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#41 Lonello

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 09:07 AM

Gary, it's funny you're representing the 1% here now while normally I do. Your 1% is that of the Denialgroups. There's just 1% of all experts to be found that still deny climat change is caused by mankind as there is just 1% of experts saying the Earth can be just 6000 years old. Normally I would take your side, but here I'll join the 99% ;)!!


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#42 queenbee1

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 07:05 PM

Isn't it interesting that that global cooling period matched exactly the lifetime of one of our favorite artists, queenbee1? John Lennon, the #9 Dream guy, was born on October 9th, 1940 and died on December 9th (Liverpool time) in 1980.

That is a coincidence. I loved JL's music and were be alive he would be alarmed that more isn't being done to change human behavior. What exactly are you defending Gary. That we can just go about our merry way of life without any consideration for the wildlife we are displacing? That Humans have no bearing on climate change so we do not need to embrace renewable fuels. That the Middle East would be irrelevant were they not sitting on oil and thus making us dependent on unstable parts of the world for our very existence. Can you tell me that fracking has not causes earthquakes in Oklahoma when until there was fracking there we no earthquakes? It's like pissing in the wind and saying it is raining. How can you defend dumping coal waste into our streams to keep the profits a little higher for the coal industry. I would gladly give every coal miner his salary to stop digging coal and dying as a result from Black Lung. Also blowing off mountaintops which set rocks flying for miles around? That is just okay with you?


Edited by queenbee1, 22 April 2017 - 07:33 PM.


#43 GaryLShelton

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 02:18 AM

Every part of life has violence embedded within it, queenbee1. I eat a hamburger today and the don't think about the pain and suffering of the animal that died to provide me a quick meal. Likewise, I don't think of the machinery behind things when I insert that little gas nozzle into my tank and begin filling. I don't argue that someone is benefiting from all this gas we are buying, and also that things might not be better if fossil fuels were moved away from, but I do want to point out that human nature would be no different if we had all the renewable sources of energy working full bore to provide us power and lights and transportation. Somebody would be controlling it because that's the way things are this side of heaven. Financial, controlling powers would still exist no matter what kind of power we were using.

Also, let me ask you, if you do not believe in God and a 6,000 year old earth, and instead hold to Evolution and billions of years of age for the earth, how could all the stuff that puny mankind have done be of any consequence to the earth? Being around for, what, only 200,000 years, we must be merely like a minor flea on the back of this behemoth called Earth. In its self-cleaning mechanism we will surely be eradicated as simply another annoying mutation. Right?

The earth is 4.5 billion years old and it can take care of itself. Thinking we somehow bother this earth seems ludicrous under these vast timescales of the evolutionary view.
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#44 Lonello

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 09:06 AM

I eat a hamburger today and the don't think about the pain and suffering of the animal that died to provide me a quick meal. Likewise, I don't think of the machinery behind things when I insert that little gas nozzle into my tank and begin filling. 

That's the thing dividing us then, Gary. I think about those consequences all the time. And I am always amazed a Christian wouldn't. In my country we have one Christian party who does, thinking like me, but the other who thinks like you. Amazing. How can any good Christian not think about the suffering? What they do to another?

 

Sure I have a breaking point too. I spoil Earth as well as you do. But at least I strive to make the spoiling smaller. Let them indeed create meat out of cells and not out of animals! They did last year in London, making that hamburger totally free of animal suffering! And let them indeed make cars in solar energy. Tesla is the future. Why stick with the old, like Trump demands, getting oil and coal back?!


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#45 Fairway

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 07:08 PM

Gary, it's funny you're representing the 1% here now while normally I do. Your 1% is that of the Denialgroups. There's just 1% of all experts to be found that still deny climat change is caused by mankind as there is just 1% of experts saying the Earth can be just 6000 years old. Normally I would take your side, but here I'll join the 99% ;)!!

Perhaps 1% of "experts" (who determines this title anyway?) say that global warning is not man-caused. However not 1% of people do, many many many more do not think global warning is caused by humans, In fact a very large portion of the Conservative Christian population does not believe humans caused this warning.

Obviously it is impossible to deny that the earth is warning because statistics show it. But that does not mean it was mancreated. Don't you evolutionists say there was a warning period in the time of the dinosaurs? What did they do to cause it? Don't think they went driving around in  evil CO2 emitting cars.

 

That's the thing dividing us then, Gary. I think about those consequences all the time. And I am always amazed a Christian wouldn't. In my country we have one Christian party who does, thinking like me, but the other who thinks like you. Amazing. How can any good Christian not think about the suffering? What they do to another?

 

Sure I have a breaking point too. I spoil Earth as well as you do. But at least I strive to make the spoiling smaller. Let them indeed create meat out of cells and not out of animals! They did last year in London, making that hamburger totally free of animal suffering! And let them indeed make cars in solar energy. Tesla is the future. Why stick with the old, like Trump demands, getting oil and coal back?!

I always wondered how one could think that eating animals is "evil" or "heartless" or along those lines.. Suffering of what, animals that are raised for our consumption? And a Christian party thatbelieves eating meet is wrong?

 

Genesis 9:3 Everything that lives and moves about will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything.

 

We are clearly allowed to eat animals as we wish, for God created them for this purpose. 

"totally free of animal suffering" :P I wonder how that animal-free burger tastes?  :o 


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#46 Lonello

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 08:43 AM

Christian party thatbelieves eating meet is wrong? 

Both eat meat, Fairway. Or well... that's just everyone's personal choice to do so.

 

All the good ones are saying is that animals need to be treated well and not tortured before slaughtering. 

 

And yes, I would like to eat that animal-free burger just as much as you do. It tasted absolutely great is what the eaters of it said. Just as tasty as Gary's hamburger before at least. 

 

I'm afraid we won't be having one very soon though, Fairway. It's still very costly now. Evolution has to go over it. In the end it's cheaper then animal meat, just as solar energy is soon to be cheaper than Trump's oil&coal.


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#47 queenbee1

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 07:01 PM

It seems to me that the Bible was written in a vacuum. Times have changed from a Shepard tending to his herd to the factory farms that exist today. There are just too many things in the Bible that are obsolete. From the use of energy twhen people huddled around a fire for warmth to today's modern society that in some countries electricity is as far away as a light switch. Cold air is warmed and warm air in cooled and the burning of fossil fuels at the current rate cannot be described in The Bible or any other ancient religious text. When it can be proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that evolution is how higher organisms came into being, the ancient Holy text just like all myths need to be put aside. When a human stands up and says the science is BS because the only real truth is my holy book I lose respect for their opinion. Denial is a valuable coping mechanism in some cases, but denying scientific discovery seems to me to just be stubborn and fear that science will make their theism obsolete. It won't

 

Science doesn't mean that there is no god. There is just no way to scientifically prove a god exists. As I have said when discussing climate change some people feel this is an attack on their belief system which it is not. We don't pray over the sick or other medieval forms of medicine and now we go the doctors and hospitals who in many cases can save our lives. Some Christian Scientists still refuse medical care and let themselves or their children die as it is god's will. I don't think anyone here is that extreme in their religious viewpoints.

 

I don't eat red meat not because I am concerned about the cows. I simply see that scientifically it is healthier for me not to eat it. The secondary benefit is that maybe one cow per year is saved. When a person goes into a fast food restaurant I wonder how they can justify eating a processed chemically preserved anything.

 

I understand why they do because on the TV and they are bombarded by commercials that sell us stylized food and a lifestyle. Open the wrapper and it looks nothing like the hamburger or chicken taco we were shown on TV. We are what we eat. We are also predisposed by our environment to eat a meal in 30 minutes and return to our job. Then just throw it away. Remember when a McDs burger came in Styrofoam boxes until we realized that Styrofoam is forever? Now we bag our groceries in plastic bags or paper while eco-conscious people walk into the store with biodegradable carrying bags.

 

So if you just see yourself on a scale of 1-10 with 1 being unconcrened and a 10 being very concerned about certain issues. Being very concerned has nothing to do with religion.

 

Apply that same scale to burning of fossil fuels, space travel, science, medicine, economics or the environment. You can be a 10 in regards to religion, but still be a 10 in regards to your health, the economy, the environment and scientific discovery.


Edited by queenbee1, 25 April 2017 - 07:47 PM.


#48 GaryLShelton

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 02:51 AM

When it can be proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that evolution is how higher organisms came into being, the ancient Holy text just like all myths need to be put aside.




I think the Holy text is going to be around a long time then, queenbee1. :)


Oh, and I do remember those styrofoam containers at McD also. The boxes today aren't good either, though. They need to get more minimal in my opinion.
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#49 queenbee1

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 06:04 AM

I think the Holy text is going to be around a long time then, queenbee1. :)


Oh, and I do remember those styrofoam containers at McD also. The boxes today aren't good either, though. They need to get more minimal in my opinion.

Gary the text has been around for centuries and politics changes them as well as translation efforts. What I cannot understand is that if water boils at 100C people continue to believe that given enough faith that can be changed. Some things in the physical world are absolute and unchanging. I always wonder do theist believe that God knew how things would turn out and despite all the chaos and suffering decided to let it go off the rails? Free will and free choice are based on an illusion of control. We cannot control our parents or our culture we are born into. Some people work hard and believe in Christ and still ends in failure as measured by wealth. Faith will not help you get a job, keep one or stop you from a premature death die to being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Gods are the creators, but the escape clause for all of them if free will. Life is very complex.


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#50 GaryLShelton

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 07:34 AM

Well, queenbee1, faith can move mountains, as they say. And the Bible actually does say that. If we had but a little faith, the size of a grain of Mustard seed the Bible says, we could tell the mountains to move. Since no mountains have moved that I know of I guess no one has mastered this technique quite yet. Surprisingly, the Bible agrees with "The Secret" in some important ways in this subject. Infusing the mind with sustained belief, or having faith, gets things done in both camps.
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#51 queenbee1

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 06:43 PM

Well, queenbee1, faith can move mountains, as they say. And the Bible actually does say that. If we had but a little faith, the size of a grain of Mustard seed the Bible says, we could tell the mountains to move. Since no mountains have moved that I know of I guess no one has mastered this technique quite yet. Surprisingly, the Bible agrees with "The Secret" in some important ways in this subject. Infusing the mind with sustained belief, or having faith, gets things done in both camps.

I cannot see how anyone has ever moved anything not even a pin through faith. Telekinesis is the stuff of science fiction and superheroes. It is a metaphor and I think you know that. When you bring that nonsense about "The Secret" it de-legitimizes the entire argument. That book of utter nonsense only sold copies because Oprah had a TV show at the time and people were like trees in the wind when listening to her bluster on and on about anything. That book has been totally debunked. The Bible doesn't agree with "The Secret", but I would bet the author lifted whole ideas from the bible and then rewrote them for the simpleminded Christian folk who want to believe.

 

Intellectual Curiosity is what Trump and his follows lack. He never had a plan to replace Obamacare, destroy ISIS or build a wall which is ludicrous. He is bleeding support from his followers as they now see the emperor is wearing no clothes. His bombing of the Syrian Airport and Sabre rattling toward North Korea shows the man is unhinged. China has told him the STFU.

 

He is dismantling the EPA and forbids the mention on federal websites of words Climate Change. I said I would give the guy a break, but the man is a menace. No one is going to be better off in 4 years of Trump other than Trump and his wealthy friends.

 

An average guy supporting a family will see nothing but platitudes from this man. I would bet you will be a damn site poorer as he continues to slash corporate taxation from 35% to 15%. That savings will skyrocket the federal deficit, be plowed into stock buybacks and no one will get a raise except the top 1%. Eventually they will come for our Medicare and Social Security. That is all that is left for them to plunder.



#52 queenbee1

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 11:09 PM

New show that should be on network TV, but instead is on Netflix. Bill Nye Saves The World. If you don't have a Netflix account can you afford 8.00/month or get someone else's password? They don't care. Piracy is baked into the price of a subscription.

 

Is it really the stance of some of you that the science is not science at all? That human behavior has no impact on CO2 levels? That CO2 levels do not impact the earth or that a god can somehow just correct this? Or that it'd all just a part of Gods plan to bring about the second coming?

 

2+2=4 is true only when it says so in the Quran or the Bible?



#53 queenbee1

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Posted 28 April 2017 - 07:58 PM

I am all about live and let live. What I get upset about is fundamental Christians who think all people should follow their God and they bring it into the political arena. They are a force to be reckoned with and I am liberal on all social issues. Machines will in the end make most of us irrelevant so we need to plan for the future.

 

On Bill Nye's show Venice is spending over 6.6 billion Euros to try and stop the flooding into their city. Miami and other cities in coastal US are also having to spend billions to keep the rising water at bay.  If we don't do something there will be massive migrations inland.

 

I love Olive oil. The South of Europe is in a drought and they cannot grow the olives their countries export and the sea life is dying at alarming rates. In Florida due to suburban sprawl bears and other animals are losing their habitats and coming into the suburbs. Don't worry as the bears will all die off eventually. I find it creepy for hunters who kill animals and mount them on the wall. The animals can't shoot back so it is not a sport. If we need to thin the herd then we can do it humanely. If you think abortion is murder then I think of hunters in the same way.

 

When the seas die we all die. Good luck to your children and grandchildren.



#54 GaryLShelton

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Posted 29 April 2017 - 06:09 AM

The seas die, queenbee1? That's a lot of water teeming with life out there. :)
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#55 Lonello

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Posted 29 April 2017 - 10:39 AM

The arctic sea at least: https://www.scientif...TW_ENGYSUS_NEWS. That's why it's freezing over here right now. Although it's spring. Has been the same for years now :(.

 

Simply start following https://twitter.com/sciam, Gary. You're Pro Life, aren't you? You'll love it then. Their last tweet was this:

 

 
 

Artificial womb that could someday sustain extremely prematurely born infants keeps baby sheep alive for weeks http://bit.ly/2q3GyHJ 

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#56 queenbee1

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Posted 29 April 2017 - 06:51 PM

Once again this is not a belief it is science. You know like the law of diminishing returns.

 

Large Sections of Australia’s Great Reef Are Now Dead, Scientists Find

 

https://www.nytimes....nge-dieoff.html

 

More than 90 percent of world's coral reefs will die by 2050

 

Maybe Coral Reefs are overrated.

 

Importance of Coral Reefs

 

I should imagine from Indiana the coral reefs are meaningless and the ocean are teaming with life. This is not an affront on religion so why do the propagandist try so damn hard to make it so. Climate change and global warming have nothing to do with religion, but the Christians seem to believe it is. Maybe they want to see the world burn, the sea life die and the oceans rise so that Jesus can come back and rapture up the righteous.

 

Put in "Coral Reefs Dying Hoax" and it comes right to Breitbart's News. The purveyors of the most BS on the planet. At least The Donald diminished Steve Bannon's stature in the NSC and the White House. 

 

Disney’s fireworks causing brush fires, fire union says



#57 Lonello

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Posted 30 April 2017 - 10:14 AM

Climate change and global warming have nothing to do with religion, but the Christians seem to believe it is. Maybe they want to see the world burn, the sea life die and the oceans rise so that Jesus can come back and rapture up the righteous.

 

Again: there is also a part of the Christian community that DOES want to preserve Earth. Being the good steward. They look decades forward and want to give their grandchildren a good heritage. That has a very Christian sound to it and I'm sure that's not only in my country.

 

Gary, you of all people like heritages. Don't you love Science too? The marches today are really exceptional so there's really something going on. Don't you realize the Scientific American was actually founded in 1845? That must sound great in your ears? You love Old America, don't you, so why don't you join our cause?


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#58 queenbee1

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Posted 12 May 2017 - 06:47 PM

Lo and others I don't think we should beat up on Gary. He believes what he believes and I for one am not going to change his mind. More power to him I say for standing his ground. I have nothing left to fight for. I will be dead before the seas cover the land and I am already on Medicare so I don't have to fight for socialized medicine either. Gay marriage is the law of the land and I don't care as I will never get married. No kids so I don't care about the rising cost of education. So to hell with the world. I will pay my taxes and be happy. I feel so liberated that I think I will post something happy or confusing in the Consciousness Topic.


Edited by queenbee1, 12 May 2017 - 07:45 PM.


#59 Napoleon 1er

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 05:21 PM

... your opinion is great but thinking to the others is also great


If you don't know where you go ... you have a lot of chance to arrive elsewhere ...


#60 Lonello

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 07:46 PM

Yes, ESPECIALLY to Gary. My thoughts are always with Gary. I'm not sure who has been beating him up, not seeing much people in this topic besides yourself, Queenbee? My input was something Gary absolutely loves the most... his favorite hobbies: America to date 1845 and the artifical womb also Ron Paul would love I'm sure. Just things I have in common with Gary. Maybe you erred as in the politics topic I indeed have different opinions then Gary... can't agree on everything, Queenbee, that would be just too boring!


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