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piece value in your opinion?


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#121 PsychoPatty

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 07:37 PM

 

Um well, I finally looked at this topic and tried to establish values ​​that (sometimes) reflect me  :)

 

 

Piece [P] = each number of pieces [NP] * chance of survival [S] (calculated based on the percentage of the opponent's piece can be taken, which does not include the suicide of course) = final scoring [R]

 

Outline for calcul : P = ([NP+S]/2) = R

 

10 = 1 * 82,5% = 41.75
9 = 1 * 80% = 40.5
8 = 2 * 75% = 38.5 
B = 6 * 70% = 38
7 = 3 * 67,5% = 35.25
6 = 4 * 57,5% = 30.75
5 = 4 * 47,5% = 25.75
3 = 5 * 40% = 22.5
4 = 4 * 37,5% = 20.75
2 = 8 * 5% = 6.5
S = 1 * 5% = 3
 
...but I confess that this is a little too mathematical, because I still think the spy is greater than a score of 3, but I do not know how to score it. Maybe he should be ranked second in fact, just after the marshal.

 

 

Thank you for thinking with us.

First I would like to ask you, When auto-ends are introduced. Which do you think is more fair, an auto-draw or auto-win?

Should an auto-win be decided by a value-system? 

 

About your point-system.. Indeed i think its to mathematical.. We can tell most of us won't understand this, especially not the "kids/juveniles"..

Other than that,  i believe your bombs are way to overrated.. Maybe on the spy and bombs there should be a different math..

 

Also i think that this will be a problem.. at your system 2 sergs or 2 lt's are stronger in points than 1 marshall/general.

To me, the line that should be drawn should be atleast at captains, what do you think?

 

Lol, why not take the numbering of the authentic or original pieces?

Or that's too logical I guess? :)

That's the only real value,...your pieces,....and they are numbered already.

Why don't you just make a complete new game, call it Padrego, an invention of you and Patty.

I guarantee I will buy that game, just to laugh my azz of cuz' it would be entertaining as fok :)

Trickz, why is it so hard for you to counter us with valid arguments and real proof?

Once again, all you come up with is complete bullshi, which doesn't help the situation at all..

 

You totally miss the point..

 

When the game is forced to an auto-end (overtime), NO FLAG CAPTURED AND NOT ABLE TO KILL ALL PIECES

Do you think an auto-draw is the most fair? But once you got a game with gen vs gen and 6 other pieces..

Shouldn't the one up in pieces should deserve the win as that would make the most sense?

 

It's not about "making a new game" or "destroy classic Stratego"

in-game piece-value in "overtime" wouldn't make sense at all. This for sure would not be bulletproof and is more discussable than spies/bombs/miners with certain piece-value

 

 

 

 

Drew.

 

Do you mind if I/we (staff would be the best option, as their polls often gets way more views) open a new topic with a poll..

One which people should only reply to with valid arguments and real proof

So we can leave this topic for discussions, as it already has a few pages full of crap


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#122 trickz

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 08:05 PM

Thank you for thinking with us.

First I would like to ask you, When auto-ends are introduced. Which do you think is more fair, an auto-draw or auto-win?

Should an auto-win be decided by a value-system? 

 

About your point-system.. Indeed i think its to mathematical.. We can tell most of us won't understand this, especially not the "kids/juveniles"..

Other than that,  i believe your bombs are way to overrated.. Maybe on the spy and bombs there should be a different math..

 

Also i think that this will be a problem.. at your system 2 sergs or 2 lt's are stronger in points than 1 marshall/general.

To me, the line that should be drawn should be atleast at captains, what do you think?

 

Trickz, why is it so hard for you to counter us with valid arguments and real proof?

Once again, all you come up with is complete bullshi, which doesn't help the situation at all..

 

You totally miss the point..

 

When the game is forced to an auto-end (overtime), NO FLAG CAPTURED AND NOT ABLE TO KILL ALL PIECES

Do you think an auto-draw is the most fair? But once you got a game with gen vs gen and 6 other pieces..

Shouldn't the one up in pieces should deserve the win as that would make the most sense?

 

It's not about "making a new game" or "destroy classic Stratego"

in-game piece-value in "overtime" wouldn't make sense at all. This for sure would not be bulletproof and is more discussable than spies/bombs/miners with certain piece-value

 

 

 

 

Drew.

 

Do you mind if I/we (staff would be the best option, as their polls often gets way more views) open a new topic with a poll..

One which people should only reply to with valid arguments and real proof

So we can leave this topic for discussions, as it already has a few pages full of crap

 

 

An autowin is excluded, that's bs.

An autodraw could come into place if the game doesn't progress after a x count of moves.

Take the general with his sealed flag against a general and six other units except miners and a sealed flag.

This game won't progress at all.  My general will dodge your general everytime and all the other pawns don't have a real function in the game except standing there doing nothing or avoiding my attacks.

It's very clear that this game will never end so therefore it would become an autodraw.

Material is irrelevant. It's grabbing the flag or kill all pieces, no other options.

 

Implementing an autowin is the same bs as a value system.

It doesn't follow the logic way of winning a game.

You can argue what you want but the fact is and remains that this game can only be won by grabbing the flag or kill all the pieces.

If that ain't proof, then what is?

You're just a denier and you can't stand other visions and you only want to talk about supporting your value system.

Only then are you wiling to listen but as soon someone doesn't share this idea at all, then he's immediately being labelled as a purist, a stone ager who doesn't evolve and blablabla. 

So you seem to have the right of free thinking and it's normal for you that other people support that idea but OTHER free thinking is forbidden and then it's totally not normal that others support that because then they don't understand it at all and blablabla.

If that's not hypocrite, I don't know what is.

 

About the proof, laugh my azz off,...I've given examples enough where the value system is not bulletproof.

The only reply I get is : "Yeah, but your example is ridiculous cuz' that only happens one in the two hundred situations"

1) You at least admit that my example is not bulletproof

2) The math of your explanation is not correct cuz' 5-10 procent of all games played in Stratego end up in a draw

If you don't believe that,...grab the stats of some random players and calculate their ties procentually.

3) You also say : "I can give more examples where my system defnitely holds up",.....so far I saw none of them.

And the one you gave I immediately countered....perfect example of an autodraw.

 

 

This ain't no valid system game.

The valids you need to win the game are standing on the board and they're numbered already.

The marsh is the boss and the rest follows in rank.

Bombs and flag are unmovable pieces so they're not ranked, duh.

Only movable pawns should have a value based on grab the flag or kill all pieces-system.

Not based on an extra value system.

 

Straight facts, proof,...bulletproof,........end of discussion. :)


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#123 PsychoPatty

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 08:39 PM

An autowin is excluded, that's bs.

An autodraw could come into place if the game doesn't progress after a x count of moves.

Take the general with his sealed flag against a general and six other units except miners and a sealed flag.

This game won't progress at all.  My general will dodge your general everytime and all the other pawns don't have a real function in the game except standing there doing nothing or avoiding my attacks.

It's very clear that this game will never end so therefore it would become an autodraw.

Material is irrelevant. It's grabbing the flag or kill all pieces, no other options.

 

Implementing an autowin is the same bs as a value system.

It doesn't follow the logic way of winning a game.

You can argue what you want but the fact is and remains that this game can only be won by grabbing the flag or kill all the pieces.

If that ain't proof, then what is?

You're just a denier and you can't stand other visions and you only want to talk about supporting your value system.

Only then are you wiling to listen but as soon someone doesn't share this idea at all, then he's immediately being labelled as a purist, a stone ager who doesn't evolve and blablabla. 

So you seem to have the right of free thinking and it's normal for you that other people support that idea but OTHER free thinking is forbidden and then it's totally not normal that others support that because then they don't understand it at all and blablabla.

If that's not hypocrite, I don't know what is.

 

About the proof, laugh my azz off,...I've given examples enough where the value system is not bulletproof.

The only reply I get is : "Yeah, but your example is ridiculous cuz' that only happens one in the two hundred situations"

1) You at least admit that my example is not bulletproof

2) The math of your explanation is not correct cuz' 5-10 procent of all games played in Stratego end up in a draw

If you don't believe that,...grab the stats of some random players and calculate their ties procentually.

3) You also say : "I can give more examples where my system defnitely holds up",.....so far I saw none of them.

And the one you gave I immediately countered....perfect example of an autodraw.

 

 

This ain't no valid system game.

The valids you need to win the game are standing on the board and they're numbered already.

The marsh is the boss and the rest follows in rank.

Bombs and flag are unmovable pieces so they're not ranked, duh.

Only movable pawns should have a value based on grab the flag or kill all pieces-system.

Not based on an extra value system.

 

Straight facts, proof,...bulletproof,........end of discussion. :)

 

An auto-win is indeed the conclusion of a value-system.. How else would it be?

You may run what you want, it's hilarious to see how unsportsmanslike you are.. Endless runners as you are the cause, and they should be far from rewarded with a "draw" 

 

Material is irrelevant, and that is "your truth" and how the rules are at the moment..

In the end, it doesn't makes sense at all. And it's far from fair in most games which and if it  would end in auto-end

 

Your capture or kill bullshi ain't proof.. It's once again nostalgic crap..

Sometimes the rules should be bended, to get progress.

It's a good thing, not all humans are like you, otherwise population would still think the world was flat, in its ignorance..

 

I reply on ridicilous examples as they are ridiclous.. A few posts back I made value arguments on the how's and why's..

You want me to post 10 pages of examples which stands? I don't need to as we all can come up with games we ever played and are  on "the winning side" if you would look at material.

Besides that, its quite easy.. When it comes to an auto-win a Winner is decided by the amounts of points (based on their ranks MOSTLY) they got at the end.. 

You may or may not agree on the values (My value-system still would be the most fair), but that doesn't change the fact written above.

 

 

 

I didn;t come up with the bombs and equil pieces examples, you did.. As your truth can't accept the fact that bombs could have a value in overtime doesn't mean you proofed me wrong..

 

So far you didn't come up with ONE thing which shows us it ain't bulletproof..

 

That bombs and equil pieces example was just discussable, it all depends on which value-system would take place and if the bombs should have a value..

 

Stop living in your own truth, ignorant fool..

It's no coinsedence you got no progress in real life (1500 games in a few months says enough, not even mentioned 1/6th of forumposts with its crappy rhymes)

 

Now come up with real proof and real arguments.. 

 

WE KNOW THE FLAG AND KILL PIECES PARTS BY NOW. IT'S ABOUT WHAT WE DO WHEN WE CAN'T ACCOMPLISH THAT ACHIEVEMENT..

 

One simple question.. Would it really be the most fair to let the other guy which got 6 pieces more have a draw? WHICH MEANS HE DIDN'T FCKED IT UP AS THE OTHER ONE.

 

I already gave you the answer which is nothing but common sense..

 

.. 


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#124 trickz

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 08:57 PM

How many times do I have to repeat myself?

If you don't fok the game up, you can achieve one of the two required goals in the game.

If you can't, then you fokked up. Capiche? :)

For you that's nostalgic crap,....no, that's how the game is.

So you don't like this game, that's for sure.

Doesn't therefore mean that I'm wrong,....that is your truth.

I only follow the truth of the game.

Your value system is just based on sjit and if you really claim that your third bomb is decisive in a game where we both have sealed flags (mine is corner sealed) and we both have a sergeant and a scout,....then you're really nuts.

That's an autodraw.  The same for the extreme situation with the general,...autodraw.

 

SO I'M GONNA SAY IT ONCE MORE I GUESS,........

IF YOU DON'T FOK THE GAME UP, THEN YOU CAN WIN THE GAME.

No other options,....what if this, what if that,.....it's all blablabla.

 

And the spy is worth sjit....and if you claim that a spy vs scout on the board with both sealed flags should be in advantage of the spy, then you're complete nuts.

You also claim that I could never catch you as long as you have three squares, lol.

Proofs you're really a noob I guess.  It doesn't even matter how you move on the board, you are TRAPPED cuz' when it's my turn

I will put my scout on a diagonal opposite of where you are.

What are you gonna do? You can move only one square so I follow,...till you reach the edge and you have to go your bottom row and then it's game over.

That ain't proof or what?  I guess it's nostalgic crap? Lol! :)

 

 

An autowin is for losers,......real winners win their game in a normal way.

They don't need that "i want to win but i can't so I need to be rewarded with points-crap" to wn a game.


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#125 PsychoPatty

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 09:25 PM

How many times do I have to repeat myself?

If you don't fok the game up, you can achieve one of the two required goals in the game.

If you can't, then you fokked up. Capiche? :)

For you that's nostalgic crap,....no, that's how the game is.

So you don't like this game, that's for sure.

Doesn't therefore mean that I'm wrong,....that is your truth.

I only follow the truth of the game.

Your value system is just based on sjit and if you really claim that your third bomb is decisive in a game where we both have sealed flags (mine is corner sealed) and we both have a sergeant and a scout,....then you're really nuts.

That's an autodraw.  The same for the extreme situation with the general,...autodraw.

 

SO I'M GONNA SAY IT ONCE MORE I GUESS,........

IF YOU DON'T FOK THE GAME UP, THEN YOU CAN WIN THE GAME.

No other options,....what if this, what if that,.....it's all blablabla.

 

And the spy is worth sjit....and if you claim that a spy vs scout on the board with both sealed flags should be in advantage of the spy, then you're complete nuts.

You also claim that I could never catch you as long as you have three squares, lol.

Proofs you're really a noob I guess.  It doesn't even matter how you move on the board, you are TRAPPED cuz' when it's my turn

I will put my scout on a diagonal opposite of where you are.

What are you gonna do? You can move only one square so I follow,...till you reach the edge and you have to go your bottom row and then it's game over.

That ain't proof or what?  I guess it's nostalgic crap? Lol! :)

 

 

An autowin is for losers,......real winners win their game in a normal way.

They don't need that "i want to win but i can't so I need to be rewarded with points-crap" to wn a game.

 

Once again, the topic ain't about, we need another way to win, dipshii.. The topic is auto-end..

It's either a draw or a win/lose.. Once again, a win/lose would be the most fair one, IN MY OPINION.

 

The one who fcked it up less, should be paid off, which is my argument.

 

If you managed to catch the spy with your scout, than you have a win, its simple as that, ain't it.. The question is, what if your scout can't catch it in x-numbers of moves..

 

Than in my system the spy wins (once again, the joke is on you if you couldn't catch it)

 

SO WHAT DID YOU PROOFED?

 

If a value system comes through which gives bombs a value, than you lost on bombs, simple as that..

If it ain't than it's a draw.. 

your opinion is that it is nuts, it ain't a fact..

Fact is that most bomb defusings doesn't come without consequences

 

an auto-win isn't about losing/winning, it's about fair endings. Especially when the "losing part" keeps on running for a draw, just and only because they are too unsportsmanslike to admit they did fcked up the most..

 

PS. i rather be a "noob" than being such a simple minded fool like you..

As one thing i proofed with; 

 

If you managed to catch the spy with your scout, than you have a win, its simple as that, ain't it.. The question is, what if your scout can't catch it in x-numbers of moves..

 

is that you are simple minded


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#126 trickz

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 09:54 PM

Most bombs don't come without consequences you say,...........then wtf is the consequence of my sealed flag?

It's still sealed so what's the difference noob?!?

Why should you be rewarded with more points if we have the same situation and my flag is sealed as well?

Wtf do you mean bomb defusings without consequences?  What's the consequence now? Can you reach the flag?

No, so it's WITHOUT CONSEQUENCES,....that ain't proof or what?!

Does the extra bomb give you an advantage in the game? No! That ain't proof or what?!

 

And wtf do you mean you would win with the spy after an x-count of moves?

Lol,....dude, it only takes three or four moves from my scout to block you.

Let's say this process takes about 10 steps and it's over,.............so pretty sure I kill you within a x count of moves.

But of course, I've not proven anything, lol.  The noob thinks he can avoid a scout's attack forever.

Math is clearly not your strongest subject cuz' if you try this out, you'll see it's quite easy to trap this spy.

So it's again bs,...which I'm used to by now but that's because you're really simple minded

and in some way your brain doesn't seem to understand very logical patterns on a Stratego gameboard :)

 

Talking about fairness, lol,.....like it's fair to get a win if you can't catch the flag or kill his pieces.

You always take real war examples,.....ridiculous btw but I don't think Khadaffi or others would want a victory based on stupid points.

He would have been quite a softy then :)

Victory can only be claimed if you achieve the goal of the game.

And you can choose as well, two options to win the game but yet it's not enough for real war veteran Patty who doesn't need to step his game up, ....lol! :)

 

Btw, how the hell can I lose if you're not able to reach my flag or kill my pieces?

I don't understand that unlogical pathetic nonsense so please explain?

Because you fokked it up less?  That's babytalk,...it's like a crying child that doesn't get his candy.

 

 

So I have proven it now for the 554558544522254th time,..............but this stubborn mule keeps on denying it.

It's like you're brainwashed but yeah,.....therefore you need to have brains first of course :)


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#127 PsychoPatty

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 10:09 PM

Most bombs don't come without consequences you say,...........then wtf is the consequence of my sealed flag?

It's still sealed so what's the difference noob?!?

Why should you be rewarded with more points if we have the same situation and my flag is sealed as well?

Wtf do you mean bomb defusings without consequences?  What's the consequence now? Can you reach the flag?

No, so it's WITHOUT CONSEQUENCES,....that ain't proof or what?!

Does the extra bomb give you an advantage in the game? No! That ain't proof or what?!

 

And wtf do you mean you would win with the spy after an x-count of moves?

Lol,....dude, it only takes three or four moves from my scout to block you.

Let's say this process takes about 10 steps and it's over,.............so pretty sure I kill you within a x count of moves.

But of course, I've not proven anything, lol.  The noob thinks he can avoid a scout's attack forever.

Math is clearly not your strongest subject cuz' if you try this out, you'll see it's quite easy to trap this spy.

So it's again bs,...which I'm used to by now but that's because you're really simple minded

and in some way your brain doesn't seem to understand very logical patterns on a Stratego gameboard :)

 

Talking about fairness, lol,.....like it's fair to get a win if you can't catch the flag or kill his pieces.

You always take real war examples,.....ridiculous btw but I don't think Khadaffi or others would want a victory based on stupid points.

He would have been quite a softy then :)

Victory can only be claimed if you achieve the goal of the game.

And you can choose as well, two options to win the game but yet it's not enough for real war veteran Patty who doesn't need to step his game up, ....lol! :)

 

Btw, how the hell can I lose if you're not able to reach my flag or kill my pieces?

I don't understand that unlogical pathetic nonsense so please explain?

Because you fokked it up less?  That's babytalk,...it's like a crying child that doesn't get his candy.

 

 

So I have proven it now for the 554558544522254th time,..............but this stubborn mule keeps on denying it.

It's like you're brainwashed but yeah,.....therefore you need to have brains first of course :)

Funny how you talk about war veteran Patty..

Especially if i've to read that I love the smell of Napalm in the morning each time.

 

Keep on whining about the spy.. Have you seen the anti-chase rule? Makes it quite hard for you to trap the spy, don't ya think? And if you does, hail the victory. End of the discussion about this stupid example which won't happen

 

Bomb example.. it all depends on what system comes through (if an auto-win is the final decision).. if it is one with bombs who got a value, than you got to live with it..

 

Keep on proofing your an asshole, dipshi..

 

I can take any duel/battle/war for example.. Draws do not appear in most of them.. 

It's because they play to win, instead of useless whinings about.. ohh i need a draw as my lotto-set up might be useless otherwise..

 

Coming back on the thing you've already said thousand times?

It's about what should happen if it comes to an auto-end.. Which automaticly means ya didn't achieves to kill the pieces or take the flag..

WHAT THE FCK DO YOU NOT GET ABOUT THIS MORON?


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#128 trickz

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 10:25 PM

What SHOULD happen?

There is no should.

Or a victory happens or it doesn't happen and if it doesn't happen, it's a draw.

It's very simple :)

 

Btw, I don't need to chase your spy at all actually.

I'm diagonally from you and I just follow,...not a single time I create a fullbind.

I just trap you,....perfect legal and bye bye value system :)

 

The autowin will never come through.

I know that for sure.

It's actually funny..........so you're blaming me that there is an overly agressive anti chase rule in place now,.......

Types like me are the cause of that you say. 

So when the mods then changed this and implemented an antichase rule, then it's ridiculous according to you but if they would follow YOUR value system and people would complain about it, then it's perfectly common sense and normal I guess?

Hypocrite noob :)

 

So it's my fault that you fokked a game up whereby you have to chase pathetically a pawn that you could never get and then you're also claiming that's a part of stratego.

Chasing is a part indeed but continuously chasing like you because you fokked it up and can't kill the piece should NEVER be allowed, let alone stand giving you the reward of a victory.  Wtf is that for bs dude? :)

 

As long as it is in your favour, then it's good but the moment it's not, you immediately gonna cry.

But I guess you have more rights and your way is better than other ways so therefore your vision has got be called the truth automatically.

 

Maybe that fokhead from North Korea is your brother instead of Drew? :)


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#129 SuperDrew2k

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 02:50 AM

"Drew.

 

Do you mind if I/we (staff would be the best option, as their polls often gets way more views) open a new topic with a poll..

One which people should only reply to with valid arguments and real proof

So we can leave this topic for discussions, as it already has a few pages full of crap"

 

 

@patty

No, i dont mind...and think it would be better to separate the two topics.

the people that disagree with a value system really shouldnt even be commenting here.

yes, a poll would be interesting...if you create it, try to be clear as possible on what benefits it would have.

i doubt the purists will be able to come up with any cons to why it shouldnt be implemented. 

 

btw, im not mad at you here...trickz is the one that ruined this thread


Hmm....i wonder where that marshal went

#130 SuperDrew2k

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 02:59 AM

Lol, why not take the numbering of the authentic or original pieces?

Or that's too logical I guess? :)

That's the only real value,...your pieces,....and they are numbered already.

Why don't you just make a complete new game, call it Padrego, an invention of you and Patty.

I guarantee I will buy that game, just to laugh my azz of cuz' it would be entertaining as fok :)

 

"why not take the numbering of the authentic or original pieces?"

"That's the only real value"

 

so, 10 equals a marshal and 2 equals a scout....do you really think 5 scouts (2x5=10) are equal to a marshal? because i would gladly start each game by trading 5 of my scouts for my oppenents marshal....wouldnt you?

 

your comment above proves you dont really understand. 

 

and btw...i have already invented a different game based on the whole capture the flag concept. people always tend to laugh at what they dont understand.


Hmm....i wonder where that marshal went

#131 §ilence321

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 08:53 PM

i dislike this point value thing because some games are won by luck and its more fun to know you won a game instead of the computer choosing by what you captured


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#132 Angelus

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 11:23 AM

I've approved the poll:

http://forum.strateg...ic-end-of-game/






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