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piece value in your opinion?


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#21 PsychoPatty

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 09:55 PM

"When you're in control of the battlefield you should be awarded (sic).."   

 

Patty, what should you be "awarded"?  A medal for meritorious control?  You say yourself that we "play to win".  Well, if that's true, what is the point of "awarding" control?  [Okay.  I'm done with that.  It's "re-warding", Patty.]  The ONLY reward should be victory.  In Stratego, if neither player can capture the other's flag, OR, kill ALL of his opponent's pieces, then the game should be a Draw.  Every time.  Period.  Often times this happens to the player that has a strategic advantage in material.  But, on the other hand, it happens terrifically often, too, that the materially disadvantaged player pulls off a coup and a surprising win. 

 

But if we give each player 200 moves to try to win and no attacks happen, then the game has been given a reasonable chance and now should be declared a Draw under the proposed Auto Draw rule.  If you think the person stronger in material should win, he should prove it by attacking within 200 moves and clearing all doubt as to the game's outcome.  We can't sit on the outside and adjudicate the stronger position with the win.  The game needs to be played.  But if there are no attacks within 200 moves, the game should be done; it's a Draw.

 

Yes, we usually play to win, and it is a game.  But sometimes I would be happy playing for a Draw.  Give me 10 Draws in 10 matches, if it were possible, against Silver players and I'd be a happy camper!

 

And by the way, yes, wars in real life do end up in Draws.  Check out Antietam (Sharpsburg for you Northies) in the Civil War, or Lundy's Lane in the War of 1812, or Sollum in WWII.  Real leaders surrender or call a truce because they have real flesh and blood soldiers to think about.  In that way, we're nothing close to real.  Stratego's a game, pure and simple.  If I think I can win this game, I will darn sure try.  

 

Your comments about Bin Laden are just what I've been saying.  You either control the battlefield well enough to kill all the other guy's pieces, OR, you capture the opponent's flag.  Either way should win.  

 

Awarded/rewarded.. In the end you know what i mean, don't ya..

My english ain't the best of the world, but ive seen some people here talking spanglish or something, i dunno..

 

Time to make a change, if ya ask me.. Just because it "always" has been like this, doesn't mean things can't change..

Ive had several games where i'm upfront several pieces..

 

 

Which simply means i didn't fcked it up as much as the other did..

Should i accept a draw, just because the other "leader" is runnin around lakes?

And while doing, the other cries about me "chasing" his last piece?

 

WARS NEVER END IN A DRAW! Every1 loses, I'm not talking about fleeing bureacrats,who let others die, for their material lifes..

 

 

Here is just a little example, which i believe the other should just accept his mistakes, or a point system should be fair..

An example which ain't solved by the auto-draw system!!

 

2nk10h.png


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#22 GaryLShelton

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 11:07 PM

Patty, let me say up front that the game you show below is a classic example of a Draw.  You can't get his flag or kill all of his pieces and the same is true for your opponent.  You can ask "Should i accept a draw...?" all you want, and you can play this game all you want, but it will never end without an automatic ending to the game that is in the programming.  I would say that this automatic end should be a Draw in your example, pure and simple, and ELO points should be awarded to each player that way.  But if on some chance you are successful in arranging the rule with the Dev's here where you would be awarded more ELO points because of your slightly stronger position, then hooray for you.  The game would still have to have an automatic ending in the programming where this was adjudicated.  In other words, we are back to X moves without an attack and then the game would be ended automatically.  Whether this was the Draw end that would follow the classic game rules which I favor, or your twist of "material strength", the ultimate thing here is that we enact an automatic game end in the absence of attacks by either player after so many moves.   

 

As for things changing, I guess they might, but the classic game is why we're all here in the first place and I am extremely happen Stratego.com has taken the position they have to put out the classic game. Many references have been and will continue to be made to chess as a model for Stratego in some way or another.  I would only state here the notion that in chess you have to get your opponent's King to win, much like the Flag in Stratego. Only in Stratego we give you the further option of winning by killing all of your opponent's movable pieces.  So Stratego already gives you one more way of winning than chess.  I just think you're pushing the envelope to ask for yet another way of winning or distributing points.  But, hey, good luck.  

 

And as for wars never ending in a Draw, well, check out the War of 1812.  With a few battles that ended in Draws, many think the entire war was a Draw.  GLS

 

 

Time to make a change, if ya ask me.. Just because it "always" has been like this, doesn't mean things can't change..

Ive had several games where i'm upfront several pieces..

 

Which simply means i didn't fcked it up as much as the other did..

Should i accept a draw, just because the other "leader" is runnin around lakes?

And while doing, the other cries about me "chasing" his last piece?

 

WARS NEVER END IN A DRAW! Every1 loses, I'm not talking about fleeing bureacrats,who let others die, for their material lifes..

 

Here is just a little example, which i believe the other should just accept his mistakes, or a point system should be fair..

An example which ain't solved by the auto-draw system!!

 

2nk10h.png


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The complete GS&F Rules can be found here: http://forum.strateg...rum-rules-2016/
Draw Refusal Rules, specifically, can be read here: http://forum.strateg...931#entry468931

#23 PsychoPatty

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 12:35 AM

Whatever is said, or whatever people gonna say.. My opinion will always be this.. 

A point-system will always be more fair

 

It REWARDS the player who didn't fcked up.. 

 

unlike as it is now, where people who did fcked it up gets rewarded with a draw, with endless run-aways..

(ain't it the same people who are the cause of "chasers"?!)

 

It's ridicilous, in my opinion and im glad I and the people around me played it different in my youth..

Atleast they were brave enough to forfeit and accept they messed up and accept their loss..

 

 

I truelly do NOT care about rules, or how it "always" was..

The most funny part is when ya find out the rules of stratego has been changin on and off the past years..


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#24 trickz

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 01:31 AM

Whatever is said, or whatever people gonna say.. My opinion will always be this.. 

A point-system will always be more fair

 

It REWARDS the player who didn't fcked up.. 

 

 

Probably Drew his brother?

What a bs is this. 

So you have to be rewarded as a little child because you didn't fok it up?

But you DID fok it up cuz' you can't grab the flag and you can't kill your opponent's pieces.

Why should you be rewarded then?

What do you don't understand about the game?  The goal is very simple :

1) Or you grab the flag, game done

2) Or you kill all his pieces, game done

 

If both players can't do both, then the game is a draw, it's that simple.

Doesn't matter if your opponent has more material or not, it's just common sense.

It's also really gettin' on my nerves that you act like a hypocrite who claims he didn't fok it up.

If you didn't fok it up, you didn't need a lousy stupid value system to decide a match.

You could easily grab the flag or kill all his pieces then.

That's the goal of the game but obviously you don't care about the rules like you say.

So you don't care about the game and you're just yelling some stupid stuff that doesn't make sense at all.

 

But whatever, laughing my azz off with this bs :)


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#25 GaryLShelton

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 02:55 AM

Whatever is said, or whatever people gonna say.. My opinion will always be this.. 

A point-system will always be more fair

 

It REWARDS the player who didn't fcked up.. 

 

unlike as it is now, where people who did fcked it up gets rewarded with a draw, with endless run-aways..

(ain't it the same people who are the cause of "chasers"?!)

 

It's ridicilous, in my opinion and im glad I and the people around me played it different in my youth..

Atleast they were brave enough to forfeit and accept they messed up and accept their loss..

 

 

I truelly do NOT care about rules, or how it "always" was..

The most funny part is when ya find out the rules of stratego has been changin on and off the past years..

 

Patty, I made a point previously that you didn't respond to here.  That being, that even if you get your point system, how are you going to end the game and declare someone the winner based upon who had the best material situation?  What method do you think we should use to best automatically end the game?  We have to program an automatic ending process into the computer no matter if the adjudication is a Draw or some kind win declaration based on your point system.  Does the 200 move limit per player suggested in this forum for the Auto Draw appeal to you?  Do you have any different ideas here?  GLS


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#26 PsychoPatty

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 08:27 AM

Patty, I made a point previously that you didn't respond to here.  That being, that even if you get your point system, how are you going to end the game and declare someone the winner based upon who had the best material situation?  What method do you think we should use to best automatically end the game?  We have to program an automatic ending process into the computer no matter if the adjudication is a Draw or some kind win declaration based on your point system.  Does the 200 move limit per player suggested in this forum for the Auto Draw appeal to you?  Do you have any different ideas here?  GLS

 

Seems like I missed your point?

Or is it about "auto-ends" of games..

 

Its quite obvious it needs an auto-end after x-number of moves.. Endless chasing games ain't good for anyone.

Once again, a point system would be most fair..

As for my example.. HE can't attack my players (unless I make a mistake) which means i control and dominates the battlefield..

 

About the who's and the why's.. Dont ask me, i would simply not know which points value would be best or most fair..

 

As for my example.. He had a General, 3-10 moves before, but he decided to take me down and ran into my bomb..

 

What will happen if some1 doesn't attack at his position and just move and block for x-number of moves..

 

Would that be fair with a point-system..

 

To me it would be yes, as in the end, he dominates the battlefield.. Ain't that the purpose of any "strategy" game, duel or war?

 

Dominate and control.. 


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#27 PsychoPatty

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 08:38 AM

Probably Drew his brother?

What a bs is this. 

So you have to be rewarded as a little child because you didn't fok it up?

But you DID fok it up cuz' you can't grab the flag and you can't kill your opponent's pieces.

Why should you be rewarded then?

What do you don't understand about the game?  The goal is very simple :

1) Or you grab the flag, game done

2) Or you kill all his pieces, game done

 

If both players can't do both, then the game is a draw, it's that simple.

Doesn't matter if your opponent has more material or not, it's just common sense.

It's also really gettin' on my nerves that you act like a hypocrite who claims he didn't fok it up.

If you didn't fok it up, you didn't need a lousy stupid value system to decide a match.

You could easily grab the flag or kill all his pieces then.

That's the goal of the game but obviously you don't care about the rules like you say.

So you don't care about the game and you're just yelling some stupid stuff that doesn't make sense at all.

 

But whatever, laughing my azz off with this bs :)

 

 

It can't be more hilarious and bullshi as all the shi you spit on this forum..

 

 Ain't it you,juvenile, who seeks for attention with his nonsense and all these emoticons..

Talking about "little child"

 

Don't come up with common sense, fool.. Your too simple minded to come up with "common sense"..

 

It does makes sense if your open minded.. But once again, your quite simple and close minded.. 


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#28 trickz

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 09:40 AM

You are indeed very simple, that's true.

Dominate and control you call it,.........looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool

If you dominate and control than you have no problem to reach his flag or to kill all his pieces.

You don't have any control or domination so keep on promoting your retarded point system.

You're just a simple noob with a big mouth that likes to threaten players with private messages as well.

Never heard of such a bs like this.

 

What a crap :)


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#29 PsychoPatty

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 10:17 AM

You are indeed very simple, that's true.

Dominate and control you call it,.........looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool

If you dominate and control than you have no problem to reach his flag or to kill all his pieces.

You don't have any control or domination so keep on promoting your retarded point system.

You're just a simple noob with a big mouth that likes to threaten players with private messages as well.

Never heard of such a bs like this.

 

What a crap :)

 

 

You're truelly one hilarious mofo..

 

You talking so much crap on this forum with your bullshi poetry, and as soon as some1 wanna takes it personal you back off.. I wonder who the 13itch is.. Indeed i asked you for your adress.. time to find out if your only half as brave as your poetry may seems, but just like most rappers you talk to much..

♥♥♥♥ a talk, bring the walk, sissy.. here a few examples of our "private conversation".

 

 

Yo, toon respect?

Lol, what the fok ben jij voor een klotegek!  :)

Rot lekker op met je mallotenklets of ik stuur je naar het rijk van de doden echt!

Jouw zoon denkt dat ie cool is met z'n grote bek

en nu wordt die ho gebacked door z'n klotepa met z'n idioot gezwets?!?

Kapot lache, je niveau is wack!

Kruip lekker in je klotebed en ruk jezelf af op Cheryl de demonenslet

want ik weet zeker dat je net als je zoon van die teef een poster hebt!  :)

Of ik true spit? Zeker weten want ik spit het gewoon te vet met de dopeste raps

en Ik wijk voor NIEMAND dus het heeft geen zin om te liggen stoken vent!

Je kan het vuur krijgen,....ik lach me ziek want je bent echt een joker fag

dus kom langs en er staat een reus van twee meter op je te wachten,...

all I fokkin' know is that!  :)

 

En what the fok je ook leutert, het boeit me amper prick!

Je bent net zo'n debiel als je zoon

en als je voor m'n neus staat, zit heel je broek vol pampersjit!

Dus fok jou en je qanqerkid

en pleur lekker op of ik knal je dood met een tanker sick,

jij fokkin' achterlijke van de pot gerukte irritante bitsj

 

 

 

Yo, wat lig je nu te zeiken steeds?

Rot lekker op met je schijtgepreek want 't boeit mij geen reet,

dat je dat maar in feite weet dus jij moet zwijgen teef!

En geloof me vrij, je wilt niet clashen met me dus vermijdt dit beest

want één klap resulteert in totale destructie en dan ben je d'r geheid geweest!

Ik heb geen zin in geweld maar als ik aan de bak moet is het gelijk een feest

en dan regent het lijken steeds, bezwijken? Nee!

Dan ben ik all in dus begrijp het eens en stop met het dreigen teef

want je bent net zo intimiderend als een jankend kind

dat bloedt en ligt te krijsen wreed omdat ze van mammie geen pleister kreeg!

Mijn raad is dat je me gewoon moet ontwijken gay,....

ik ben poeslief maar één verkeerde move en ik dump je fokkin' lijk in zee

 

 

 

Dus opbokken, opzouten en optieven!

En dan leven we nog lang en gelukkig....

en anders moet ik een kogel door je kop schieten!

..

 

 

Translation for all non-dutch people..

 

BLA BLA BLA

 

Just another keyboard warrior.


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#30 SuperDrew2k

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 11:31 AM

reminder...this thread is not meant to discuss if or not a value score should be implemented to avoid a draw. the question is...WHAT VALUE SCORE WOULD YOU GIVE TO EACH PIECE?

 

 

"piece value in your opinion?"


Hmm....i wonder where that marshal went

#31 trickz

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 01:44 PM

Psychopatty is a cool boy, lol,......crying about some private messages which he takes literally of course lol.

It's okay to start against me with a big mouth for nothing, then ask my adress but it's not okay when I have a big mouth back,...owkaaaay then, whatever :)

 

 

To stay on topic, here the points for the famous "value system" :

 

Marsh : 20

General : 20

colonel : 12

Major : 10

Captain : 6

Lieutenant : 5

Sergeant : 4

Miner : 3

Scouts : 2

Spy : 1

Bombs : 0

 

 

I'm not a big fan of this value system of course but if we would give the pieces points, then this would be fair for me.

The general is equal to the marshall because suppose you lost the marsh but you took out your opponent's general and you stil have the spy, then you're equal in force,  general + spy equals marshall.

His marshall can't attack you blindly cuz' he needs to guard your general which is in fact your new marshall now.

That's why the general would be equal.

The colonel is only 12 points,....not 15 or more,...and all the other ranks are given fair points as well I think.

The spy is pretty worthless in points to my opinion.

It's the lowest piece on the field so it should get the lowest score as well.

And most of the time the spy doesn't even play in the game cuz' the chance that there will be a trade off with the marsh is more likely than that the marsh would be killed by the spy.

The spy has only some value if you face a lottery player who just doesn't care what he's doing.

And no, you should be rewarded for that,.....the reward is that you take out his marsh with the spy,....not that your spy will still be worth 20 or more points afterwards.

 

Bombs are no points of course cuz' they are unmovable pieces which totally don't affect the rankings on the board.

 

 

This would be my value system IF there was an option to play like this.

However,....this value system should NEVER be implemented as an official rule cuz' it doesn't make sense.

It's only to play FUN GAMES and only then this value system is not such a bad idea.


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#32 PsychoPatty

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 04:28 PM

Psychopatty is a cool boy, lol,......crying about some private messages which he takes literally of course lol.

It's okay to start against me with a big mouth for nothing, then ask my adress but it's not okay when I have a big mouth back,...owkaaaay then, whatever :)

 

 

 I suggest you go see a doctor.. I see you some signs of schitzofrenic people..

 

- You started to message me with your useless poetry

- You started insulting over a signature

- All your poetry is just evidence of a person who lives in a world which doesn't excist..

 

When your done with the doctor i suggest you get some work..

 

- If you had spended the time you spend on this forum and on the site into work, maybe you could do something with your life or for the community

- Hopeless , useless,  miserable piece of wanna be rebel talking about "bilderberg".. You ain't on their level poor bastard.

 

 

 


 

 

 

 

 

 

To stay on topic, here the points for the famous "value system" :

 

Marsh : 20

General : 20

colonel : 12

Major : 10

Captain : 6

Lieutenant : 5

Sergeant : 4

Miner : 3

Scouts : 2

Spy : 1

Bombs : 0

 

 

I'm not a big fan of this value system of course but if we would give the pieces points, then this would be fair for me.

The general is equal to the marshall because suppose you lost the marsh but you took out your opponent's general and you stil have the spy, then you're equal in force,  general + spy equals marshall.

His marshall can't attack you blindly cuz' he needs to guard your general which is in fact your new marshall now.

That's why the general would be equal.

The colonel is only 12 points,....not 15 or more,...and all the other ranks are given fair points as well I think.

The spy is pretty worthless in points to my opinion.

It's the lowest piece on the field so it should get the lowest score as well.

And most of the time the spy doesn't even play in the game cuz' the chance that there will be a trade off with the marsh is more likely than that the marsh would be killed by the spy.

The spy has only some value if you face a lottery player who just doesn't care what he's doing.

And no, you should be rewarded for that,.....the reward is that you take out his marsh with the spy,....not that your spy will still be worth 20 or more points afterwards.

 

Bombs are no points of course cuz' they are unmovable pieces which totally don't affect the rankings on the board.

 

 Once again, proof your simple minded.. Lowest piece on the field deserves lowest points?

Man, if one is managed to keep their spy alive it defintly should be rewarded with points..

 

 

Spy and General equils Marshall?!

Kidding me? A marshall can move 1 space, The gen+spy combo needs atleast 2-4 moves to keep on track with a marshall..

Disguise, back up for the spy (against scouts) and the general needs to move itself too..

 

 

The spy has only use of value if you face a lottery player? its truelly hilarious.. There would be no stratego without a spy.. If there is one piece which prevents from going all the way, it is the spy..

 

Whole strategies are based on -look-a-like- spy, bluffin and going..

 

 

 

 

 

Off of Trickz his nonesense..

 

 

 

My pieces value (as how i think of it as i do at the moment)

20 Bombs

30 Scouts

50 Sergeants

70 Miners

70 Lieutenants

 

 

100 Captains 

120 Major

120 Spy

 

140 Colonel

160 General

180 Marshall

 

Why do i have the spy and miner at high value?

 

Because they decide the game.. These are the pieces which are hunted for, so if they are able to survive,untill the moment an auto-end comes in, they should be rewarded

 

Why ain't the higher pieces has more value?

 

Over half them games which end in a draw, these pieces are hardly involved..

 

And if so , why make a marshall be worth like 300 points while he alone can't trap and kill a piece on its own. (atleast not at the moment)

So for me 2 captains should atleast equil a general/marshall.

 

 

 

 

 

 


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#33 trickz

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 05:19 PM

 

 I suggest you go see a doctor.. I see you some signs of schitzofrenic people..

 

- You started to message me with your useless poetry

- You started insulting over a signature

- All your poetry is just evidence of a person who lives in a world which doesn't excist..

 

When your done with the doctor i suggest you get some work..

 

- If you had spended the time you spend on this forum and on the site into work, maybe you could do something with your life or for the community

- Hopeless , useless,  miserable piece of wanna be rebel talking about "bilderberg".. You ain't on their level poor bastard.

 

 

 


 

 

 

 

 Once again, proof your simple minded.. Lowest piece on the field deserves lowest points?

Man, if one is managed to keep their spy alive it defintly should be rewarded with points..

 

 

Spy and General equils Marshall?!

Kidding me? A marshall can move 1 space, The gen+spy combo needs atleast 2-4 moves to keep on track with a marshall..

Disguise, back up for the spy (against scouts) and the general needs to move itself too..

 

 

The spy has only use of value if you face a lottery player? its truelly hilarious.. There would be no stratego without a spy.. If there is one piece which prevents from going all the way, it is the spy..

 

Whole strategies are based on -look-a-like- spy, bluffin and going..

 

 

 

 

 

Off of Trickz his nonesense..

 

 

 

My pieces value (as how i think of it as i do at the moment)

20 Bombs

30 Scouts

50 Sergeants

70 Miners

70 Lieutenants

 

 

100 Captains 

120 Major

120 Spy

 

140 Colonel

160 General

180 Marshall

 

Why do i have the spy and miner at high value?

 

Because they decide the game.. These are the pieces which are hunted for, so if they are able to survive,untill the moment an auto-end comes in, they should be rewarded

 

Why ain't the higher pieces has more value?

 

Over half them games which end in a draw, these pieces are hardly involved..

 

And if so , why make a marshall be worth like 300 points while he alone can't trap and kill a piece on its own. (atleast not at the moment)

So for me 2 captains should atleast equil a general/marshall.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1) You started in another topic against me out of nothing while I didn't even say anything against you and only then you got a pm

2) I don't owe you any explanation what I do, or about how much I'm on the site or on the forum,...but fine, if you want to nag about that, you do that, I have no problems with that :D

3) my poetry is just some entertainment, that's all.....but I guess you take it all so literally cuz' the internet is your life and therefore you probably don't know anymore what's fiction or not.  You are even so bloody serious and fanatic that you immediately want to punch my face after you start a conversation against me in another topic and I replied back with an entertaining rhyme,.....if that's already a reason to ask my adress,....owkaay then, you're probably used to nothing and maybe you need to learn about the real serious stuff in this world :)

4) I only talked about Bilderberg because lucky papa accused me for not being an adult and this simply for the reason that I'm not a big fan of the Royalties.  I never mentionned anywhere that "I want to be on their level" or something.

Like it's a big dream that I want a 33th degree in the freemasonry, yeah right, wtf :D

It's weird that that's your conclusion but maybe you should read first why I mentionned this word in the first place.

5) Managing to keep the spy alive is pretty useless I'd say.  What if your opponent is really agressive and he lotto's, jacks a captain with his marsh that's being backed up with your marsh.  You know he doesn't care and he's about to hit a colonel if you don't commit suicide,......then what's the use of keeping the spy alive?  You think the spy would stop lottery players? I don't think so.

Think about it,.....a lottery with the marsh would mean you have 7/40 chance that it's going the wrong way.

So that means you're a 5 to 1 favourite to risk it.  That's why the lottery charges will never go away in the game.

Without the spy there would be no Stratego you say,.....you can say that of all the pieces on the board

and without the lottery chargers Stratego wouldn't be Stratego as well,.....it's a part of the game and everyone knows it can happen to him once and a while. 

6) Of course the general is equal to the marshall,.....at least if your opponent's general is gone but he still has the marsh but you have the spy.  But my general is in fact acting like a marshall cuz' it can take any piece of my opponent except for one.

The same for my opponent's marshall,...he can take everything except the spy so mathematically that's equal, no?

So what's the use of your marshall if you can't use it and you have to guard the general?

Only if your marsh is unknown and you use some pretend-marsh-pieces, you could have a chance of outpowering me.

But you could only harm if you knew my general, otherwise there would probably be a trade off of all the pieces

and suppose you only have the marsh left with a sealed flag and I have the general and the spy left with a sealed flag,...

then I'm stronger in fact.  I can use my general now as bate for the marshall so that he would follow it.

I will even let him take it.  My spy doesn't even have to back him up.  The moment my general gets killed I just move the spy so that you can't escape anymore, on a diagonal.

So this means you can't take the general out cuz' if you do, your marsh won't be able to move anymore and I would win.

7)You say the whole strategy is to disguise the spy and to keep the miners.

For you they are the most important pieces,...that's your vision maybe but for me the spy is mostly nothing more than a slow scout and I consider miners as strong scouts.  I almost never go for the flag, it's not my style of play.

I think outpowering is much more important than trying to outnumber someone.

Worst case scenario is that I can't win the game because not enough pieces but I'm sure I won't lose either if I'm at least two ranks up and I have a corner sealed flag.

8) You call me simple minded,......fine with me but how can you be simpleminded AND be a silver player at the same time?

Only with luck you think?  I'm maybe not the greatest player, that's true but at least I'm silver and you're not.

So If I'm simple, what makes that you then?  Supersimple? :)

9) Thx for explaning your value system and thx for admitting I'm right.  The marsh is 180 points for you and the general and the spy combined are worth 280 points.  But yet you say that the marsh vs the general and spy are not equal?

Talking about skitzofrenic issues.... :D

10) You say the spy and the miners decide the game,.....that's not true,....that's only true in a x-percentage of all the games.

Every piece could be a decider on the board.  It could be that you win the game with a brilliant scout that detects the marsh.

It could be that you win the game with a captain that takes out a lieutenant,...a miner who takes out the bomb before the flag, the spy, the general that kills a colonel,...it could be anything! 

And because there is not one holy tactic that is the truth, every player will search his own truth in the game.

Some players are real good in grabbing the flag as soon as possible and other players are really good in hiding.

Or bluffing, disguising,....and other players just go for the Blitz.

It's like football,....there are so many tactics to play and not one tactic is better than another tactic.

It all depends on your opponent, how he's standing, how he plays,...

But if I'm silver and I almost never go for the flag,....then I don't think that's really bad or is it?

If so, I would probably never become silver in the first place.

11) I haven't used a single rhyme this time :D


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#34 Luckypapa

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 07:52 PM

4) I only talked about Bilderberg because lucky papa accused me for not being an adult and this simply for the reason that I'm not a big fan of the Royalties.  I never mentionned anywhere that "I want to be on their level" or something.

 

I only said you are not an adult because you show no respect. You are only insulting people and then you think everybody is laughing. Wake up Trickz, the only one who laughs with you is the man in the mirror. 

I don't care if you are not a fan of our queen or king. But I do care if you insult them or other people in cluding this forum, because it is useless. So please, stop it. When you give respect to people, they will respect you too.

That's my message to you and the last word I will spend about it.

 

                                                                                                              Lucky


The secret of happiness is not in doing what you like, but in liking what you should do.


#35 trickz

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 08:04 PM

I don't respect the new king Lucky Papa.

And I'm pretty sure he won't respect me either so what's the problem?

The only one having a problem with it is you.


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#36 SuperDrew2k

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 08:50 PM

thank you both for participating


Hmm....i wonder where that marshal went

#37 PsychoPatty

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 08:56 PM

1) You started in another topic against me out of nothing while I didn't even say anything against you and only then you got a pm

2) I don't owe you any explanation what I do, or about how much I'm on the site or on the forum,...but fine, if you want to nag about that, you do that, I have no problems with that :D

3) my poetry is just some entertainment, that's all.....but I guess you take it all so literally cuz' the internet is your life and therefore you probably don't know anymore what's fiction or not.  You are even so bloody serious and fanatic that you immediately want to punch my face after you start a conversation against me in another topic and I replied back with an entertaining rhyme,.....if that's already a reason to ask my adress,....owkaay then, you're probably used to nothing and maybe you need to learn about the real serious stuff in this world :)

4) I only talked about Bilderberg because lucky papa accused me for not being an adult and this simply for the reason that I'm not a big fan of the Royalties.  I never mentionned anywhere that "I want to be on their level" or something.

Like it's a big dream that I want a 33th degree in the freemasonry, yeah right, wtf :D

It's weird that that's your conclusion but maybe you should read first why I mentionned this word in the first place.

5) Managing to keep the spy alive is pretty useless I'd say.  What if your opponent is really agressive and he lotto's, jacks a captain with his marsh that's being backed up with your marsh.  You know he doesn't care and he's about to hit a colonel if you don't commit suicide,......then what's the use of keeping the spy alive?  You think the spy would stop lottery players? I don't think so.

Think about it,.....a lottery with the marsh would mean you have 7/40 chance that it's going the wrong way.

So that means you're a 5 to 1 favourite to risk it.  That's why the lottery charges will never go away in the game.

Without the spy there would be no Stratego you say,.....you can say that of all the pieces on the board

and without the lottery chargers Stratego wouldn't be Stratego as well,.....it's a part of the game and everyone knows it can happen to him once and a while. 

6) Of course the general is equal to the marshall,.....at least if your opponent's general is gone but he still has the marsh but you have the spy.  But my general is in fact acting like a marshall cuz' it can take any piece of my opponent except for one.

The same for my opponent's marshall,...he can take everything except the spy so mathematically that's equal, no?

So what's the use of your marshall if you can't use it and you have to guard the general?

Only if your marsh is unknown and you use some pretend-marsh-pieces, you could have a chance of outpowering me.

But you could only harm if you knew my general, otherwise there would probably be a trade off of all the pieces

and suppose you only have the marsh left with a sealed flag and I have the general and the spy left with a sealed flag,...

then I'm stronger in fact.  I can use my general now as bate for the marshall so that he would follow it.

I will even let him take it.  My spy doesn't even have to back him up.  The moment my general gets killed I just move the spy so that you can't escape anymore, on a diagonal.

So this means you can't take the general out cuz' if you do, your marsh won't be able to move anymore and I would win.

7)You say the whole strategy is to disguise the spy and to keep the miners.

For you they are the most important pieces,...that's your vision maybe but for me the spy is mostly nothing more than a slow scout and I consider miners as strong scouts.  I almost never go for the flag, it's not my style of play.

I think outpowering is much more important than trying to outnumber someone.

Worst case scenario is that I can't win the game because not enough pieces but I'm sure I won't lose either if I'm at least two ranks up and I have a corner sealed flag.

8) You call me simple minded,......fine with me but how can you be simpleminded AND be a silver player at the same time?

Only with luck you think?  I'm maybe not the greatest player, that's true but at least I'm silver and you're not.

So If I'm simple, what makes that you then?  Supersimple? :)

9) Thx for explaning your value system and thx for admitting I'm right.  The marsh is 180 points for you and the general and the spy combined are worth 280 points.  But yet you say that the marsh vs the general and spy are not equal?

Talking about skitzofrenic issues.... :D

10) You say the spy and the miners decide the game,.....that's not true,....that's only true in a x-percentage of all the games.

Every piece could be a decider on the board.  It could be that you win the game with a brilliant scout that detects the marsh.

It could be that you win the game with a captain that takes out a lieutenant,...a miner who takes out the bomb before the flag, the spy, the general that kills a colonel,...it could be anything! 

And because there is not one holy tactic that is the truth, every player will search his own truth in the game.

Some players are real good in grabbing the flag as soon as possible and other players are really good in hiding.

Or bluffing, disguising,....and other players just go for the Blitz.

It's like football,....there are so many tactics to play and not one tactic is better than another tactic.

It all depends on your opponent, how he's standing, how he plays,...

But if I'm silver and I almost never go for the flag,....then I don't think that's really bad or is it?

If so, I would probably never become silver in the first place.

11) I haven't used a single rhyme this time :D

 

1), funny, as it really started with your so immature reaction at http://forum.strateg...r-person/page-2

 

2) A shame a mod sniped my replie and took5 it out of context.

 

3) your poetry is annoying as ♥♥♥♥.. every 2-3 messages of you contains total bullshi only because it rhymes.. Grow up, youngster.

 

4) You keep on taking my text out of context. just as the son part on your stupid rhymes.. You ain't at illuminati's level, so dont mind their bussiness, As long as you don't pay 60% of your income to your goverment you ain't got shi to talk/complain about.

You will find out as soon as you grow up

 

5) managing to keep the spy alive is useless, yet a big accomplisment.. once again, Without a spy, WE ALL USED LOTTERY.

 

6) Silver player doesnt proof you ain't simple minded, it proofed you played alot.. With that amount of games almost any1 will be a silver player, you will find out next year

 

7) you truelly are skitzo.. First learn what it means, after, read 2x before you come up with bullshii, i said.. in game a marshall aint equil to a general+spy.. Because my point system rewards the weakest thing surviving doesn't mean i ment different.. 

In my point system a miner equils a lieutenant.

It doesn't mean in-game they are equil... 

 

point system is about the auto-end games, dipshii..

 

8) miners and spy makes stratego as it is..  low pieces who can take out  "the killer pieces".. They do decide the game.. Just because the gameplay is evolved in the past decennia's doesn't mean the principles has changed..


Untitled-1.jpg

When I say sucker, I mean Good Game, Sucker!


#38 trickz

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 10:03 PM

1) Funny,....as it started way before that,...http://forum.strateg...r-person/page-2

You became angry because I called you a Cheryl groupie,....this because there only came bs out of your mouth just like Cheryl so it was not so far fetched.  Why it was nonsense is clearly readable with my explanation.

But no,...a joke can't be made I guess cuz' afterwards you started to react out of nothing (there was no cause, yet you reacted) but I guess that was still "revenge" for the fact I called you a groupie in the other topic.

You did that in the topic below and you started with "shut it trickzbitsj", just to back up Drew with his value system.

I didn't even talk to you,.....watch : http://forum.strateg...n-your-opinion/

2) I can understand that the mods sniped some text of you,....they don't do that without a reason you know.

3) I don't care if you like the poetry or not. I don't force you to read it so don't read it then.

Don't understand your problem,....it's like you alone has the right to determine everything here and anyone who has some critics about it, is immediately called someone from the stone age, an ISF adept, a stupid purist or he's being attacked personally and otherwise you ask their adress,..........you just can't deal with the fact that there are people who think completely different than you.

But you don't care, just like with the rules, you said that literally so don't cry if I think your vision is straight bs.

4) I even pay more than sixty procent on taxes,...most people do actually. 

I don't know exactly why you're mentionning the Illuminati in this topic,....nothing to do with it but I guess if you can't make valid arguments, then you immediately go for a personal attack and take some quotes from other topics to "back it up".

Of course you don't read in that topic WHY I mentionned Bilderberg,.....as long as it suits you, it's fine to use against me of course :)

5) How is it a big accomplishment to keep your spy on the board?

Suppose your opponent plays lotto and he attacks with his marsh on the complete other side of your spy where your marsh is.

He takes out some lowbees, perhaps a captain and then he commit suicide with the marsh.

The rest is also a trade-off,...............now tell me WHY it's an accomplishment to keep your spy on the board now?

He doesn't have a function anymore, he's pretty useless and he's only good to explore, knowing he will die anyway.

You didn't even have to do the efforts to keep 'm on the board as well.  You didn't have to disguise or bluff anything so why should you then be rewarded for god's sake? 

You also claim that "without the spy, we all would lotto!",...it doesn't matter because the lottocharges will happen anyway and the risk of hitting a bomb is much higher than to be attacked by the spy.  That chance is 6 to 1.

So then you could also say : "without the bombs, there would be lotto all over the place!".

With the bombs as well,...with the spy as well,....it is just irrelevant.  It doesn't affect a lotto player at all.

6) What you say about silverplayers is also complete bs.  Doesn't make any sense at all.

And this is pure maths btw so I suppose you learn that on school right? :)

So according to you a anyone can be a silverplayer but they just have to play a lot.

For every silverplayer there is, there's gotta be a counterpart otherwise you can't have the term silver cuz' it doesn't mean you're higher then.  If someone becomes silver, it means he has beaten enough players to gain the points to reach the silver ladder.

So it means also that there are enough players that are being beaten and their losses allow people to enter the silver leagues.

If you look to the bronze league, then nr. 250 has about 440 points, being a bronze general.

It also means that there are at least 700 or more players BELOW that score from bronze colonel to bronze spy.

There are about 80 silver players so their percentage is about 10 procent of the complete site.

So this means that 90 procent of all the people here play in the bronze league, they're not silver.

Therefore only 10 procent is silver and THAT'S NOT ANYONE. 

And the most silverplayers didn't even play so much games.  Some people reach silver within 40 games.

Another one does it in 500 games but he still represents a player in the top ten percent of this site!

It's just impossible to be simple minded AND being in the silver league at the same time.

Nine out of ten players on this site won't make it for the moment,....do the maths :)

7) The value system of your good friend Drew was an idea in order to prevent an autodraw.

With the points, it could be decided which player would win if the flag could not be taken or the opponent's pieces could not be killed.

If I look to your version of this system,......with the situation as follows :

You have only the marsh and a sealed flag and I have the general and the spy with a sealed flag.

You can't kill me and if you do, you woud probably be trapped by the spy.

This game could go on forever but according to your version of the value system I should win.

280-180,.............MATH,....but I guess you're not so good in math.

In math it's also one or the other,...you can't have two outcomes.

You're claiming that the marsh should be rewarded cuz' the general and the spy are not equal

but the same time your version clearly states it's the opposite way.

Do you still know what you're saying? LOL! :)

8) Same for the miners,....suppose you have a sealed flag and you have two miners left.

I have two sergeants left,.......according to your value system your miners are more worth while they can never reach the flag if they're not in position (I can't continuously chase so I have to take care that the miners will never even come near the flag).

If I can do that and just follow you on one line around the lake, then this is a perfect example of a draw.

Although I'm the strongest on the board but you won't hear me saying that the sergeants deserve to win the game.

But you would claim this right away problaby.  You would blame the player with the miners that he fokked up and that you should be rewarded.  Pretty skitzo if YOUR value system clearly states that the miners are more worth than the sergeants. Lol :)

9) The point is indeed the autodraw,.....the value system is an idea to get rid of the autodraw.

That's also the reason why the general and the spy together are STRONGER than the marshall.

You must know cuz' you designed your value system, lol.

But then suddenly that's not the case according to you?  So the marshall is only stronger if you as player can still reach the flag or kill all his pieces?  But the moment you can't kill me and you can't reach my flag anymore, THEN you should be rewarded and then suddenly the marsh is stronger than my general-spy-combination?  Pretty skitzo dude :)

10) Miners and spy make the game as it is?  I could also say that the bombs and the marsh make the game.

I can even say that the general and the lieutenants decide the game.  It's all true because every game is different.

It's not because the miners can unlock the flag, that they therefore automatically decide games.

It's not because the spy can murder the marshall that he therefore automatically decide games.

The chance is 1/40 in each game with the spy and the miners have 6/40 chance in succeeding.

Those are not strong percentages to decide a game you know.  It's POSSIBLE that they decide a game but what really decides the game is how you play and what you are willing to offer to gain information.

And with all the respect,...I think there are much more pieces to gain MORE information about your opponent's army than a lousy miner or a hiding spy (he doesn't even gather information at all, he just waits for the bate).

If you truly think you can decide a game with miners and the spy against top opponents,...then it's clearly obvious that you need to evolve your game cuz' otherwise you won't make it to silver at all.

If anyone can do that according to you,........then show me the evidence? 

You're a bronze marshall, you played more than 500 games and you still didn't reach silver.

So you're with the 90 procent although you clearly claim that ANYONE can make it.

And you? I guess not,... Again,...pretty skitzo dude :)

 

 

But sure, whatever,....think what you want, I don't care.

The fact you even invent a value system proofs once more that you're not with the 10 percent on this site.

They don't need such systems to decide games you know,....they just grab the flag or they just kill you

and yet they all have one thing in common with you,.....they also HATE draws, they play for the win.

The difference is that they pull it off, you don't and that's why you invented this value system.

Think about that! ;)


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#39 SuperDrew2k

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 10:19 PM

ATTENTION ADMINS & MODS

 

please dont go and lock this thread due to any off topic / lengthy nasty replies...i would really like to see what it gathers in time.

and i would suggest for this and other threads that you read / dont like where its heading...just edit the comments  with "off topic reply"...write that in the beginning of the comment with bold face lettering in order to warn future readers. dont ruin / lock a thread just because a couple of people are having a heated debate that gets side tracked.

 

my two cents,

thank you


Hmm....i wonder where that marshal went

#40 SuperDrew2k

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 10:35 PM

good god  trickz...your last comment reminded me of this movie / song

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=3khTntOxX-k

 

i swear, if youre not writting annoying poetry that makes no sense, you are writing novels...knock it off!

 

a lot of what you say i would like to counter...but you say so much wrong at once, i dont want to spend an hour responding to it.

 

have you ever heard the saying "less is more"?


Hmm....i wonder where that marshal went




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