I'm not so sure it's as easy as you say, Robert, to scroll back but I understand your point.
When playing on computer, it’s a piece o’ cake…quick, simple, easy…done.
(GaryLShelton)...you're awfully good at it and using editing tools and all.
Not especially. No doubt there are others here with far more skill and highly developed know-how than I possess.
(GaryLShelton)All I mean is that I think sometimes computers can be flaky.
Does not matter…if the computer functions and the person can take screenshots of the offending material, then they can take screenshots of anything leading up to and/or after said chat.
(GaryLShelton)...our very simple requirements for draw refusal are often not met so this might not be either.
Irrelevant–simple criteria… “ALL BattleChat must be submitted as evidence for review by the MT.” This is far less daunting than any draw refusal case submission and only asks players filing complaints to collect and submit only the immediate evidence…that from BattleChat…if they can take one single screenshot, then there is no excuse or reason why they cannot include all of that BattleChat exchange.
Computers are not flaky…people are flaky.
...another objection to requiring these complete conversations would be that there could easily be a lot of screenshots for some complaints. This could possibly then be an undue requirement on someone who honestly got skewered by a foul-mouthed opponent. Right?
This is a good point, Gary. On the other hand, if one is so enraged by the abuse that they wish to file, then they must present a complete case. No one told them to open the BattleChat…that is purely an option. There have been many games I have played in the last few months where someone went off on an awful rant, but for me, when I receive a single nasty comment, I close the chat and refuse to even think about it.
If a player feels so strongly that they want to punish their foul-mouthed opponent, then the burden of proof is theirs, plus they must also prove that they are beyond this level of behavior. NebojsaN962’s volatile reaction to theon raises questions for me. It would come as no surprise if he had made a single retort to his foul-mouthed opponent’s ugly chat messages, but then he should be more than willing to accept his role in the exchange.
I am no hypocrite, Gary, and you know that I had submitted cases with complete BattleChat, even when I knew in one instance that it would have some blow-back on me–I still submitted the material…do you recall? My opponent was found guilty, but for my few comments, MT thought to send me a warning letter. Again…an honest player has nothing to hide.
(GaryLShelton) Although I get your point about all this, for me, there are clear times when my feeling is that nothing the victim could have said would ameliorate the vileness of some of what we often see.
In a court of law, all evidence pertinent to a case must be submitted for review by the judicial authority. Obfuscating any evidence (withholding facts, taking things out of context, etc…) is against the law, and although it happens all of the time in court, legal professionals have a way of getting facts out into the open…not 100% of the time as that is the nature of court, but that is the goal. Judges do take into consideration how much provocation is endured by one party, and based upon context can render a decision taking that into account…this is something the MT currently does too; so yes, if a victim is pushed so hard that they call their opponent a nasty name, based upon the initial attack, the victim is giving back an understandable reply. If, however, the so-called victim is helping to escalate a situation, then they must be held accountable for that action.
(GaryLShelton) At those times, the showerings of such sweet-smelling words on the victim should be punishable hard, no matter what the victim said to incite them, at least that's how I feel.
The person filing the complaint must trust in the MT’s ability to read a case, such as you described. If the player filing a complaint will not trust the MT to do so, then they have already put their credibility into question and doubt.
(GaryLShelton) Disallowing a complaint on the technical grounds that part of a conversation wasn't produced would not then feel right.
I disagree–“cherry-picking” evidence is a complete manipulation of the process, and that by far, not only does not feel right…it is categorically WRONG.
(GaryLShelton) But I tell you what. Here's what I'm thinking. What if we had the requirement to produce the entire conversation, as you wish, for complainants who make 3 or more such complaints a month?
No reason to scoreboard to this one, Gary. It complicates things and defeats the whole purpose. Players willing to file a complaint against another player must trust the MT to be able to do its job, and if they did succumb to chatting a rude message back, then they must trust that the MT will take the circumstances into account when rendering a verdict.
Take josephwhite, rgillis783, Napoleons1+2, TheOptician, yourself, and at least a dozen others. If you guys post something that is from a vile opponent, I personally don't doubt it. I am not interested in asking for all the folderol of the complete conversation to prove it. Certain of you have earned a little privilege of respect that is borne by your continued posting here which shows your nature to me sufficiently where that should not be required.
I believe all of the above mentioned players would still adhere to the rules and would follow procedure…none of us need any special license to take a shortcut to justice. No…even if our credibility is fully intact, and our integrity is beyond question, further demonstration of the consistent nature of our honor is always a welcome exercise.
IBut lest that sound like favoritism, I would apply the same 3 per month rule on you guys. Since I don't expect you guys will complain 3+ times a month, that will mean, ergo, that only those who do complain often (3+times/month) will have to produce this complete conversation evidence you are requesting.
What do you think? 3 is a purely arbitrary number. Should it be 2? 4? 5?
Zero. All complaints require complete BattleChat. All players obey the same rules and observe the same criteria as everyone else, 24/7.
Edited by KissMyCookie, 30 April 2019 - 09:32 AM.