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Recent OVERLORD ban


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#21 Jesus_saves

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Posted 24 May 2019 - 10:08 AM

Yes, Charlie, this is exactly the question. Tournament player can be interpreted in two directions.

1. Having ever played once in your life a tournament (you potentially can be called a tournament player)
2. Being a currently active tournament player

for the sake of the to be judged player I believe most of the community would interpret it in the second way. You deserve a ban, when you are actively playing in a current tournament and having an (intentionally) undeclared account.

I understand from what you wrote that you interpreted it more in the first meaning. Which I can follow and understand.

Nevertheless I’m convinced for most players it is the second meaning being an active player.

I don‘t know the reason why John didn‘t play the this years champions league, but I can well imagine he wanted to avoid the conflict for his test run with Terror1st in light of a potential ban. So for sure he was interpreting the current words also in light of the second meaning. Else what would be the reason not to declare the account? He wouldn‘t lightly take the risk of a ban when this at all would have been on his radar screen....

So again for the sake of the sport let‘s interpret the wording as being active in a tournament (now all know the best way is when they open an account to immediately declare in the alias register for the future (to avoid any later discussion)). This was the first ever case of this kind, and all of us learn for the future out of it.

Thanks for all to reconsider and get on the right track, and you guys can find a way to forgive the many bad words spoken to each other...

Please bear in mind you are adult moderators and thus should show a good example for our young community...

John
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#22 OVERLORD

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Posted 24 May 2019 - 10:21 AM

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#23 OVERLORD

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Posted 24 May 2019 - 11:29 AM

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#24 TemplateRex

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Posted 24 May 2019 - 01:14 PM

1. Having ever played once in your life a tournament (you potentially can be called a tournament player)
2. Being a currently active tournament player

Nevertheless I’m convinced for most players it is the second meaning being an active player.

 

Unregistered aliases are an unfair advantage against unaware opponents in future tournaments as well. This is why there are out-of-competition doping controls in physical sports, and whereabouts registration (like our alias register). In sports, you cannot just stop playing tournaments, train for a year with doping, then just say you are active again and compete in official tournaments. For that to happen, you need to have been checked out-of-competition for a continuous period.

 

I think the alias register serves exactly that purpose. To ensure that everyone knows who he's playing against at all times, without having to ask every time, so that no unfair advantage is created that can be used in future tournaments. So the active/non-active distinction is meaningless in my opinion.

 

Having said that, a one year ban seems excessive. Why not retroactively ban Overlord from the end of last year's WCO for 6 months, until the start of the next WCO. And have a zero-tolerance policy from then on forward?


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#25 Eagle06

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Posted 24 May 2019 - 02:19 PM

Hello

 

I see many discussions here where actually, from my point of view there shouldn't be... We all know that OVERLORD is at the moment the world champion, and so, we all know he is good. I don't see why he should be banned for a new account, I don't consider it a "scouting setup" as he would be good and beat many of us (and he would probably win even if I knew his setup before ^^). I think the alias register has been done for transparency and avoid scouting setups?

 

1) Overlord is not in a tournament yet 

2) As Sorrow has stated, he should have immunity as he is a top player

3) It is really sad to see Spion, and now Overlord banned from tournaments... although it gives opportunity to some other players to win, there is much more less challenge and competition, and Im personally looking to learn from the best and get better than winning and learn nothing. This is my though, and i think many players here thinks like I do...at least I hope so

 

I', asking the TC to reconsider their Ban, maybe with a poll to the community, as I see many players don't consider the world champion to be a cheater...


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#26 roeczak

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Posted 24 May 2019 - 02:50 PM

 

2) As Sorrow has stated, he should have immunity as he is a top player

Hi Sebastien (and Angel)

Regardless of what happens with the case of this ban , I think this is a terrible way of thinking.

Top players should give an example to the rest of the community by following the rules. 

I am sorry, and no hard feelings obviously, but if you think like that I will have to not endorse you ( both of you ) as a mod. 

If TC decides not to ban OVERLORD or to give him a lighter punishment, I can assure you personally it will not be because of that. We take it as a rule ,not to show favoritism/bias towards top players , as everyone in the community should be equal. 


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#27 Nortrom

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Posted 24 May 2019 - 03:09 PM

Without getting into the specifics of the case, I think some on here should really re-calibrate their moral compasses. 

 

Suggesting that a "top player" should be immune to consequences of their action(s) is just plain stupid and displaying a high level of favoritism.

 

When spion... was removed from TC tournament & ongoing WCO, no one really spoke up. When Sir_Balanos13 (you are malaka, alias) was removed for the same reason, no one batted an eye. Now Overlord is on the hot seat, people suddenly speak up. Hypocrisy at its best. You may argue with TC whether the proper procedure was followed and a fair & just ruling was made. Those who believe Overlord, or anyone else, just because of who they are, should be exempted from any consequences, granted that TC made a just & fair ruling, really should re-consider their positions. Some even cheered when Yangus was removed from WCO and banned from TC tournaments due to alias register violation (and other misconducts).

 

Yes, it is no good when players are banned from tournament. Note: when players. Not necessarily high or low level players. I would expect that Overlord read the alias register rules before making this new account and thought what he was doing was perfectly fine and now is surprised that TC feels different about this. 

 

Let TC spell out their verdict, their reasoning and all.. and for those who can not agree with the outcome: tackle their arguments. "He is a top player" is such a weak and lamentable argument.

 

 

 

I am sorry, and no hard feelings obviously, but if you think like that I will have to not endorse you ( both of you ) as a mod. 

Seconded. 


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#28 Eagle06

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Posted 24 May 2019 - 03:26 PM

Hi Sebastien (and Angel)

Regardless of what happens with the case of this ban , I think this is a terrible way of thinking.

Top players should give an example to the rest of the community by following the rules. 

I am sorry, and no hard feelings obviously, but if you think like that I will have to not endorse you ( both of you ) as a mod. 

If TC decides not to ban OVERLORD or to give him a lighter punishment, I can assure you personally it will not be because of that. We take it as a rule ,not to show favoritism/bias towards top players , as everyone in the community should be equal. 

Hi roeczak

 

Actually I think you misunderstand our point, or at least mine: whne I say that Overlord and top players should have an immunity, it is about tournaments, not about other cases. My point is that more competition there is, the best it it. As you said, top players should show the example, either on the behaviour than on the game. If you Don't allow Overlord to play in tournaments for more than 1 year… then how can he show the example on how to play? About the behaviour, well he didn't show any bad example, as he wasn't in a tournament, so he respected the rules.

I can understand you Don't get my point, but I think it is important to keep top players in tournaments, Overlord is one of them, with "immunity" I Simply mean they should be allowed to play the whole tournaments, we perfectly know that the alias "Terror1st" was not created in order to scout people, but in order to make a record.

Is it fair to consider Overlord in the same way that a cheater, who uses multiple accounts to scout setups and get the advantage?


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#29 Sorrow

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Posted 24 May 2019 - 03:27 PM

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Edited by Sorrow, 28 July 2019 - 12:53 AM.


#30 Eagle06

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Posted 24 May 2019 - 03:29 PM

Without getting into the specifics of the case, I think some on here should really re-calibrate their moral compasses. 

 

Suggesting that a "top player" should be immune to consequences of their action(s) is just plain stupid and displaying a high level of favoritism.

 

When spion... was removed from TC tournament & ongoing WCO, no one really spoke up. When Sir_Balanos13 (you are malaka, alias) was removed for the same reason, no one batted an eye. Now Overlord is on the hot seat, people suddenly speak up. Hypocrisy at its best. You may argue with TC whether the proper procedure was followed and a fair & just ruling was made. Those who believe Overlord, or anyone else, just because of who they are, should be exempted from any consequences, granted that TC made a just & fair ruling, really should re-consider their positions. Some even cheered when Yangus was removed from WCO and banned from TC tournaments due to alias register violation (and other misconducts).

 

Yes, it is no good when players are banned from tournament. Note: when players. Not necessarily high or low level players. I would expect that Overlord read the alias register rules before making this new account and thought what he was doing was perfectly fine and now is surprised that TC feels different about this. 

 

Let TC spell out their verdict, their reasoning and all.. and for those who can not agree with the outcome: tackle their arguments. "He is a top player" is such a weak and lamentable argument.

 

 

 

Seconded. 

 

I'm sorry Nortrom, but from my side, no rule has been broken as Overlord was not in a tournament. I Don't want to make any kind of favoritism, but in this case, it is just not fair that Overlord is considered in the same way than a cheater, we perfectly know he doesn't need to scout setups to be good.


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#31 Edmond Dantes 1844

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Posted 24 May 2019 - 03:35 PM

What community?

We have a dead game, dead site.

♥♥♥♥ing difficult enough to match against...

 

The Forum IS a community whether one feels it is one or not, especially in spite of the turbulence which comes through every once and again.

 

Referring to this website as a "dead game, dead site" seems rather arrogant as there are many fine people here, players of all ranks, who I am sure would heartily disagree with you–in fact, it should come as no surprise that this remark may be regarded as arrogant and offensive.

 

This lack of restraint, as exemplified by this use of language, is hardly the kind of behavior one would expect from an MT let alone someone wanting to be considered for the role.


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#32 Nortrom

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Posted 24 May 2019 - 03:37 PM

I'm sorry Nortrom, but from my side, no rule has been broken as Overlord was not in a tournament. I Don't want to make any kind of favoritism, but in this case, it is just not fair that Overlord is considered in the same way than a cheater, we perfectly know he doesn't need to scout setups to be good.

This exactly outlines why I would not consider endorsing your MT candidacy should it come down to a vote, you are unable to read and comprehend what i just wrote. (Like N1).

 

"Let TC spell out their verdict, their reasoning and all.. and for those who can not agree with the outcome: tackle their arguments. "He is a top player" is such a weak and lamentable argument."

 

 

Great, tackle their arguments. I don't think Overlord would need you as a lawyer, but you're of course free to aid in whichever limited way you can be of aid in this situation.

 

"2) As Sorrow has stated, he should have immunity as he is a top player"

 

 

I am not sure how wanting to grant top players immunity.... is going to convince TC that their decision was incorrect. If anything, it looks like you feel the decision is ok, but you would like to make an exception. 


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#33 Edmond Dantes 1844

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Posted 24 May 2019 - 03:38 PM

...from my side, no rule has been broken as Overlord was not in a tournament.

 

Where exactly is it published, Napo2, that the rules only apply to a player that is currently active in a tournament?!



#34 Jesus_saves

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Posted 24 May 2019 - 03:40 PM

May I ask everyone who votes on having Overlord banned show physical evidence in writing what rule he has broken. Some might not hold him for a nice person, some might have bad feelings against him. But anyone who votes for him being banned please provide evidence and absolutely logic reasoning. Else there is a clear no case against him.

(By the way Nortrom: I spoke up for Spion to TC, but most was in private chat, some in public if you want to review).

The wording is tournament player, and he didn‘t take part in a tournament at that time.

If there is a lawyer on this site active maybe you can let us hear your voice to this case based on the rules of the tournament. Did Overlord do anything illegal?

Thank you

John
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#35 Nortrom

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Posted 24 May 2019 - 03:45 PM

(By the way Nortrom: I spoke up for Spion to TC, but most was in private chat, some in public if you want to review).

Great. I applaud you for that. Ultimately, you're only one, but I appreciate the effort you made nonetheless.

 

The wording is tournament player, and he didn‘t take part in a tournament at that time.
This is the kind of argument that could be of aid I assume. I hope some of the above posters can also see the difference between this very legitimate question and a ridiculous statement "Top players should have immunity".


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#36 Edmond Dantes 1844

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Posted 24 May 2019 - 03:57 PM

The wording is tournament player, and he didn‘t take part in a tournament at that time.

 

Greetings, John! If I understand the question and the matter at hand, the confusion is because of misunderstanding the application of a specific term–tournament player. Based purely upon the normal and every day conventions of English language, the term denotes a group/category of individuals who wish to participate in TC Tournaments. This does not mean that a tournament player is someone actively involved in a tournament, but rather an individual who will or is participating in any TC Tournament event. You are basically registering for a membership and access to TC online Tournaments. The terms of the agreement are clearly stated in paragraph number "2." A players registration and their access is an automatic coverage day in and day out whether they are participating in a tournament or not. It is also clearly stated to:

 

"...please be aware that it is the responsibility of the player to update the Alias Register should they begin a new alias."

 

 

1. Any new tournament player wishing to register for a TC tournament is required to declare the following information (before the tournament begins) by making a post in this thread stating:

 

2. Any Existing tournament player that has already declared their accounts in the previous Alias Register (http://forum.stratego.com/topic/357356-alias-register-declarations/) does not need to make a new post provided that they ensure that they have already declared all aliases that have played a game on this site since February 2, 2017

 

The following link displays all accounts known to have played a game on this site since February 2, 2017. If any of your accounts feature on this list you are obliged to declare it here.

 

https://1drv.ms/x/s!Avwk621CXRcagyPh4vZCmhqFkyUH    (Last updated Sep-10-2018)

 

Note that if an account has played a game since Feburuary 2 2017 but is not on the above list then you are still required to declare it. TC does accept that players may be unable to remember whether they played a game on an account years ago.

 

Any tournament player that is found to have played a game on an alias not disclosed in the Alias Register will likely be banned from tournaments run by TC for 1 year.

If for any reason you do not wish to disclose your GMT timezone, your country or your nationality, please contact a member of TC in private.

 

Finally, please be aware that it is the responsibility of the player to update the Alias Register should they begin a new alias.

 

If you have any questions about the operation of the Alias Register you may ask them here:

 

http://forum.stratego.com/topic/357361-discussion-about-the-alias-register/

 

Added 2-Nov-18:

 

For increased transparency, editing of previous posts in the Alias Register is no longer permitted.

 

All new accounts must be declared in a new post (not just added to an old post).

 

Edited by KissMyCookie, 24 May 2019 - 03:59 PM.


#37 Eagle06

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Posted 24 May 2019 - 04:14 PM

Hi

 

So let's make an example

 

Player "X" has 2 aliases and he has decided to play with them for more than a year. Player "X" has never played tournaments. He then decided to make a new alias and plays with it. He doesn't have to say it to anyone, he is free to do what he wants right? Now he decides to play in tournament and declares them, he is fine, he can play.

 

Overlord had some aliases, he was not in a tournament like player X and decided to make a new one. The day Overlord will register to a tournament, then he will declare his alias and will be fine to play.

 

The situation between X and Overlord is most likely the sam from my point of view, the only difference is that Overlord has played tournaments before.

 

The rules applies for tournament players, as Overlord is not in a tournament now, he just can't be considered a tournament player, but like any other player.


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#38 Eagle06

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Posted 24 May 2019 - 04:21 PM

This exactly outlines why I would not consider endorsing your MT candidacy should it come down to a vote, you are unable to read and comprehend what i just wrote. (Like N1).

 

"Let TC spell out their verdict, their reasoning and all.. and for those who can not agree with the outcome: tackle their arguments. "He is a top player" is such a weak and lamentable argument."

 

 

Great, tackle their arguments. I don't think Overlord would need you as a lawyer, but you're of course free to aid in whichever limited way you can be of aid in this situation.

 

"2) As Sorrow has stated, he should have immunity as he is a top player"

 

 

I am not sure how wanting to grant top players immunity.... is going to convince TC that their decision was incorrect. If anything, it looks like you feel the decision is ok, but you would like to make an exception. 

I know you Don't want me in MT for some reasons… probably because my father is Napo1 and you didn't like what he did in the past… but against, he is not me and I'm not him. Out of this, you focus on the sentence "Top players should have an immunity" when, for my part, I have explained exactly and clearly what I was meaning with it. 

I asked the TC to make a poll to re consider their opinion and explained what, I have the right to do so, MT candidature has Nothing to do here.

 

Overlord doesn't need a lawyer, and I Don't conisder myself like it. I'm just seeing him being banned from tournaments for a rule that in my opinion, he hasn't done. There is a difference between friends and lawyer, and defending a friend who is not wrong, is just normal.


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#39 Edmond Dantes 1844

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Posted 24 May 2019 - 04:24 PM

The rules applies for tournament players, as Overlord is not in a tournament now, he just can't be considered a tournament player, but like any other player.

 

Sorry, but you completely misunderstand the terms of the Alias Registry.



#40 Jesus_saves

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Posted 24 May 2019 - 04:27 PM

All: Please don‘t forget that english is for most players a foreign language. Thus the precision in sentences in a foreign language is not the same as is in your mother tongue. I agree the wording immunity for top players is not the best argument. No elite class should have immunity for whatever, but I see such statements in the light of foreign language expression. And clearly the meaning is to keep top players in the tournaments. By the way I lost against Spion and Overlord in recent tournaments. And I want to play against the best players, even if this means I loose. I believe we all enjoy playing against the best even though we loose, as with every lost game we learn more than winning.

I want to keep the tournaments at the highest level of competition. This is the reason I spoke for Spion and I currently speak in favor of Overlord. We harm our sport if we don‘t allow the top players to participate in the tournaments.

So even if native english language attorneys might put the definition in point one (whoever took part once in his life in a tournament) still the understanding of none native attorneys and courts would be active tournament players. We have clearly to show mercy for this first case. There was definately no ill will in Overlords action and I believe most players agree, he is not a setup scouter...

He loves to play tournaments, why would he risk this if he would have seen any possibility for what currently happens?

Let‘s get back to the positive aspects of our sports and end these negative back and forth messages...

John
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