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piece value in your opinion?


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#1 SuperDrew2k

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 03:37 AM

i decided to make this into thread...what would you value each piece on the board (from the start)?

so, in away....if the game was partly played, this piece value total score would determine who was winning.

 

marsh... 33 points

gen........25

spy.........20

col..........10 each

maj.........8

capt........7

liet..........6

serg.......5

miner.....4

scout.....3

bomb.....2

 

total starting score...250

 

(i did have the marshal at 30 points but changed it to 33 to make an even 250)

 

the other thread where i mentioned this, i was criticized for valuing the the spy so high but truth is, if you keep your spy tucked away safely in the back row...you can really limit what your opponent's marshal with decoys. once that spy is gone the marshal can go on a kill frenzy. 

 

i was also told that the general and marshall are equal in value and that bombs still in play dont deserve a score. i thought that was hilarious. is a colonel equal to a major too? lol...and usually when you defuse a bomb, that miner dies immediately after...so it would only be fair that the bomb is collected with a price.

 

im sort of on the fence about the miner's value but really a scout can be a very useful piece too...not just a pawn like someone told me.

 

so what do you guys think...care to grade them or is that against the ISF rules?


Hmm....i wonder where that marshal went

#2 trickz

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 01:12 PM

 

i was also told that the general and marshall are equal in value and that bombs still in play dont deserve a score. i thought that was hilarious. is a colonel equal to a major too? lol...and usually when you defuse a bomb, that miner dies immediately after...so it would only be fair that the bomb is collected with a price.

 

 

You're a simple nugget.

So it's hilarious that bombs don't get value points?!  That's just crazy.

And of course the bomb has its price cuz' the moment the bomb gets removed, the miner dies usually, THAT'S the price.

But no, according to your ridiculous BS, there has to be another price as well, offering the miner for a bomb is not enough for you.

You still don't answer my questions regarding some situations I've described with YOUR value system.

You still don't answer what happens when you have only the spy and all your bombs left and I have a sealed corner flag and the scout left.  Should you win then as well with your stupid points while I'm stronger and faster and I can trap you perhaps with the 2s-rule?

 

Your suggestion is even so ridiculous that the ISF has even never thought about this option from the very first moment they came in existence.

 

Or you grab the flag or you kill all your opponent's pieces,.....only then can you win the game.

Only then will you be rewarded with the victory.

Pretty obvious conclusion.


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#3 Enigma

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 01:50 PM

i decided to make this into thread...what would you value each piece on the board (from the start)?

so, in away....if the game was partly played, this piece value total score would determine who was winning.

 

marsh... 33 points

gen........25

spy.........20

col..........10 each

maj.........8

capt........7

liet..........6

serg.......5

miner.....4

scout.....3

bomb.....2

 

total starting score...250

 

(i did have the marshal at 30 points but changed it to 33 to make an even 250)

 

the other thread where i mentioned this, i was criticized for valuing the the spy so high but truth is, if you keep your spy tucked away safely in the back row...you can really limit what your opponent's marshal with decoys. once that spy is gone the marshal can go on a kill frenzy. 

 

i was also told that the general and marshall are equal in value and that bombs still in play dont deserve a score. i thought that was hilarious. is a colonel equal to a major too? lol...and usually when you defuse a bomb, that miner dies immediately after...so it would only be fair that the bomb is collected with a price.

 

im sort of on the fence about the miner's value but really a scout can be a very useful piece too...not just a pawn like someone told me.

 

so what do you guys think...care to grade them or is that against the ISF rules?

 

The most valuable piece is the only one you didn't list: the flag.  Other than that, I think you have the spy over-valued, and the miners under-valued.  



#4 SuperDrew2k

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 02:42 AM

You're a simple nugget.

So it's hilarious that bombs don't get value points?!  That's just crazy.

And of course the bomb has its price cuz' the moment the bomb gets removed, the miner dies usually, THAT'S the price.

But no, according to your ridiculous BS, there has to be another price as well, offering the miner for a bomb is not enough for you.

You still don't answer my questions regarding some situations I've described with YOUR value system.

You still don't answer what happens when you have only the spy and all your bombs left and I have a sealed corner flag and the scout left.  Should you win then as well with your stupid points while I'm stronger and faster and I can trap you perhaps with the 2s-rule?

 

Your suggestion is even so ridiculous that the ISF has even never thought about this option from the very first moment they came in existence.

 

Or you grab the flag or you kill all your opponent's pieces,.....only then can you win the game.

Only then will you be rewarded with the victory.

Pretty obvious conclusion.

 

 


trixie...i could answer your questions...but whats the use? they will just fly over your head like everything else ive told you.

 

i dont worship the ISF like you Mr. minion....i think the game could be much better...the ISF/people like you have kept stratego in the dark ages.

 

The most valuable piece is the only one you didn't list: the flag.  Other than that, I think you have the spy over-valued, and the miners under-valued.  

 

the flag was obviously not worth a score due the fact if it is captured, it would be obvious who was winning. correct? and the spy is definitely a high value piece...an unknown spy can make a marshal useless if played the right way.

all it takes is one miner at the end, so since you start with five, they really dont deserve a high value. the spy on the other hand...you only start with one....one shot, one kill!

 

 

i imagine 99.9% of you have never played a game with the rescue or economy option?...well with economy you earn "money" with every piece you kill....and then you can buy back pieces from your graveyard.

 

examples:

 

kill a marshal, you get 9 bucks...to buy your marshal back, it costs 27 bucks

 

general...kill / 8   buy/ 24

 

colonel...kil / 7   buy / 21  

 

major...kill / 6   buy / 18

 

capt...kill / 5   buy / 15

 

liet....kill / 4   buy / 12

 

serg....kill / 3   buy / 9

 

miner...kill / 2   buy / 6

 

scout...kill / 1  buy / 3

 

spy....kill / 1   buy / 15

 

bomb....kill / 5  buy / 15

 

hey enigma...notice that buying your flag back is not an option?

 

 

in away, the price value when playing economy gives retrospect of each piece value.

 

i didnt make that table up...that is how the scoring works when playing the "economy" option...it is a fun game that most of you will never know...be sure to thank the ISF for that.

 

dont let the economy score confuse you though...this thread is about what value you have in play...so instead of thinking...hes up a captain, and 2 miners and a spy, but i have both colonels and no miners, whos winning?....you could have an actual game total to look at while playing to get a good sense of where the odds are.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Hmm....i wonder where that marshal went

#5 trickz

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 03:03 AM

Drew : I will ask it now for the third time already,....you still haven't answered anything.

I give you a logic fair situation according to your value system.

You're the one that brought this idea to here but you're too afraid to explain your rules?

No, instead you're trying to be personal for whatever reason,...probably because you can't find a decent answer to the problem in this situation which is based on YOUR value system!

 

I will ask it the third time now, answer the question with yes or no.

 

You have six bombs left, sealed flag and only the spy.

I have a corner sealed flag so only two bombs and one scout.

According to your value system, you should win so it means you should say yes.

If you do, then DON'T AVOID MY QUESTION AND ANSWER IT!

 

 

Btw,...you are really nuts by saying that I'm an ISF-guy cuz' if you go through my posts, you will see literally that I call the ISF International Stratego Facists because of the exploiting of the 2s-rule where you can't dodge an attack if you're not standing on a diagonal path the moment you're being attacked.

I also don't agree with their vague explanation of continuously chasing in their section 11.3,...multi interpretable and I've explained pages long WHY.

So don't come with your BS that I adore the ISF.

 

You just say randomly ridiculous stuff that isn't backed up at all and if someone critisize it, you immediately start with random personal stuff.

 

If I don't understand it like you say, just like all the rest that I so called don't understand according to you,....then EXPLAIN YOUR VALUE SYSTEM WITH THE SITUATION ABOVE.

 

 

I will give you one credit though,....as a FUN GAME it would be indeed nice to buy pieces back in the game.

But this should be an option you can choose when playing a friend.

This game doesn't need any changes, this game needs to stay like it is.

If you don't like that, then go play other games. 

The only game this site offers in a competitive way for the moment is classic Stratego.

Why for god's sake do you always want to change the original game?

The fans of the true game can't have their game or what?

Do we, the "purists" or the "ISF-adepts" forbid your special games?

You play whatever you want, however you want with whoever you want.

But according to you, we don't have that right and if we say something about it,

then we're living in the stone age or we're brainwashed or we're too conservative and blablabla.

 

If you didn't like this game, then why are you here?

Why are you on Metaforge as well then?

 

 

Try to come with facts and valid arguments next time.

Or at least try.... :)


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#6 SuperDrew2k

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 03:08 AM

yes...because you suck for not being able to kill my spy before you got down to one movable piece

 

there is your answer


Hmm....i wonder where that marshal went

#7 trickz

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 03:16 AM

yes...because you suck for not being able to kill my spy before you got down to one movable piece

 

there is your answer

 

 

I'm stronger than you on the board but I suk because you can't kill me?

I think you suk because you can't win and I can and I will kill you so you will lose :)

I will trap your spy so that it can't move anymore and I can do that because I have the speed.

Your fault that you only have a worthless spy and that i can even butcher you with a scout, lol.

 

So your value system is now officially being labelled as being garbage.

You just confirmed that with this explanation. :)


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#8 SuperDrew2k

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 03:26 AM

its beyond you

 

but for poops and gigles tell me this...you are playing a million dollar game of stratego.

 

at the end you have a flag in the corner with 2 bombs and a marshal

 

your opponent has a flag in the corner with 2 bombs and a general

 

would you admit the game was a draw or would you want the million dollars because you had an obviously higher piece?

 

the spy and bomb values were obviously confusing you to the point of having a game score in effect


Hmm....i wonder where that marshal went

#9 trickz

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 03:33 AM

still avoiding my question,   "it's beyond me", whatever...

poops and gigles,...that's indeed the only thing you say in here

 

and the game you describe is clearly a draw

million dollars or a trillion dollars, there's nothing to want because the marsh can't catch the general, end of discussion

you could be stronger but you're not strong enough to kill his general

and suppose the general was a miner, then the marshall would even lose!

depends on the position of the board at least,....if the miner is already standing before the flag and the marshall can only defend it, he will lose for certain because he can't repeatingly chase with the same moves

 

 

btw, I think you're the only one who's confused with your value system

even so much confused that you don't even know what to answer when I describe a logic situation based on your rules

i would easily win with my scout against your spy so all your invented points are garbage


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#10 SuperDrew2k

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 03:37 AM

can you tell me why i suggested the need for a value system?


Hmm....i wonder where that marshal went

#11 trickz

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 03:43 AM

because you're a noob that doesn't want to play with the original games because it's too hard probably


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#12 SuperDrew2k

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 04:46 AM

see....you completely missed why i suggested it...probably sidetracked with your poetry.

 

i said it would be good to have because of crybabies like you that are always complaining about chasers / cheaters...i said it would be good to have a point system established so if a game became a stale mate due to a chaser / runner...the game could end after so many moves with no attack and the player with the highest score on the board would be awarded the victory INSTEAD OF A DRAW.


Hmm....i wonder where that marshal went

#13 Enigma

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 01:58 PM

 

 

the flag was obviously not worth a score due the fact if it is captured, it would be obvious who was winning. correct? and the spy is definitely a high value piece...an unknown spy can make a marshal useless if played the right way.

all it takes is one miner at the end, so since you start with five, they really dont deserve a high value. the spy on the other hand...you only start with one....one shot, one kill!

 

The reason the spy is not that important is that you can still neutralize your opponent's marshal with your own marshal.  If you were missing your own marshal, then your spy does become more important.  

 

Miners are important.  Remember, when all other pieces are gone, 2 miners usually defeat 2 higher ranked pieces.    

 

i imagine 99.9% of you have never played a game with the rescue or economy option?...well with economy you earn "money" with every piece you kill....and then you can buy back pieces from your graveyard.

 

examples:

 

kill a marshal, you get 9 bucks...to buy your marshal back, it costs 27 bucks

 

general...kill / 8   buy/ 24

 

colonel...kil / 7   buy / 21  

 

major...kill / 6   buy / 18

 

capt...kill / 5   buy / 15

 

liet....kill / 4   buy / 12

 

serg....kill / 3   buy / 9

 

miner...kill / 2   buy / 6

 

scout...kill / 1  buy / 3

 

spy....kill / 1   buy / 15

 

bomb....kill / 5  buy / 15

 

hey enigma...notice that buying your flag back is not an option?

 

That's because the flag is PRICELESS.

 

 

 

 



#14 trickz

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 02:00 PM

You're the crybaby if you can't deal with the fact that you can't win a game although you're stronger on the board.

You should only be rewarded with a victory if you can grab the flag or grab all your opponent's pieces.

That's how it has been for the last century,.....so why do we want to change that?

 

 

About the poetry,....good idea, let's make another! :)

 

 

Yo, the poetry got me sidetracked?

No, your value system,...that's the reason my thoughts were gettin' hijacked.

For you it seems the bombs are the most valuable pieces, what a scheiss crap!

Who are you? Mortal Kombat's Sektor or maybe his brother Cyrax?

It doesn't matter cuz' on the board I fight back, I strike mad cuz' I like that

so fok your hyped trash and you'll never get my white flag! :D


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#15 PsychoPatty

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 03:42 PM

Shut it TrickzBitc!..

 

You're just one of those nostalgic fools..

 

 

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself

 

just a little quote I passes by.

 

 

On-topic..

 

I'm one of those people who actually like to see a point-system..

When you're in control of the battlefield you should be awarded..

The one who ain't in control of the battlefield SHOULD NOT be awarded with a draw..

 

It's a strategic battle game.. One we play to win, not to play for a draw..

 

Wars in real life don't end up in draws either..

 

Atleast at real life wars , leaders/commanders were brave enough to surrender/suicide and admit their loss(es)..

 

Did the allied forces "withdraw" their troops just because they couldn't get to the flag (Bin Laden)

NO! they were in control of the battlefield which made them "win" in the end.


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#16 SuperDrew2k

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 09:54 PM

thanks patty, i love people that think. i hope you decide to breed some day.

 

trickz...i wish i knew where you lived...i would send you a huge box of condoms, just in case you ever find a woman and  decide to damage the human race even further. 

 

enigma...feel free to give your preferred value of ALL THE PIECES...im curious to how you would score them


Hmm....i wonder where that marshal went

#17 xa1337

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 01:52 AM

The question is not to know what is the real value of each piece. It is indicated above. (  :D  )
 
More seriously, I have already asked the question. There is no universal answer. It depends on the style of play, setup and strategy used, the adversary and certainly many other factors.
 
For example, in my case, the marshal is "useless" in many cases. I've won a lot of games without even having moved once. And yet it is the character most "strong/important" of the game. (Also because the real power of this piece is to stay hidden and protect the flag, of course).


#18 GaryLShelton

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 06:36 AM

 

I'm one of those people who actually like to see a point-system..

When you're in control of the battlefield you should be awarded..

The one who ain't in control of the battlefield SHOULD NOT be awarded with a draw..

 

It's a strategic battle game.. One we play to win, not to play for a draw..

 

Wars in real life don't end up in draws either..

 

Atleast at real life wars , leaders/commanders were brave enough to surrender/suicide and admit their loss(es)..

 

Did the allied forces "withdraw" their troops just because they couldn't get to the flag (Bin Laden)

NO! they were in control of the battlefield which made them "win" in the end.

 

"When you're in control of the battlefield you should be awarded (sic).."   

 

Patty, what should you be "awarded"?  A medal for meritorious control?  You say yourself that we "play to win".  Well, if that's true, what is the point of "awarding" control?  [Okay.  I'm done with that.  It's "re-warding", Patty.]  The ONLY reward should be victory.  In Stratego, if neither player can capture the other's flag, OR, kill ALL of his opponent's pieces, then the game should be a Draw.  Every time.  Period.  Often times this happens to the player that has a strategic advantage in material.  But, on the other hand, it happens terrifically often, too, that the materially disadvantaged player pulls off a coup and a surprising win. 

 

But if we give each player 200 moves to try to win and no attacks happen, then the game has been given a reasonable chance and now should be declared a Draw under the proposed Auto Draw rule.  If you think the person stronger in material should win, he should prove it by attacking within 200 moves and clearing all doubt as to the game's outcome.  We can't sit on the outside and adjudicate the stronger position with the win.  The game needs to be played.  But if there are no attacks within 200 moves, the game should be done; it's a Draw.

 

Yes, we usually play to win, and it is a game.  But sometimes I would be happy playing for a Draw.  Give me 10 Draws in 10 matches, if it were possible, against Silver players and I'd be a happy camper!

 

And by the way, yes, wars in real life do end up in Draws.  Check out Antietam (Sharpsburg for you Northies) in the Civil War, or Lundy's Lane in the War of 1812, or Sollum in WWII.  Real leaders surrender or call a truce because they have real flesh and blood soldiers to think about.  In that way, we're nothing close to real.  Stratego's a game, pure and simple.  If I think I can win this game, I will darn sure try.  

 

Your comments about Bin Laden are just what I've been saying.  You either control the battlefield well enough to kill all the other guy's pieces, OR, you capture the opponent's flag.  Either way should win.  


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#19 SuperDrew2k

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 07:08 AM

"i won, but i didnt beat him"

 

http://cli.ps/jzPp8


Hmm....i wonder where that marshal went

#20 MajorPane

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 03:52 AM

I have played both economy and rescue on a different site. Loved them both. What's the deal with not having other game options on this site?






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