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Recent OVERLORD ban


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#1 OVERLORD

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Posted 24 May 2019 - 07:24 AM

Moderator note: This topic was actually begun by TheOptician but the author name was changed by the system to OVERLORD when OVERLORD's post was moved here from the reporting topic in which it was originally made, a topic which should be reserved for official postings by TC only.

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#2 TheOptician

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Posted 24 May 2019 - 07:48 AM

This thread has been created to discuss the recent tournament ban for OVERLORD.

I noticed Terror1st is OVERLORD's alias but he hasn't declared it at the Alias Register thread; I think this is something the TC should look into.


I mentioned to my opponents who I am, but didn't post it publicly. Im not currently playing a tournament, so i don't have to declare it. I hope i covered you!

Let me know if you have any further worries... 😉


Playing a game on an account not declared in the Alias Register is considered a breach, regardless of whether you a) inform your opponent or B) have the account listed in your profile or c) whether you are currently playing in a tournament.

This is because the advantage of playing anonymously is still present.

Had you publicly announced that you were retiring from tournament play then perhaps it would be different but as a current tournament participant you are still obligated to be transparent with your accounts.

I note additionally that josephwhite a couple of weeks back asked ‘Who is Terror1st?’ - the obvious implication being that he did not know who you were at the time of the game.

TC are now discussing action.



#3 TheOptician

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Posted 24 May 2019 - 08:01 AM

This whole situation is just boring.
Do whatever you want.
I have informed in the Alias Register topic that im going to make an alias to test my skills, ratio etc.

Also, how i have an "anonymous" advantage when im saying before the game who i am? Funny.

No one is a current participant when he is not playing a tournament. Don't need to share to everyone if he plays or not. Its personal. Past is past. Now is now.

You, me, all of us, should not pay so much attention in something like that. A well known player made an alias just to test his skills. No spying tactics, nothing. Not even 100 games and the 60 were with unknown low rated people. All the known players-tournament players knew that its me.

So, to sum up, dont try to find a problem when there is no problem. Lol!

Greetings.


When I played my first game against "Terror1st", you didn't answer my question until over halfway into the game and you answered it with a "maybe." I then asked you "overlord lol?" and you also responded with "maybe." So, I wouldn't say you mentioned to me who you were until a. I asked and b. when the game was almost over, and even then still nothing concrete. From your record and flag though I assumed it was you from the start, so it didn't really influence the game for me.


Exactly, you knew it was me and we played. 🙂


Well it wasn't incredibly transparent of you, you didn't know I assumed it was you until that moment halfway in the game when I asked if you were Overlord. In other words, you did not mention to me who you were (I mentioned to my opponents who I am).



I disagree. If you want to discuss this subject just pm me. This is not the correct place for this conversation.


>I have informed in the Alias Register topic that im going to make an alias to test my skills, ratio etc.

You stated that you were ‘thinking of starting a Notorious Series’ (whatever that meant) (http://forum.strateg...tions-v2/page-6)

This is not a declaration of any alias , and certainly it is not a declaration of ‘Terror1st’

>how i have an "anonymous" advantage when im saying before the game who i am? Funny.

-Would the tournament community prefer that TC returned to an ‘honesty’ policy? Maybe we should just assume that all players - every time they play a game - will reveal their main account? I’m sure you would agree that this is not an effective proposal because it relies on everyone being completely honest. And unfortunately not everyone is honest all the time.

So you’re right - if every alias announced who they were at the start of the setup time of every game then there wouldn’t be a problem. Texaspete (a tournament player) has already stated that he does not think this was the case. And we haven’t heard from josephwhite yet. And then TC would have to try and judge cases where one player says ‘I told him my main’ and the other says ‘No you didn’t’. I’m sure as an MT member you would agree that those cases would be pretty tricky to rule on.

To return to an honesty policy would be a big step backwards from the Alias Register - which makes things simple. If you want to start a new alias then fine - you only have to declare it.


>No one is a current participant when he is not playing a tournament. Don't need to share to everyone if he plays or not. Its personal. Past is past. Now is now.

-The terms of the register are pretty clear. ‘Any tournament player that is found to have played a game on an alias not disclosed in the Alias Register will likely be banned from tournaments run by TC for 1 year.’

You do not suddenly cease to be a tournament player the day a tournament finishes.

I’m not sure you really believe that it is ok to do what you want between tournaments and defend the absence of a declaration by stating that you are temporarily not a tournament player. Maybe you would win that case in a courtroom. But you couldn’t argue that starting anonymous aliases in the few weeks between tournaments is within the spirit of transparency.

>boring

You are right it is boring to declare your accounts. Aliases are great fun. It is why the site will struggle to stop them. You started this thread to remove aliases. Is that boring?


>So, to sum up, dont try to find a problem when there is no problem. Lol!

Lol indeed.

The tournament community (and to keep it relevant to this thread - the wider community at large) I think would agree that there is a problem when aliases are able to play anonymously, so I would disagree.

Tournament players: do speak up.



#4 TheOptician

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Posted 24 May 2019 - 08:02 AM

As a consequence of breaching the Alias Register, TC have voted that OVERLORD serve a tournament ban of 1 year.

The account 'Terror1st' was not declared.

It may be stating the obvious, but a claim that an undeclared account has only been used in between tournaments cannot be accepted by TC as justification for failing to declare.

This is ridiculous. But yes, this is the only way to stop me.

Without doing anything illegal, without playing a tournament, without having bad purposes (if i had why tell everyone who i am?) ONLY WANT THE GOOD OF THE SITE, BUT JEALOUSY FROM SOME PEOPLE IS FACT.

Community: please see these ridiculous TC members acting like they have some extra power vs us and do whatever they want. The thing that you organise tournaments behind a PC is nothing. Everyone can do that. You should respect players and much more, a well known and the #1 player that does the best he can for the good of the site.

First time im so angry with someone in stratego world.

Stay with your sadly and arbitrary opinions and actions. STRATEGO means live.

Bunch of idiots.



#5 Sorrow

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Posted 24 May 2019 - 08:15 AM

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Edited by Sorrow, 28 July 2019 - 12:55 AM.


#6 OVERLORD

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Posted 24 May 2019 - 08:20 AM

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#7 Great Manos

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Posted 24 May 2019 - 08:25 AM

Can't see the forest for the trees.
There are too many secrets accounts out there for spying reasons and we punish a player who wins 98 at 100 games.
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#8 TheOptician

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Posted 24 May 2019 - 08:29 AM

OVERLORD,

If I understand you correctly you are saying that the terms of the register should not apply in between tournaments as you informed all your opponents of your true identity at the start of each game. (You are not alone in that opinion as Napoleon 2eme has also expressed that he thinks this is ok).

You did mention in the Alias Register that you were thinking of starting a Notorious series - what did you mean by that?

Sorrow - You are making a couple of points:

1. Ban length of 1 year for Register breaches is too long when the player tells all of their opponents of their identity at the start of the game
2. Top players should have immunity

If we were to relax the terms of the register - how would TC determine whether a player really is informing all of their opponents at the start of the game? You have stated that OVERLORD did tell you, but texaspete09 has stated that he wasn’t told (EDIT: which OVERLORD has now confirmed because he didn’t like his manner). How would you expect TC to handle those cases?

Re: immunity. I could never support a policy that favours a player due to their skill level. That really makes a mockery of any rule.
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#9 OVERLORD

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Posted 24 May 2019 - 08:43 AM

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#10 texaspete09

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Posted 24 May 2019 - 08:44 AM

I answered maybe to texaspete cause i didn't like his talking style. I found it ironic. Also he knew it was me. Why making it such a big "problem" ? Why want to confirm it was me while already knew it? That is ironic. Thats the only reason i didn't tell him. I played with Napoleon and i told him that this is me in the beggining of the game. The #1 player should be apologized to the online "community" for what? Spying tactics? Or for harshing texaspete (an unknown player) soul?
You are ridiculous and bureaucrats.

What is wrong with my talking style? All I was trying to say is you weren’t as transparent as you could have been, I wasn’t trying to get you banned from tournaments, I didn’t even know that was not allowed; I admit I as well thought that this alias was within the rules since Overlord was not in any tournaments. My feelings were: if you weren’t completely transparent with me then were you transparent with everyone else?

Also, not sure what you mean by harshing of my soul, but I do take your addressing me as an unknown player as an insult. I am accountable for your only 2 losses on that account I think I deserve some respect (there were some fortunate miner lottos involved in the first game I’ll admit that).

Again, sorry if you feel I am the reason for your ban, you are a great player and I always enjoy playing you.

Edited by texaspete09, 24 May 2019 - 08:46 AM.

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#11 OVERLORD

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Posted 24 May 2019 - 08:50 AM

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#12 TheOptician

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Posted 24 May 2019 - 08:54 AM

YOU and some other TC members give me a 1 year ban because of some words that an unknown stratego players texaspete have said

I’ll just reply to the relevant part - the ban has nothing to do with texaspete or whether you told him or not - it doesn’t matter. The ban is for not declaring an account in the Alias Register.

Now will you clarify what you meant with the Notoriois series post?

#13 OVERLORD

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Posted 24 May 2019 - 08:55 AM

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#14 Jesus_saves

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Posted 24 May 2019 - 09:08 AM

Charlie, may I add a word to this? Not reading now again every word of the rules of the different tournaments, my understanding was the following: If you play an actual active tournament and you have an undeclared Alias, you are in breach of the rules and thus you receive a ban (cause you take a potential unfair advantage). This happened to Spion... without intent, when he realized this happened cause he was told by one player, he immediately registered and received a 6 month ban. Which I found harsh, but could understand.

Now in this understanding described above Overlord didn‘t take part in the Champions league tournament (maybe cause of his activities as Terror1st), so out of my perspective not playing an active tournament, he is not in breach, and thus also doesn‘t need any mercy or being the world champions an immunity status.

Also taking into account that he pre-announced he would run a test, should be taken into consideration. If my reading of Josph‘s statement is correct he didn‘t play Overlord but just saw another star name rising. Looking at the statics and Greek flag and type of name, it was pretty obvious for me that this person behind the name could almost be one guy, named John. Asking him in a private thread he confirmed that openly to me many days ago.

We should stop this spirit of working against each other and really start to think how we can develop the game to become more like Chess from the importance and maybe in the future also price money for victories.

I would thus really request from the tournament team to rethink their position in light of above to give Overlord a ban for a year.

From the understanding I had (and I believe many will agree to this) Overlord was and is not in breach of the rules and the spirit of the game. Other players might need setup scouting, but there are few players which don‘t need that and for sure Overlord is one of them, just based on his skills.

It will not help our sport if we ban the current world champion from tournaments.

But I also agree it would have been better if John would have declared the account immediately when opening the account in the Alias register. He made maybe a small mistake, but please let us all stay reasonable and focus to bring our sport jointly forward and not destroy ourselves...

So please take this tournament ban for one year back...

Thank you for considering my request.

John
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#15 texaspete09

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Posted 24 May 2019 - 09:16 AM

Thats your own point of view. Doesn't mean you are right.
You were ironic and talking like " wow, nice record, do you have another account? "
-No, i started playing 2 weeks ago for the first time and im not losing!
Funny, very funny. Greek flag good record, high elo. If you ask if its me its ironic, like you did.


I get what you are saying now. When I initially asked if you had any other accounts in our game you thought I was just fooling around as if we both knew that I knew it was you. Now I was not 100% sure it was you, you were 74-0 at the time and I think there are other players on this site that can (or have) achieved that, like Spion, Sem, Major Nelson. I see this whole situation now as a simple misunderstanding where you took my initial question for irony. In this instance, it makes much more sense now why you didn’t feel it was necessary to answer my question immediately.
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#16 OVERLORD

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Posted 24 May 2019 - 09:19 AM

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#17 OVERLORD

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Posted 24 May 2019 - 09:27 AM

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#18 Jesus_saves

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Posted 24 May 2019 - 09:36 AM

I took the time of reading the rules which I found in the champions league rule set.

I copy it here:

Players are also required to fulfil obligations regarding disclosure of aliases and basic information as set out in Rule 2 iii) in the Alias Register: (http://forum.strateg...eclarations-v2/)

Registering for this tournament is considered acceptance of the Rules

Players that attempt to register after the deadline are unlikely to be admitted, but may be accepted depending on the number of participants

Eligibility is subject to the following conditions:

i) ELO

• Players must be ranked at ELO 250 or higher by Saturday April 27th 23.59GMT
• A player may also enter if their ELO is below 250, provided that they have participated with that account in any previous tournament organised by TC or WCO.

ii) Prior Disqualifications & Account Suspensions

• Players serving TC tournament bans will not be admitted
• Players recently disqualified from a TC tournament may not be admitted (TC will decide on a case-by-case basis, depending on the reason for the prior disqualification)

iii) Disclosure of Aliases & Basic Information

Players are required to state, in the Alias Register (http://forum.strateg...eclarations-v2/):

• GMT Timezone
• Country of residence
• Nationality
• The account names of all aliases that they hold (past or present) on Stratego.com (exception below)
• Any new/future accounts created by a player after the time of registration must also be disclosed in the Alias Register

Exception: If a player for any reason does not wish to disclose the account name of an alias, they may alternatively email customercare@stratego.com to request the account be deleted.

Any tournament player that is found to play a game on any alias not disclosed in the Alias Register will be banned from tournaments run by TC for a period of 6 to 18 months

Charlie and your fellows can you please explain to the public which rule was broken by Overlord from above wording. I‘m not a lawyer, but I work with contract text a bit and I find no breach at all, to be honest.

So please get back to the good spirit of our sport and Overlord can I ask you to delete your posting in the other thread, so not many people would read it? Please ALL stop harming each other and the sport and thank you Texaspete for understanding John‘s „wrong“ interpretation of your words.

So I hope all can now be solved and we get back to positive energy again...

John
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#19 OVERLORD

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Posted 24 May 2019 - 09:48 AM

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#20 TheOptician

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Posted 24 May 2019 - 09:52 AM

Will you explain what you meant with your post in the Alias Register about a Notorious Series?

This is not an unreasonable question.

TC ultimately exists to serve the tournament community. If the community feels that the wording of the Register is ambiguous - and that a tournament player is only deemed to be a tournament player during an actual tournament - then we would take this into account. After all TC are all tournament players too.




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