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#61 QueenofHearts

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Posted 15 February 2016 - 08:51 PM

So do you believe the United States is headed for a collapse if we stay the course?

And when society is entitled, lazy, and corrupt it leads to collapse.  Look at the roman empire.  The entire city of Rome did not even work at the collapse.

Can you define who you believe is 

Lazy=

Entitled=

Corrupt=

 

Maybe give us your thoughts on what we can do to empower these people? 

 

At the end of the movie "The Big Short" the real life character Mark Baum was asked the following by a coworker after the collapse of the Mortgage Back Securities scandal that nearly destroyed the US banking system in 2008. 

 

Co Worker: "This is it right? We got them!" They'll all go to jail and they'll break up the banks? Mark Baum just shook his head in dismay. "I have a feeling, in a few years people are going to be doing what they always do when the economy tanks. They will be blaming immigrants and poor people."
 
Another quote I loved was 
 
Mark Baum: We live in an era of fraud in America. Not just in banking, but in government, education, religion, food, even baseball... What bothers me isn't that fraud is not nice. Or that fraud is mean. For fifteen thousand years, fraud and short sighted thinking have never, ever worked. Not once. Eventually you get caught, things go south. When the hell did we forget all that? I thought we were better than this, I really did. Madoff got away with it for decades, but in the end he was caught his family ruined. 

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#62 Fairway

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Posted 15 February 2016 - 09:58 PM

Can we lock this topic? I do not like debates


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#63 QueenofHearts

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Posted 15 February 2016 - 11:14 PM

Yes Fairway we can lock it, but not because you don't like debates. This thread has run its course. I find it depressing that in an open forum we can never seem to have a discussion of the issues. There was no discussion of the impact of money printing and the use of exotic debt instruments or the manipulation of interest rates by The Fed. Central banks are doing this all over the world. We never got into the wealth gap and how to resolve it or how we can control interest rates.

 

Can we ever separate the right to choose, gay marriage and the ACA from the conversation? The biggest entitlement in the land is called Social Security. It was passed a long time ago when people had a life expectancy of 65. We have people retiring at age 62 and collecting well into their 80-90s. That is socialism. No one wants single payer health care, but that is what Medicare is if you are over 65 and until death. Hospital ERs have become the health care option for the poor as by law they cannot be turned away. All these issues have been voted on and upheld by the highest court in the land. 

 

We seem to always find a way to invariably devolve into the same tribal war separating into Us vs Them. Maybe one day we will stop defining everyone as liberal and conservative. We all fit somewhere in the middle. I was encouraging Europeans to become involved, but only Lonello was courageous enough to step up and Napoleon did a good job of defining the liquidity gap, but this concept seems too complex. So if socialism is so bad why did Lonello say he wouldn't trade his country for ours? I wonder do all Europeans see America in the way he does? Is that our reality? McMansions in the suburbs and ghettos in the urbans areas? Gaius is angry. He sounds like a police officer to me. Always dealing with people at their worst.

 

I sit in my home with the doors open so it always feels like I am outdoors. I carry cash so if I see a person in the street I can hand them a fiver or a ten. I look at people who roll up their windows and shoo away the homeless. Manhattanites are best at this it would appear. 

 

‚ÄčI have requested the MT to lock this topic.


Edited by QueenofHearts, 16 February 2016 - 05:30 AM.

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#64 Gaius Marius

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Posted 16 February 2016 - 07:12 PM

So what your saying is that anytime a topic does not go your way, you want to lock it.  Just because someone does not like a debate does not mean that we have to make that one person happy and lock it.  Thats what is wrong with this country, if you are in the majority and share an opinion with the masses then you can talk, if you are in the minority, they you are suppressed.  Sad.....


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#65 Gaius Marius

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Posted 16 February 2016 - 07:35 PM

 

So do you believe the United States is headed for a collapse if we stay the course?

Can you define who you believe is 

Lazy=

Entitled=

Corrupt=

 

Maybe give us your thoughts on what we can do to empower these people? 

 

At the end of the movie "The Big Short" the real life character Mark Baum was asked the following by a coworker after the collapse of the Mortgage Back Securities scandal that nearly destroyed the US banking system in 2008. 

 

Co Worker: "This is it right? We got them!" They'll all go to jail and they'll break up the banks? Mark Baum just shook his head in dismay. "I have a feeling, in a few years people are going to be doing what they always do when the economy tanks. They will be blaming immigrants and poor people."
 
Another quote I loved was 
 
Mark Baum: We live in an era of fraud in America. Not just in banking, but in government, education, religion, food, even baseball... What bothers me isn't that fraud is not nice. Or that fraud is mean. For fifteen thousand years, fraud and short sighted thinking have never, ever worked. Not once. Eventually you get caught, things go south. When the hell did we forget all that? I thought we were better than this, I really did. Madoff got away with it for decades, but in the end he was caught his family ruined. 

 

We have always lived in a country of corruption.  The sad thing is the parties are trying to say its the other persons fault when in reality its politics in general.  One thing I will say is that Europe does have a better system in the fact that its not winner take all.  If the Republicans get 60 percent of the vote then they should get 60% of the say.  I much more like coalition governments than the over-competitive cutthroat winner-take-all system we have here.  That is my shout out to Europe.  But to say that America is in an era of fraud is ludicrous.  America has been in an era of fraud since its inception.  From the moment we landed on the shores we have killed and destroyed the native population.  When we were done with that we attacked Great Britain because we did not like the taxes levied on us due to the war they had to fight with the French and the Indians.  Then the farmers revolted and we killed them too.  All the while people were suckered into indentured servitude.  After this was not working we got slaves.  Then after that we raped the poor with sharecropping.  When the industrial revolution was in its hey day, we worked the working man like a slave until he just died from exhaustion in the factories.  The democrats, with their political machine like Tammany hall promised chickens for votes, I like to think of it as the liberals giving people welfare for votes now, the whole idea of keeping the masses to cowardly to ask for more but content enough to not revolt.  After Calumet where someone yelled fire and trampled a bunch of union people, the unions finally started getting some steam and became very powerful.  Upton Sinclair wanted socialism, he ended up getting the FDA.  Now America had a liquidity crisis in the great depression when banks were backed by land and other less than liquid assets.  It was only when Japan attacked us because we would not sell them oil, that America was able to put the nation to work for the war effort.  We finally were not in Europe's shadow and had a secure market for our goods without competition due to everyone else being wiped out.  We didn't really become a true Christian country around the late 1940's to early 1960's.  Then America went back to being the way it was.  Now to answer who is entitled, lazy and corrupt.  Well yes I am in law enforcement, and I see all of society being corrupt.  Officers are just criminals with badges, and criminals are unapologetic narcissists.  I actually met a criminal that tried to convince me that society missed the boat and actually hoeing and pimping and killing is what nature intended.   Actually now I agree with him.  If we allowed anarchy, society would just reset and eventually find itself right back where we are now.  We create rules to prevent what nature would allow.  Now after me giving a VERY abbreviated history lesson, I think you can look at a poor person now that has welfare, subsidized housing, a tv, cable, running water, electricity, tinder (so they can get laid), a pickup truck (or old cadillac if your a urbanite), and beer and say they are doing ok.  But still they say you need 15$ an hour to do a job that I did got 7 bucks an hour for putting myself through school.  The poor have all this and complain when people back in the day just worked all day and then died.  Id say you need a little more thankfulness that you dont just die like in the past.  I started out at 16$ an hour to work as a law enforcement officer.  I was an athlete in college and ranked in the top 25 in the nation.  I have a degree where I had a 3.5 gpa while being an athlete.  Went through all this training for my job.  And then your telling me that some guy that did drugs, chased tail, lived for himself without even trying to go to community college deserves to be paid within 1 dollar of me when any day could be my last.  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.  We kinda laugh when Bernie Sanders is on tv.  Its like, "Ok Bernie, we heard you, now let the adults speak, go back to the kids and tell them of your fantasies."    


Edited by Gaius Marius, 18 February 2016 - 09:27 AM.

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#66 QueenofHearts

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Posted 16 February 2016 - 08:19 PM

So what your saying is that anytime a topic does not go your way, you want to lock it.  Just because someone does not like a debate does not mean that we have to make that one person happy and lock it.  Thats what is wrong with this country, if you are in the majority and share an opinion with the masses then you can talk, if you are in the minority, they you are suppressed.  Sad.....

Gaius, I just thought everyone has had their say. Why are you so angry? I thought you made a great statement above from your point of view. I will ask the MT to keep this thread open, but you don't know me so please do not infer that you understand my motives. I thought my reason was clear. Did you even read it? I want to talk about the banking industry and financial manipulation.

I didn't want to get into minimum wages as that simply is not going to happen.

 

I wanted to see if anyone knew anything about the synthetic debt instruments (CDOs, Credit Default Swaps, Derivatives etc) and the Federal Reserve who manipulates the interest rates. I love it when people get mad and say no more bank bailouts on the back of the honest hard working people like you that can wipe out your life's savings. You seem to think that by my closing the topic I am avoiding confrontation? Nothing could be further from the truth.

 

Thank you for doing a thankless job and keeping others safe. Even when some of them don't deserve it, you risk your life to help protect them. Then the justice system just kicks them back into the street and next time they may take a shot at you.

 

They call Orlando "The City Beautiful" but take a seat in the ER at the downtown hospital on a Friday night and you will see nothing beautiful at all. While hard working American put in their 40-60 hour work week the banksters are coming up with all sorts of ways to separate you from your wallet, home and retirement accounts. Just look at the YTD activity on your 401k. Most have lost nearly 10% or more if their mutual funds had anything to do with the oil industry.

 

Leveraged buyouts make money for the executives and the banks. The people get a pink slip and a letter saying "Thanks for your hard work. Good luck in your future endeavors." You find a new job and three to five years later you go through the same thing. This has been going on for 20 years. Imagine what if felt like working for Enron or Lehman Brothers?

 

I have requested this thread not be locked. Still waiting for more Europeans to chime in.


Edited by QueenofHearts, 16 February 2016 - 08:24 PM.

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#67 Lonello

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Posted 16 February 2016 - 09:02 PM

waiting for more Europeans to chime in

 

If they do once asked, you don't react on it. A bit weird a reaction. Why would the next start to chime in here then?

 

Anyway, I agree we can't be locking topics just because a topic doesn't go the intended way. If there's still spirit to say something, then why not? This is the off-topic section. Let's chat.


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#68 QueenofHearts

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Posted 16 February 2016 - 10:07 PM

If they do once asked, you don't react on it. A bit weird a reaction. Why would the next start to chime in here then?

 

Anyway, I agree we can't be locking topics just because a topic doesn't go the intended way. If there's still spirit to say something, then why not? This is the off-topic section. Let's chat.

I don't understand your first question. Are you saying because Fairway asked I should not react? I didn't react to his comment at all. I just felt like this thread has run its course. Nothing new here to see, let's move along. 

 

I didn't ask to lock it because it wasn't going my way. That was inferred by Gaius. All I thought was that the thread had reached its end game of separating us into liberal vs conservatives. Us vs Them. It is an open topic. I can talk about the beautiful weather we are having in Orlando. I would be glad to continue this if anyone else has something to say.

 

Do you? Has anyone seen The Big Short? Do you even care that the Fed is printing money out of thin so that grandma gets a welfare (err SS) check? So that the MIC gets paid. The deficit is not the problem. The problem is they cut tax revenues and are forcing the banks to loan money to stimulate the economy. Do you think money grows on a tree? The only way someone can become a multibillionaire like the Kochs, Buffet, Gates etc is because millions have nothing. Wages are flat and have been for decades. Unions no longer have clout.

 

They are taxing you (even in Europe) by issuing debt. That is what printed money is. Look at every bill in your wallet. We are passing around "federal reserve notes" pretending that they represent wealth. The Melinda and Bill Gates foundation doesn't give the money away. They try to control social programs like schools and education and you fine citizens have nothing to say about it.

 

That's right your school is a socialist program. Your local police, fire department, hospital and all government offices, the people who pick up your trash and fix the roads are socialism in action. So when you stand on your high horse and laud the greatness of Capitalism then know what you are talking about. Jails are socialism even when they become privatized. I'm not asked to donate taxes for schools. I own a home so I am taxed and if I do not pay they sell my taxes at auction. If you are already going to be taxed to death you may as well get medical treatment and a college education. None of that is free regardless of whether you pay your employer or the government. Your employer does not owe you health insurance when you work. Obamacare is just the first step towards full socialized medicine and it's coming whether you want it or not.

 

In the end all the money belongs to the Fed. All of it. Americans are broke (at least most of them) and so is the government on the local, state and federal levels. If the Chinese, that everyone seems to hate so much were to stop buying our debt, we are screwed. They won't stop because they are using our debt as leverage to build castles in the sky in China. They need us to keep consuming crap we don't want and don't need. It's all one giant Ponzi Scheme and we are all the victims. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. It is the way it has always been back to dictators, Kings and Pharaohs. Back to the first caveman who picked up a stick and said to the others "pay me or I will take it."


Edited by QueenofHearts, 16 February 2016 - 10:32 PM.

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#69 QueenofHearts

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Posted 16 February 2016 - 10:48 PM

An open question to Gaius. What do you think is accomplished by the War of Drugs? Every night you do your shift and these kids will shoot you. Is it any wonder police are on edge? Drugs are a very lucrative black market economy. It exists because people want to get high and "players" want their money. No one can stop them. There are more drugs in this country than at any time in the past. Smugglers laugh at law enforcement and people who live on the border are taking matters into their own hands. It is the wild west on the borders of Mexico.

 

When you can make a million on one load of crank the reward outweighs the risks. The popo or 50 are just in their way. They have a saying "there will always be police, just like their will always be gangsters. The rule is we all die in the end." They sing songs about how they will bust a cap in anyone who thinks they can stop them. They are better armed and they have the streets to protect them. In the ghettos the police are the enemy. Tell me you are not offended by that? Here's one I made up on the fly. The one in bold was written by Ice-T. No wonder you feel the way you do.

 

"We fill up the clubs

partying up all night

Got my 9mil loaded 

don't ya tell me what's right." Queenbee

 

I got my black shirt on
I got my black gloves on
I got my ski mask on
This sh**'s been too long

I got my twelve gauge sawed off
I got my headlights turned off
I'm 'bout to bust some shots off
I'm 'bout to dust some cops off

Cop killer, better you than me
Cop killer, f*** police brutality
Cop killer, I know your family's grievin'
(f*** 'em)
Cop killer, but tonight we get even


Edited by QueenofHearts, 16 February 2016 - 10:50 PM.

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#70 Napoleon 1er

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Posted 16 February 2016 - 11:18 PM

I don't have much time to answer now about Europeans views but will come back either tomorrow or the day after. In the mean time just something funny to meditate about socialism:

http://imgur.com/xTYSPd2


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#71 Fairway

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Posted 16 February 2016 - 11:58 PM

I don't have much time to answer now about Europeans views but will come back either tomorrow or the day after. In the mean time just something funny to meditate about socialism:

http://imgur.com/xTYSPd2

That is exactly the problem with it. Good pic with a good point.


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#72 QueenofHearts

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Posted 17 February 2016 - 01:10 AM

In regards to the Margaret Thatcher poster that Napoleon shared we are already long past that. That was so 30 years ago and just like Climate Change we will reach a point of no return. You can deny climate change all you want, but that doesn't make it so. There is virtually no one that is independent of the government.

 

If The Federal Reserve raised rates to 3% IMO the stock market would tank immediately. Savers are the ones being punished. The Swiss are already at negative interest, Denmark and Japan have all gone negative, but I can't keep up.

The consequences of negative interest rates

What negative rates mean for average investors

 

I believe the US prime is .5% so savers are forced into the stock market. It all started around the time Glass-Steagall was repealed. Once Clinton opened Pandora's box we quickly have the dot com crash. Then 9/11 and then 2008. Americans have a short memory and we are on the brink again.

 

Paulson and Geithner did what they thought was right, but I think it was because the FDIC could not cover the losses. Did you know they were so certain that banks were stable that they stopped collecting the fees from banks? Many really rich people would have lost nearly everything. A 250k limit on FDIC insurance is nothing when you have 500 million in the same bank. It was unacceptable to our ruling class. I mean the real owners and not the politicians. So the taxpayers who by majority were against a bank bailout lost again. They will lose the next time we are caught in a major liquidity trap. If the wealthy don't pay who will? Anyone want to get a 50% cut in social security? How about a 50% cut in salaries for fire, police and school teachers and no pensions? Want to eliminate Medicaid? Where will you put all the old people who are in nursing homes? You tell me, because I don't know what to do.

 

All I started this thread was to see if you understood the problem. Fairway you are young and simple slogans like that poster appeal to you. Some of the American electorate may be older in age, but they also respond to simple messages like that of Donald Trump. "Make America Great Again." Ask his voters how he will do that. How he will strong arm Mexico into building a wall? How will he save Social Security? He can't answer the questions. All I have is questions. 


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#73 QueenofHearts

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Posted 17 February 2016 - 01:17 AM

Despite the Federal Reserve raising its overnight rate in December, an increasing number of people are now calling for the Fed Fund rate to go negative. The chatter around negative rates has become so loud that Janet Yellen addressed the issue on Wednesday saying that while there may be legal issues with lowering rates below zero, the central bank can likely do it if it wanted to. 

 

They can do whatever they want. Do you remember when the Swiss unpegged the franc from the Euro? Some lost their shirts overnight. Currency traders were caught with no way out. China revalued the Yuan and their market (the Hang Seng) is down from its high of 30k to about 19k last I looked.

 

What does it say in the textbooks about that?


Edited by QueenofHearts, 17 February 2016 - 01:20 AM.

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#74 Gaius Marius

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Posted 17 February 2016 - 06:17 AM

An open question to Gaius. What do you think is accomplished by the War of Drugs? Every night you do your shift and these kids will shoot you. Is it any wonder police are on edge? Drugs are a very lucrative black market economy. It exists because people want to get high and "players" want their money. No one can stop them. There are more drugs in this country than at any time in the past. Smugglers laugh at law enforcement and people who live on the border are taking matters into their own hands. It is the wild west on the borders of Mexico.

 

When you can make a million on one load of crank the reward outweighs the risks. The popo or 50 are just in their way. They have a saying "there will always be police, just like their will always be gangsters. The rule is we all die in the end." They sing songs about how they will bust a cap in anyone who thinks they can stop them. They are better armed and they have the streets to protect them. In the ghettos the police are the enemy. Tell me you are not offended by that? Here's one I made up on the fly. The one in bold was written by Ice-T. No wonder you feel the way you do.

 

"We fill up the clubs

partying up all night

Got my 9mil loaded 

don't ya tell me what's right." Queenbee

 

I got my black shirt on
I got my black gloves on
I got my ski mask on
This sh**'s been too long

I got my twelve gauge sawed off
I got my headlights turned off
I'm 'bout to bust some shots off
I'm 'bout to dust some cops off

Cop killer, better you than me
Cop killer, f*** police brutality
Cop killer, I know your family's grievin'
(f*** 'em)
Cop killer, but tonight we get even

Well I use to be a cop on the street but now I work in a prison.  (Higher paying job actually lol)  But I think I have a unique perspective on the drug war.  My father is a 29 year law enforcement veteran.  I have been raised by law enforcement.  I have a B.A. in history.  One of my main professors was a very liberal black studies professor from Columbia.  I being a white boy from the country, you would think would not see eye-to-eye with him.  Wrong, he actually shaped a lot of how I look at the world.  After getting this education I worked as a cop on the street, so I saw how people were arrested and captured.  Now working in the prison, I read files everyday and talk to the real thugs that society is after.  I can say this.  The drug war started because criminals like pablo escobar saw an untapped market in a land with more disposable income than any other land, as well as a group of people that needed desperately a way to survive.  These people were the minorities in America.  The market was created due to a fracture in society, and many people needing an outlet to protest and rebel against the status quo.  I apologize for the long winded answer as this will take awhile to read, but I have to set up the scene for my response.  According to my professor and the books I read, in America during the civil war, there were two types of people in the north, anti-slavery, and abolitionists.  Anti-slavery people believed that slavery was a poor economic model and America would not progress unless it was halted, they were however racist.  Abolitionists were not concerned with economic progress, they simply thought slavery was an immoral practice.  Now fast forward, the war is won and blacks were promised 40 acres and a mule; didn't happen.  They were barred from fighting in every war America faced because they knew that then they would owe the blacks more.  Finally WWII happened and we had no choice but to let them fight.  America was now number 1 and technology allowed a formally uneducated, unorganized people a way to unite and create a movement.  With the civil rights movement at its peak in the 50's and 60's, blacks began to gain rights and look for a better place to live.  Blacks assumed northerners were abolitionists, unfortunately there were more anti-slavery people than they thought.  Due to ignorant whites being afraid of these black people moving to the north, they began to leave their neighborhoods for the suburbs.  This is called white flight.  Because of the whites taking their jobs and investment with them, the blacks now found themselves in a new territory and without the means to support themselves. This is right when drugs began to be popular in the mid 60's.  This was a way to support their family and stick it to a society that had abandoned them.  The gangs in the 50's fought with fists, the more lucrative gangs in the 60's started killing people with guns.  This was to keep their turf in the drug trade.  Now because of this, society was shocked.  Fearing a total loss of control, Reagan and other law makers introduced "tough sentencing laws" in an effort to curtail violence.  Like you said if I can make 1 mil on a kilo of coke, then that is a better life than no life at all.  In the prison a guy from the 80's got life from assault with great bodily harm less than murder.  The same crime got a guy 3-15 back in 2011.  So now that we know the history of drugs in America and why they are destroying the black community, we ask ourselves, is it worth it.  I say no.  Marijuana is the gateway drug.  It is because its widely accepted and easy to get.  Most people will try this drug.  Now you buy this from a drug dealer, that is connected to a criminal enterprise.  If you want to try harder stuff or get a unregistered firearm to commit a crime to get money for more drugs, your weed dealer is a good person to start with.  What we need to do is make Marijuana legal so we can get people to buy it at walmart rather then the hood.  You don't need to ban guns to stop murders, you need to make people lack the desire to kill.  People don't kill for no reason in the streets, its usually business related, and that game is drugs.  Most people, if they bought weed at the store, would not risk going to the hood to buy coke if they could avoid it.  People only go because they have before and they are comfortable due to exposure.  The problem is we create drug dealers and hoeing and pimping as a glamorous life style via rap music.  I think the drug war costs too much money, is pointless and a waste of my time.  I grew up in a Christian conservative house and my father and my whole family hate drugs and all but still think they should be legal because we see the waste of time that is the drug war.  If we made the low key drugs legal, and focused on the big ones, we would be more able to contain it.  White people in the upper-class neighborhoods do coke and don't get arrested, the black man on the street doing crack does.  This is because the white person is not perceived to be violent, they are not violent because they are a consumer part of the time, and the dealer has to be violent because what they do for a living is illegal.  It will take years and very good policy and a lot of dead cops to fix this problem.  As for cop killers, well we are like batman, we do the dirty work and society is happy when we do something nice for them.  When we have to do stuff that society cant stomach, then they cast us out and throw us to the wolves.  But never being appreciated hardens your heart and your resolve to do the right thing no matter the consequences pushes you through.  Ive had death threats on me in prison because I went after a guy extorting people and ticketed him.  You can kill me all you want, my brothers and sisters will just continue the fight in my absence.    


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#75 QueenofHearts

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Posted 17 February 2016 - 06:41 AM

I knew we had something in common. Thanks for taking the time to share and when I send you a friend request I hope you accept and we can play a game to forget about the mess we have in this country. I am college educated, but I have done a lot of reading. Now that I am retired I have even more time. Thank you and your family for serving and protecting. Americans are not a bad lot. We just don't take the time to comprehend the historical forces that create today's reality and we have a hard time with change.

 

I have a quote I use about the US. "We are not the greatest country in the world, but we could be." We need to not only clean up the streets by taking away the profit motive, but also have some justice for white collar crime as well. The banksters cannot just pay a fine and walk away scott free to resume business as usual. We can't just let the likes of Goldman Sachs pay a fine of 5 billion dollars and no one pays for their crime. As they say "The fish rots from the head down."


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#76 QueenofHearts

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Posted 17 February 2016 - 08:19 AM

Borrowed time

Queenbee


#77 Napoleon 1er

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Posted 17 February 2016 - 11:39 PM

 

 I wonder do all Europeans see America in the way he does? Is that our reality? McMansions in the suburbs and ghettos in the urbans areas? 

.

Hi Queen,

 

will try to give some vision that European may have from Americans with some for and some against.

first of all looking back in history the only real (and this is even debated) native americans are the indians with several different civilizations like incas, azteques, mayas, iroquois, mohicans, cheyennes, sioux, etc ....but later on, after "discovery of America" by Cristobal Colon from Spain there were many Europeans moving there for various reasons. Some because they were seamen and they liked what they've discovered, some because the life in Europe was very hard, farmers had to work 18 hours a day in the fields that didn't even belong to them and had only right to get a little portion of their own production for feeding their family and they wanted to become "owner of where they work", some because they started to have deviating ideologies from the very conservative and catholic-dominated aristocracy and were "banned" as heretics, some because they liked travelling and understood very early that taking some unknown goods or food somewhere and bringing it  to Europe will transform such "rare and unbelieveable" goods or food into gold (see for example what happened with tea, potato, rice and so on), some also because they were banned as criminals for some bad actions they did ... but all these different categories of people had something in common that was not common for the average European conservative culture-based citizen. These people had different ideas, they were curious, they liked adventure, they wanted to be self dependent, to own a portion of territory, they had entrepreneur spirit, if they would fail they would start up again and finally they had the sense of business. These values have been maintained and developped over time and are now still typical of american culture. This is why in America everything is much more money/business driven than in Europe, why there are so many various religious communities (see amish, mormons, baptists, adventists, Jehovah's witnesses and much more ...) and why nobody will look mad at you if you fail when you try something (as somebody said: success is the ability to stand up one more time than you've fallen) - in EUrope if you fail sometimes it is a nightmare to get back due to the negative vision that other people will have from you. .... and last but not least ...  this culture to keep a few loaded weapons in each household is probably an heritage of the criminals ;) ... this is definitely not common in Europe.

But finally, beside this above, people may have some different cultures and food habits (some are deifying the cheesburger, some the well cooked dishes) but at the end the human being is the same everywhere they love, they fear, they are happy, they are thirsty, they are tired, they are intelligent or they are stupid .... so no real big differences between Europeans and Americans.


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If you don't know where you go ... you have a lot of chance to arrive elsewhere ...

#78 Moriarty

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Posted 18 February 2016 - 06:38 AM

We have always lived in a country of corruption.  The sad thing is the parties are trying to say its the other persons fault when in reality its politics in general.  One thing I will say is that Europe does have a better system in the fact that its not winner take all.  If the Republicans get 60 percent of the vote then they should get 60% of the say.  I much more like coalition governments than the over-competitive cutthroat winner-take-all system we have here.  That is my shout out to Europe.  But to say that America is in an era of fraud is ludicrous.  America has been in an era of fraud since its inception.  From the moment we landed on the shores we have killed and destroyed the native population.  When we were done with that we attacked Great Britain because we did not like the taxesarrow-10x10.png levied on us due to the war they had to fight with the French and the Indians.  Then the farmers revolted and we killed them too.  All the while people were suckered into indentured servitude.  After this was not working we got slaves.  Then after that we raped the poor with sharecropping.  When the industrial revolution was in its hey day, we worked the working man like a slave until he just died from exhaustion in the factories.  The democrats, with their political machine like Tammany hall promised chickens for votes, I like to think of it as the liberals giving people welfare for votes now, the whole idea of keeping the masses to cowardly to ask for more but content enough to not revolt.  After Calumet where someone yelled fire and trampled a bunch of union people, the unions finally started getting some steam and became very powerful.  Upton Sinclair wanted socialism, he ended up getting the FDA.  Now America had a liquidity crisis in the great depression when banks were backed by land and other less than liquid assets.  It was only when Japan attacked us because we would not sell them oil, that America was able to put the nation to work for the war effort.  We finally were not in Europe's shadow and had a secure market for our goods without competition due to everyone else being wiped out.  We didn't really become a true Christian country around the late 1940's to early 1960's.  Then America went back to being the way it was.  Now to answer who is entitled, lazy and corrupt.  Well yes I am in law enforcement, and I see all of society being corrupt.  Officers are just criminals with badges, and criminals are unapologetic narcissists.  I actually met a criminal that tried to convince me that society missed the boat and actually hoeing and pimping and killing is what nature intended.   Actually now I agree with him.  If we allowed anarchy, society would just reset and eventually find itself right back where we are now.  We create rules to prevent what nature would allow.  Now after me giving a VERY abbreviated history lesson, I think you can look at a poor person now that has welfare, subsidized housing, a tv, cable, running water, electricity, tinder (so they can get laid), a pickup truck (or old cadillac if your a urbanite), and beer and say they are doing ok.  But still they say you need 15$ an hour to do a job that I did got 7 bucks an hour for putting myself through school.  The poor have all this and complain when people back in the day just worked all day and then died.  Id say you need a little more thankfulness that you dont like in the past.  I started out at 16$ an hour to work as a law enforcement officer.  I was an athlete in college and ranked in the top 25 in the nation.  I have a degree where I had a 3.5 gpa while being an athlete.  Went through all this training for my job.  And then your telling me that some guy that did drugs, chased tail, lived for himself without even trying to go to community college deserves to be paid within 1 dollar of me when any day could be my last.  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.  We kinda laugh when Bernie Sanders is on tv.  Its like, "Ok Bernie, we heard you, now let the adults speak, go back to the kids and tell them of your fantasies."    

I like the history lesson. What you wrote on government and politics is accurate IMHO


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#79 Moriarty

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Posted 18 February 2016 - 06:40 AM

I don't understand your first question. Are you saying because Fairway asked I should not react? I didn't react to his comment at all. I just felt like this thread has run its course. Nothing new here to see, let's move along. 

 

I didn't ask to lock it because it wasn't going my way. That was inferred by Gaius. All I thought was that the thread had reached its end game of separating us into liberal vs conservatives. Us vs Them. It is an open topic. I can talk about the beautiful weather we are having in Orlando. I would be glad to continuearrow-10x10.png this if anyone else has something to say.

 

Do you? Has anyone seen The Big Short? Do you even care that the Fed is printing money out of thin so that grandma gets a welfare (err SS) check? So that the MIC gets paid. The deficit is not the problem. The problem is they cut tax revenues and are forcing the banks to loan moneyarrow-10x10.png to stimulate the economy. Do you think money grows on a tree? The only way someone can become a multibillionaire like the Kochs, Buffet, Gates etc is because millions have nothing. Wages are flat and have been for decades. Unions no longer have clout.

 

They are taxingarrow-10x10.png you (even in Europe) by issuing debtarrow-10x10.png. That is what printed money is. Look at every bill in your wallet. We are passing around "federal reserve notes" pretending that they represent wealth. The Melinda and Bill Gates foundation doesn't give the money away. They try to control social programs like schools and education and you fine citizens have nothing to say about it.

 

That's right your school is a socialist program. Your local police, fire department, hospital and all government offices, the people who pick up your trash and fix the roads are socialism in action. So when you stand on your high horse and laud the greatness of Capitalism then know what you are talking about. Jails are socialism even when they become privatized. I'm not asked to donate taxes for schools. I own a home so I am taxedarrow-10x10.png and if I do not pay they sell my taxes at auction. If you are already going to be taxed to death you may as well get medical treatment and a college education. None of that is free regardless of whether you pay your employer or the government. Your employer does not owe you health insurance when you work. Obamacare is just the first step towards full socialized medicine and it's coming whether you want it or not.

 

In the end all the money belongs to the Fed. All of it. Americans are broke (at least most of them) and so is the government on the local, state and federal levels. If the Chinese, that everyone seems to hate so much were to stop buying our debt, we are screwed. They won't stop because they are using our debt as leverage to build castles in the sky in China. They need us to keep consuming crap we don't want and don't need. It's all one giant Ponzi Scheme and we are all the victims. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. It is the way it has always been back to dictators, Kings and Pharaohs. Back to the first caveman who picked up a stick and said to the others "pay me or I will take it."

Queen of Hearts, you seem to be very learned in politics and history, but in all respect, you sort of ramble on. Perhaps you can put your separate ideas into a flowing sentence. Cause and effect. It seems hard to understand to me, which is why I dropped out of the minimum wage argument


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#80 QueenofHearts

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Posted 18 February 2016 - 11:02 PM

Queen of Hearts, you seem to be very learned in politics and history, but in all respect, you sort of ramble on. Perhaps you can put your separate ideas into a flowing sentence. Cause and effect. It seems hard to understand to me, which is why I dropped out of the minimum wage argument   

 

Someone else brought up minimum wage. I don't like talking about it because is it is non starter. Bernie is talking pie in the sky to get kids to vote who are working for minimum wage.

 

The Economy is a complex issue. I find myself constantly repeating. 

 

The government does not take in enough revenue to pay off all its promised entitlements.

 

The Congress will not tax the rich so they are forced to borrow money from the Fed.

 

If you've read "The Creature From Jekyll Island" then you know who and what the Fed is. If you don't know what the Fed is and how it manipulates our economy then you don't know.

 

Most Americans have no idea how our economy works. They just don't want to pay taxes. Yet they want the roads fixed, better schools, police, firemen, jails, but all this comes at a cost they don't want to pay. 

 

Taxes have to come from somewhere. The only class left with any money is the wealthy and they already control the political class. So that is unlikely to happen.

 

Social Security cannot be changed without a political party abdicating its power.

 

So we continue to print money instead of paying higher taxes. Thereby making what you have worth(less). Being a millionaire used to mean something. Now you have billionaires.

 

If you want to make money in this country you need an idea, start your own business and hard work. You cannot get rich working for someone else. 

 

I would like to know from those of you going to school and majoring in economics what is you goal?

 

My concern is borrowing. When the Fed set prime at 0% I worry that banks will loan to anyone, sell garbage to pension funds looking for yield and thereby causing another 2008 meltdown.


Edited by QueenofHearts, 19 February 2016 - 01:41 AM.

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