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#1 TheOptician

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Posted 09 March 2016 - 05:50 PM

If you have a suggestion, a criticism, an idea, a compliment, a comment, a rant, a complaint, a brainwave, a query, a question, a protest or an opinion relating to tournaments then please stick it here in the Suggestions Box, and TC will be happy to look at it.

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#2 Caesar101

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Posted 09 March 2016 - 07:26 PM

Masters Divisions Newspaper, like in the Winter Tourn :)


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#3 cflag

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Posted 09 March 2016 - 10:28 PM

Maybe a kind of 1-2 weeks duration tournament for 10-12 flexible players who are playing every day.Like divs but 1 match every day!


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#4 scottrussia

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 09:46 AM

I just read the Pyramid league and I am somewhat confused as to what the goal is (and somewhat disappointed).

 

We had a structure that ended each cycle with a division format with advancement and relagation.  I thought it worked pretty well.  For various reasons that was scrapped and we implemented a TRP system.  Fine.

 

Now, we are scrapping the TRP's and will have something new in its place.

 

I think this is getting too complicated.

 

We need to have 2 elimination tournaments a year - one champion's league and then one year end type of tournament (that will allow the " best"  to slug it out to truly determine who is the best for that year). 

 

Plus why do we need 17 weeks to play 9 games?  That fully eliminates the possibility of having two elimination tournaments a year.

 

I think the desire to ensure the "top"  players are somehow paired together has totally obscured the importance of HAVING FUN!!!!!

 

If you have to please keep the elimination tournaments and the champion's league - and simply say the last tournament will be seeded using ELO and folks like myself are just plain out of luck no matter the results of the other tournaments. 


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#5 TheOptician

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 02:49 PM

Elimination tournaments will continue to feature.

 

The SpringTourn Single Elimination has been announced to start on May 22nd, and there are plans for a Double Elimination tournament in Winter.

It will become clear that the Pyramid Division system really isn't complicated.

Having just one tournament in the year that allows for flexibility will mean that some players can join when they otherwise wouldn't be able to. (All other tournaments in the TC calendar require a game a week). Pyramid provides this option.

And of course, if you wish to play all your Pyramid games in a much shorter time span, then provided you can arrange with your opponent - that's fine too!

I fail to see how this has anything to do with the 'top' players. Pyramid is about restoring the promotion/relegation aspect, whilst allowing those who have less availability to actually participate.

 

And running the Single Elimination SpringTourn alongside the knock-out stage of the Champions League means it is a tournament specifically designed to run while the 'elite' are otherwise engaged.



#6 Master Mind

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 06:51 AM

Can the Spring Tournament be a 'Double-Elimination tournament' instead of a 'Single-Eliminiation Tournament'?


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#7 scottrussia

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 02:48 PM

Opt,

You announced the single elimination tournament - specifically saying its for the rest of the folks not left in champions league - that's not what we've had in the past.

 

IMO we should have a full blown single elimination tournament for everyone - and a double elimination tournament for everyone - and a champions league and whatever year end claim the mantle of year's best folks want to have.

 

At times some folks may not be able to join all tournaments - the NASF had a tournament last year - I would have like to join but due to time constraints had to pass - that's ok.  I don't think the answer is to create longer tournaments with fewer games.

 

If there is a single elimination tournament, double elimination, and champions league - that's about 6-10 games per year for the average player in tournaments.  And 16-20 for those at the top if they play in every tournament.  Plus whatever year end tournament exists.  To me that is about right - it offers new players the opportunity to have competitive matches and see how far they can go - it offers those at the top three tries at winning a tournament - its often enough to create an atmosphere of inclusion - yet doesn't create huge time demands which would push people away from participating.

 

This will be the third year in a row with a different system - which doesn't provide much continuity nor build up more interest in additional people joining the tournaments.  And in essence by having the single elimination tournament as a "left-over" for those that lose early in champions league we are down to three tournaments.

 

I say lets put the armies on the field three times a year and have at it - and have whatever year end tournament at the end.

 

Regards,

Scott


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#8 TheOptician

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 03:41 PM

Scott, the year doesn't end after the Pyramid - there will still be a Double Elim (The 'season' runs April to April). It just isn't announced yet.

And we haven't said that players still in Champ League can't enter the Single Elim. We're not losing any tournaments in the new season - we will have a Spring & Winter, a Champ League, and Masters is being replaced by Pyramid (which allows players with less availability to actually play in a tournament). So I don't think your criticism is grounded in any facts.

Your other remaining point is continuity - something that the Pyramid will provide along with the interest of ongoing promotion and relegation.

#9 scottrussia

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Posted 25 March 2017 - 07:09 PM

Actually I think the facts are on my side in this discussion.

 

We had promotion and relegation.  Divisions provided that.  We switched to TRP's.  The reason for that was 1. So that the top players - specifically newer players wouldn't have to spend three years before being in their " rightful " division.  and 2. To encourage people to participate during the year.

 

During the discussion of this change I pointed out that 20 people would believe themselves as deserving of being in the first group - and what happened?  We had a big discussion over people being unhappy a few folks were in the fourth or fifth division (or didn't qualify at all).

 

Now, we are going to have Pyramid.  Based not on what your army actually does in the three tournaments - but rather on some other standard.  You said (and I quote from your post) "rest assured that this will give fair opportunity for those players who do not play as much to qualify for a Division in line with their standard".   Which means that its about ensuring a few players are assured of their rightful spot regardless of whether or not they participate in the three tournaments and how well they do. 

 

Now, given that - and given your statement about the single elimination tournament "With the elite battling it out in the Champions League, this may be an opportunity for someone new to take the prized Flowerpot Trophy".  Are we going to have a single elimination tournament like we've had previously in terms of participation?  I'd have to assume based on your statement that we will not.

 

If we are going to scrap the TRP system - then we should go back to the old division system that existed.  That allows someone that is very good but has a tight schedule to participate in a tournament and not " lose their spot " so to speak due to their schedule this year.  Yes, it takes three or four years for the new great player to reach the 1st division.  So what.   

 

I fail to see how someone that actively participates in the tournaments run by the TC benefits from these changes.  One tournament is expecting fewer top players to participate - and another is being set up to accommodate those that do NOT participate but believe themselves to be rightfully in a certain tier (or at least start in that tier). 


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#10 TheOptician

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Posted 25 March 2017 - 09:06 PM

Actually I think the facts are on my side in this discussion.

 

We had promotion and relegation.  Divisions provided that.  We switched to TRP's.  The reason for that was 1. So that the top players - specifically newer players wouldn't have to spend three years before being in their " rightful " division.  and 2. To encourage people to participate during the year.

 

During the discussion of this change I pointed out that 20 people would believe themselves as deserving of being in the first group - and what happened?  We had a big discussion over people being unhappy a few folks were in the fourth or fifth division (or didn't qualify at all).

 

Now, we are going to have Pyramid.  Based not on what your army actually does in the three tournaments - but rather on some other standard.  You said (and I quote from your post) "rest assured that this will give fair opportunity for those players who do not play as much to qualify for a Division in line with their standard".   Which means that its about ensuring a few players are assured of their rightful spot regardless of whether or not they participate in the three tournaments and how well they do. 

 

Now, given that - and given your statement about the single elimination tournament "With the elite battling it out in the Champions League, this may be an opportunity for someone new to take the prized Flowerpot Trophy".  Are we going to have a single elimination tournament like we've had previously in terms of participation?  I'd have to assume based on your statement that we will not.

 

If we are going to scrap the TRP system - then we should go back to the old division system that existed.  That allows someone that is very good but has a tight schedule to participate in a tournament and not " lose their spot " so to speak due to their schedule this year.  Yes, it takes three or four years for the new great player to reach the 1st division.  So what.   

 

I fail to see how someone that actively participates in the tournaments run by the TC benefits from these changes.  One tournament is expecting fewer top players to participate - and another is being set up to accommodate those that do NOT participate but believe themselves to be rightfully in a certain tier (or at least start in that tier). 

 

Let me summarise your criticisms of the Pyramid system as far as I understand:

 

1. You state that Pyramid positions are not based not on what your army actually does in the three tournaments - but rather on some other standard

 

It is a consequence of starting from scratch that we have to determine starting positions. The fairest way to allocate these positions is to use past tournament performance (and not to reward participation at the expense of players who are not as available). You may be suggesting otherwise, but aside from you, the main criticism that we received from other tournament participants is that the TRP system was rewarding availability, and that players wanted a more accurate Division system. To phrase it differently - using past performance for starting positions is purely about what your army has actually done.

 

Now to address how Pyramid factors in what your army does on a short-term scale (i.e. one season). There are two opportunities to progress to a higher Pyramid Division. One way is to get promoted. The other way is to perform well enough in a tournament such as a Champions League or a Double-Elimination to qualify automatically.

 

So I completely reject your statement that positions are based on some other standard.

 

2. You state that Pyramid is about ensuring a few players are assured of their rightful spot regardless of participation and performance

 

This is not what the Pyramid is about. The Pyramid system is about creating a Divisions tournament with the excitement of promotion and relegation - where every division is competitive and every player (regardless of their availability, or how new they are to the game) is able to compete. But if a player is good enough to avoid relegation from their Division (and there will be a fair number of relegation spots in each Division - so this will be an achievement) then why shouldn't they stay if they have successfully defended their spot? Would you rather they are replaced with a player who happened to have less going on in their calendar?

 

3. You question how tournament participants benefit from these changes

 

Excitement of promotion and relegation is restored

Less available players can participate at the level of their ability (and additionally players who couldn't play eg 9 games in 9 weeks can now get involved because they only need to play eg 11 games in 17 weeks)

Ranking of players is less volatile and based more on ability (consider before that a player's Division may have been entirely based on performance in one tournament)

New players will find their level even more quickly (and not have to wait x years) due to the fact that the structure is a Pyramid (with increasing numbers of participants at each level)

Divisions will be even more competitive (i.e players of equal standard) 

 

4. You want a Single-Elimination tournament where everyone participates

 

Can you expand on the benefits of a Single-Elimination tournament where everyone participates (when compared to the other tournament types)? It is shorter so you are likely to play less games, and it is more likely to have a surprise winner (because one defeat knocks you out) - but I assume these aren't the attractions that make you favour this format.

 

--------------------

 

The one point I will take on board is that under the new system - if you don't consider yourself to have a reasonable chance of getting promoted (or finishing well enough in a tournament to qualify direct for a higher division) then you might come to the opinion that there is less to play for in terms of the whole season. You might well say ' I could finish 25th in all the tournaments or I could finish 35th in all the tournaments - either way I would still be in Base (whereas before it affected my Masters Division)'.

 

The strengths of the Pyramid system in my opinion outweigh this relative disadvantage, but that is not to say it isn't something that TC should think about addressing. We will discuss this. If there is a suggestion you can offer (one that doesn't require scrapping the Pyramid system) in this regard i.e. something seasonal for the lower-ranked players to aim for outside of the Pyramid - we will listen.



#11 scottrussia

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Posted 26 March 2017 - 01:17 AM

Actually, I summarized my points - they didn't need to be slightly changed in another summary.

 

I fully understand that the changes will occur no matter what opinion is expressed so there is no need to continue the discussion and I can either participate or not.

 

I do appreciate the time that the TC spends running the tournaments and that no matter what is done there will be folks with different opinions as to what would be best.


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#12 scottrussia

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 04:40 PM

I can't reply to the tournament schedule thread so I'm posting here.

 

Why is the single elimination tournament being cancelled? 

 

Why not make the pyramid league into a 9 matches in 9 week tournament and start the single elimination tournament in June or July?

 

Or why not simply move the pyramid league into next year since we just had the master's division as the last tournament?

 

Its time for an elimination tournament after the Champion's League!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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#13 TheOptician

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Posted 06 May 2017 - 08:43 PM

I can't reply to the tournament schedule thread so I'm posting here.

 

Why is the single elimination tournament being cancelled? 

 

Why not make the pyramid league into a 9 matches in 9 week tournament and start the single elimination tournament in June or July?

 

Pyramid League being 11 games in 17 weeks allows some players to play who would be unable to commit to a weekly match.

 

Or why not simply move the pyramid league into next year since we just had the master's division as the last tournament?

 

Its time for an elimination tournament after the Champion's League!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

TC has had an extremely busy schedule for a while now. Co-ordinating the Spring Tournament simultaneously with the remainder of the Champions League we felt was too much to organise particularly with only 2 current members). Fortunately for those who are disappointed that the Spring Tournament is not occurring as scheduled, queenbee1 has come to the rescue with the Spring Fling (http://forum.strateg...spring-fling-©/)

 

Pyramid League being 11 games in 17 weeks allows some players to play who would be unable to commit to a weekly match.






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