right to hold that opinion as you do yours. 

 

I too would actually prefer Pence to Trump. After Trump won the GOP nomination by basically lying about and bullying the other 16 candidates on the stage, I was really turned off, but I thought that Trump's addition to Pence on his ticket was a wonderful choice. Pence is a very thoughtful man and I agree with him probably on over 90% of issues. Like it or not, Pence is more conservative than Trump. Trump is a conservative, but more of a populist as well- fiscally, he's in the center and socially he's mostly conservative. 

 

I agree that the top FBI officials are bias against Trump. For the most part they are Never-Trumper GOPers. Which is another group that really gets under my skin. It's all about being objective, like the traits of a good judge. The "Trump cult", as Steelers says, blindly agrees with everything he says, while the never-Trumpers and liberals instantly criticize everything he does. It's all about finding that good balance in the middle.

 

I disagree that Pence is "apart of the establishment" (or as Trump would say "in the swamp" :D) as his addition to Trump's ticket pretty much erases any association of establishment. On the GOP campaign Trump was the least establishment candidate up there. He wasn't my first or my second or my third choice etc. etc. out of the 17 but he was the GOP nominee and professed to be more conservative than Hillary, and I decided to support him in the election when he added Pence, who again was a great choice. I didn't like Trump's attitude or how he won the GOP nomination, but when you had 16 soft pillows and 1 hard pillow in a store, the hard pillow will always have the most sales (or votes).

 

 

I think that this is a very interesting post. Considering that younger Americans are very liberal, as well as millennials, I am willing to bet that a large majority of teenagers supported Hillary in the election. Take this: https://imgur.com/a/9bqXiZU

 

That is a screenshot of a poll on "Edmodo" website- which is basically a website where teachers post online assignments and homework. During the 2016 election Edmodo had a poll on their website in which students 6-12th grade could vote on who they wanted to become President, with the only options being Trump and Hillary (no 3rd parties). As you can see above among highschool students in the US Hillary defeated Trump 63:37, nearly a 2:1 margin. Granted the sample size was only 500,000, but this has to have some weight.

 

As for the content of your post itself, none of these are the reasons I supported Trump, so perhaps Fks would be willing to answer as well. As for "sleeps with porn stars".. this has not been proven more than Hillary's hiring of hitmen to make her political enemies commit "suicide".

 

lol  :lol:  we're not really sure

 

 

 

 

As for Trump loyalists that Steelers points out I cannot really answer for them as I do not consider myself one. I support him but don't agree with him on some issues. I'm also not a huge fan on the way he conducts himself sometimes but certainly not nearly as bad as in the GOP primaries.

Well thought out post.  I don't agree with several of your points, but I respect that you are making up your own mind about each issue.


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#810 astros

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 02:30 PM

Fairway, I am aware that the majority of young people hate Trump. I was proposing possible reasons why the others might support him, particularly his most fanatical follwoers.

As for the porn stars, while I do not doubt it happened, it is unproven. However, I think the muppet's talk about his sexual conquests and marriages to models does help him with some teenage boys.

Edited by astros, 21 July 2018 - 06:47 PM.

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#811 GaryLShelton

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 03:26 PM

Can I just Like a signature? :)


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#812 Fks

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 05:05 PM

I missed the part of where you wrote about Bill Clinton. Lol.
It's crazy to compare the 2 on woman. You like an impeached president, goes to show where your judgment is.

Astros I think that's absurd. Majority of teens hate Trump they're ok but if you like him it's because he hangs around with pornstars. If you like him you a social outcast and insecure.
I happen to be Anti establishment which is a reason President Trump has my vote. This doesn't have to be solely based off me being a teen.

Steelers this is why I believe you have it backwards.
Look at Astros satements. I did not mention you where possibly insecure or like pornstars. I said the Media is ruining your image of the president. But Astros went a step further. You HAVE to be insecure or a social outcast or be jealous of trumps success with money and the woman he hangs out with and that is why teens support Trump.

Just like according to the media the thousands of people changing sides from democrat to republican in the walk away movement are Russia Bots. Give me a break. Fake news.


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#813 astros

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 05:16 PM

I see those as the three of the biggest reasons. One does not need to fit all three. For instance, based on his last post, Fks falls under number two.

Edited by astros, 21 July 2018 - 05:16 PM.

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#814 Fks

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 05:55 PM

I see those as the three of the biggest reasons. One does not need to fit all three. For instance, based on his last post, Fks falls under number two.

I have no rules to rebel against. Which is why I said you could be anti establishment if you are an adult and is not limited to being a teen.
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#815 steelers

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 10:30 PM

Fks, my argument is that you're not giving an inch on anything.  From your posts on here, everything Trump is great and everything Democrat is bad.  I've given several examples where I didn't agree with politicians I supported.  Your arguments would gain a lot more credibility if you were willing to concede some points on him.  



#816 Fks

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Posted 22 July 2018 - 12:24 AM

Lie about some of my beliefs to make me seem more believable? No Steelers that doesn't make any sense atleast to me. Either my arguments are good or they are bad.
Just because the MSM shows Trump in a bad light doesn't me we all have to see him that way. You mentioned you did not like that President Trump picked to side with Putin over USA intelligence. I showed you where he did mention he thought Russia and other countries meddled. You then said he goes both ways and is a liar it seems you are just anti Trump on everything. He was put in a tough spot in Russia and I am totally fine with how it played out. If you want to cry for the next 2 years about it, that is your choice.
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#817 Nortrom

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Posted 22 July 2018 - 12:31 AM

 next 2 6 years about it, that is your choice.

 

Fixed that little typo for you.


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#818 steelers

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Posted 22 July 2018 - 01:20 AM

I give up.  If you think literally every single thing Trump does is right and every single thing the left does is wrong, there's obviously no convincing you otherwise.  I gave several examples of where I was disappointed by politicians I supported.  I think the left is correct sometimes, and the right is correct sometimes.  But I don't give undying loyalty to any politician.  If I feel a president is wrong about something, I'll say so, regardless of party.  All I'm saying is to not be so inflexible.  Decide what you think is right about each issue or circumstance, and judge politicians based on that.  Don't be so loyal to a politician that you wait for him to decide his position on something, and then make that your position.  I'd consider it a small victory of you just named 1 thing that you think is bad about him or 1 policy he got wrong.  If you want something Trump did good from me, I think he did a good job getting those 3 prisoners released from North Korea.  I don't know if that would have happened if someone else was president.  



#819 Fairway

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Posted 22 July 2018 - 01:25 AM

I agree with the above post. It's all about objectivity. Not partisanship. I consider myself anti-establishment like Fks because I don't think either establishment (partisanship) has high on its list of priorities what needs to happen regarding this country. Trump has delivered real results, like the prisoners released you mention, and the Tax cuts (whether you agree with them or not), but he's not prefect and I disagree with him on several issues. However if Fks says that his views line perfectly up with Trump's and didn't change when Trump became president, that's unlikely but certainly possible. If that is what he says then I believe him. In that case Fks and I disagree on several issues as I disagree with several issues with Trump. But as long as someone's isn't blindly loyal to someone or something, or blindly opposed to someone or something, then I'm ok with it. I take every issue and event objectively and decide for myself my view on it.


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#820 Fks

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Posted 22 July 2018 - 02:20 AM

I give up.  If you think literally every single thing Trump does is right and every single thing the left does is wrong, there's obviously no convincing you otherwise.  I gave several examples of where I was disappointed by politicians I supported.  I think the left is correct sometimes, and the right is correct sometimes.  But I don't give undying loyalty to any politician.  If I feel a president is wrong about something, I'll say so, regardless of party.  All I'm saying is to not be so inflexible.  Decide what you think is right about each issue or circumstance, and judge politicians based on that.  Don't be so loyal to a politician that you wait for him to decide his position on something, and then make that your position.  I'd consider it a small victory of you just named 1 thing that you think is bad about him or 1 policy he got wrong.  If you want something Trump did good from me, I think he did a good job getting those 3 prisoners released from North Korea.  I don't know if that would have happened if someone else was president.  

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