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Endless Shufflers


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#1 Moriarty

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Posted 31 March 2016 - 10:10 PM

Here we compile a list of the endless shufflers who never attack. Although not against the rules, it would be considered bad sportsmanship in my opinion.


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#2 strangeplayer

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Posted 31 March 2016 - 10:16 PM

If you dislike players who shuffle that's your prerogative, but I can not understand why shuffling would objectively be considered poor sportsmanship.

Shuffling, lotto and defensive are all valid ways to play Stratego.
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#3 Moriarty

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Posted 31 March 2016 - 10:23 PM

If you dislike players who shuffle that's your prerogative, but I can not understand why shuffling would objectively be considered poor sportsmanship.

Shuffling, lotto and defensive are all valid ways to play Stratego.

They are extremely frustration


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#4 Enigma

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Posted 01 April 2016 - 12:08 AM

It's best to have a good strategy against this type of player, as it is a common (legal) style of play.  A few recommendations:

 

-Slow down and be patient.  The kiss of death against this type of opponent is rushing your moves and being forced into making a mistake.  This opponent is willing to endure a long game so if you want to win you have to be willing to slow down (if not, you can play at gravon with a game timer).

 

-Keep all your bombs in the back 2 rows if you're confident they aren't going to attack.  

 

-Attack from one side and get info.  Find a 7 or 8.  Then take a calculated risk - decoding their setup and taking a few risks is the main way to defeat this style of play.

 

-Don't get too much info.  Don't try to remember more than 2 or 3 pieces at one time.  If you forget pieces you are going to lose.  

 

-Be confident that you'll win.  Continuous shuffling is not a good style of play in general.  None of the best players play like this because strong players attack well and defeat this strategy pretty easily. 


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#5 The Prof

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Posted 01 April 2016 - 01:21 AM

Another thing you can take advantage of against overly defensive players is that they tend not to call bluffs.  


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#6 Moriarty

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Posted 01 April 2016 - 01:24 AM

Morias is a fair player and I do not get too frustrated at shufflers as my style includes attacking now. (although I understand defensive players easily do as they feel uncomfortable attacking) Here is a video of me playing morias in our masters Divisions game.

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=pP6vB5Elhcs


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#7 GaryLShelton

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Posted 01 April 2016 - 03:02 AM

It's best to have a good strategy against this type of player, as it is a common (legal) style of play.  A few recommendations:


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#8 tobermoryx

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Posted 01 April 2016 - 03:06 AM

It takes 2 to shuffle .

 

Usually players that complain about it are wanting to play a cautious game themselves.

 

I don't recall Manning2Cruz complaining about shuffling , as it was not possible to do that against his style of play.

 

Shapsite and the German lady are probably the most 'notorious' for playing like that , i like to play them though . As said it is a perfectly valid style . You either have to attack them from the start or show a lot of patience yourself.


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#9 GaryLShelton

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Posted 01 April 2016 - 03:07 AM

Nice video, Moriarty, and good instruction on playing a shuffler.
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#10 tobermoryx

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Posted 01 April 2016 - 03:11 AM

Against Shapsite 4 of the games i played lasted 90 ,89 ,68 and 64 minutes.

 

The shorter ones usually about 45-50 minutes.

 

The only one that was  less than 30 mins was when i decided i just didn't have time to play this guy and attempted a Marshal blitz approach and i lost very quickly.

 

I played Anna1984 for 99 minutes.

 

The Shaman is another one for very long games though he might sometimes attack with a strong piece just when you think he is not gonna risk anything.


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#11 tobermoryx

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Posted 01 April 2016 - 03:15 AM

I wouldn't really say Morias was 'a shuffler' in that game compared to the others i mention.

 

It was a good game actually ,with Morias playing defensively but Moriarty getting the advantage with some clever moves.

 

Not that i am against the real 'shufflers' as i quite like to play them.


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#12 Moriarty

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Posted 01 April 2016 - 04:09 AM

I wouldn't really say Morias was 'a shuffler' in that game compared to the others i mention.

 

It was a good game actually ,with Morias playing defensively but Moriarty getting the advantage with some clever moves.

 

Not that i am against the real 'shufflers' as i quite like to play them.

Eh, if I sat there and did nothing he would continue to shift his pieces inside his army.

 

I think Silverhammer ran into one of the real shufflers and I remember him being really frustrated :)


Edited by Moriarty, 01 April 2016 - 04:12 AM.

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#13 Astros 17

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Posted 01 April 2016 - 04:32 AM

Against Shapsite 4 of the games i played lasted 90 ,89 ,68 and 64 minutes.

 

The shorter ones usually about 45-50 minutes.

 

The only one that was  less than 30 mins was when i decided i just didn't have time to play this guy and attempted a Marshal blitz approach and i lost very quickly.

 

I played Anna1984 for 99 minutes.

 

The Shaman is another one for very long games though he might sometimes attack with a strong piece just when you think he is not gonna risk anything.

Shapsite doesn't change his setup.

 

TheShaman is a pain to play because he shuffles and plays with some intuition.


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#14 sevenseas

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Posted 01 April 2016 - 09:51 AM

Shufflers are easy to beat you just have to be patient.


TheShaman is the toughest one to break through because he sometimes calls bluffs/predict where you will attack.
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#15 kokokitty

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Posted 01 April 2016 - 05:35 PM

The problem is not about shuffling. The problem is the lack of a game timer/autodraw system that will galvanize u to attack a shuffler, honing ur offensive skill in the process.



#16 kokokitty

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Posted 01 April 2016 - 05:40 PM

Like what tobermoryx said about M2C..

 

I......didn't even get the chance to shuffle against him -_-

 

Hopefully I meet M2C again. I want a rematch.



#17 Fairway

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Posted 01 April 2016 - 08:33 PM

Like what tobermoryx said about M2C..

 

I......didn't even get the chance to shuffle against him -_-

 

Hopefully I meet M2C again. I want a rematch.

He has disappeared from the world of stratego... 


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#18 despy

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 01:28 AM

Played an almost 2 hour game with Ironmann - came across this old thread looking to see if other people had frustrations playing him. I took a piece on each of the side aisles, and then he did nothing but shuffle with those empty spaces within his 40-square block, probably for 20 minutes or so while I moved around preparing to break through.

 

I decided to try out the strategy that Napoleon mentioned M2C followed (col on sides, gen down the mid) - but I found it tough to get much of an advantage because nothing in the back 2 rows had moved. It ended up being a very close game and I pulled out the win with a little luck.

 

I'm really curious though how strong aggressive players find shufflers easy to beat - indeed in my game, since Ironmann didn't ever initiate a single attack, I wasn't kept on my toes in the standard way, but I still found it difficult to figure out how to get through. I'd love to see a game in which an aggressive player demolishes a strong shuffler (without lotto), in case anyone has a link!

 

Cheers


Edited by despy, 05 April 2017 - 01:29 AM.


#19 Losermaker

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 10:54 AM

As someone who occasionally plays aggressive here is my experience on why shufflers are 'easier'.

 

When you play someone who is a good defensive player this does not just mean that they are shufflers, they move and set traps but they keep the game flowing, these are in fact harder to attack IMO. The reason for this is that defensive players give themselves more room to move, they find out some info first, lose a few pieces maybe for info, then play defensive with some bluff etc. Shufflers however shuffle early on, this means that they still have a lot of pieces in their base, meaning less room to move. So if you know what you are doing, once you make a successful beginning to the attack, they are trapped up in their base easier, and their higher pieces often cant get out of the way. But you have to be quick and do it when you are totally ready to make a good attack (don't rush it, they will shuffle until you are ready) and once in make maximum impact with it.

 

Hope some of this makes sense.

Cheers,

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Edited by Losermaker, 05 April 2017 - 10:55 AM.

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#20 Unladen Swallow

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 06:06 PM

There are 2 types of shufflers:

 

Pure Shufflers

These players will -never- attack. They will move the same 2 pieces back and forth and wait for you to make a move. These are the easiest shufflers to defeat, for reasons that Losermaker already explained above. They will not call bluffs or play with any intuition, so it is easier to trap this type of player. 

 

Pure shufflers are: Lost Account, Anna 1984, Peterjohnson6388,  Shapsite

 

Defensive Shuffler

These players are more defensive. They are more predictable, but they play with more intuition. The defensive shufflers are capable of calling bluffs, or even initiating an attack if it is necessary (during endgame, or when losing). These are a lot harder to defeat because they recognise when you are coming to trap them and are sometimes able to escape. 

 

Defensive shufflers: Napoleon 1er, MTinsley, Sadistic, The Shaman,

 

Versus this type of player you have to be more cautious. If you invest too much you will have difficulty getting pieces back without lotto. I don't have much advice here except, these players will normally protect everything with 2 ranks up. Pure shufflers will bluff more. You also have to have some patience (Which I lack, unfortunately) to pluck away at their setup. Recklessness usually does not work versus a defensive shuffler. 


Edited by Unladen Swallow, 05 April 2017 - 06:19 PM.

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