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WinterTourn 2019 - Questions


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#1 Master Mind

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Posted 05 January 2019 - 06:23 PM

If you have any question about WinterTourn 2019 please ask here and a member of TC will get back to you.



#2 UnladenSwallow

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 05:51 PM

I hope TC will have some integrity and remove obvious alias accounts (El Paso) from the tournament before it begins



#3 astros

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Posted 20 January 2019 - 02:38 AM

Given the negative effect that withdrawals had on the Pyramid League, is the TC concerned by the registration of players who have a recent track record of dropping out of tournaments after a loss? How will such registrations be handled to ensure an enjoyable tournament for all?
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#4 TheOptician

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Posted 20 January 2019 - 02:20 PM

Given the negative effect that withdrawals had on the Pyramid League, is the TC concerned by the registration of players who have a recent track record of dropping out of tournaments after a loss?

 

I'm not concerned. It's a Double Elimination tournament. If someone does withdraw after a loss then the impact is restricted to one player getting a bye in the Rehab Bracket.

 

How will such registrations be handled to ensure an enjoyable tournament for all?

 

I don't consider that a withdrawal in this tournament has much (if any) impact on enjoyment. Perhaps the player who gets the bye will enjoy it, perhaps they won't. Perhaps the remaining players in the tournament will enjoy the withdrawal or the bye or perhaps they won't.

 

The broader question on this topic would be can/should TC take any action against players who withdraw. This has been discussed a little already in the Proposal Log  (http://forum.strateg...amid-standings/) with TC reaching the conclusion that players will be admitted to the Pyramid League on a case-by-case basis. Ultimately this would mean that players who withdraw on multiple occasions are at risk of being refused entry.

 

Tournaments in which withdrawals have a low impact (i.e. WinterTourn) are unlikely to see player registrations being blocked (unless they are already banned).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



#5 Napoleon 1er

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Posted 21 January 2019 - 10:57 PM

I agree withdrawal from a tournament is not a big issue but as Astros says it has some negative effect, so I believe TC/WCO team may introduce a kind aof penalty for withdrawal in tournament. Something like:

1st withdrawal: penalty is ban for the next official online tournament

2nd withdrawal: penalty is ban for following 3 official online tournaments

3rd withdrawal: Penalty is ban for any tournament in following 12 months

etc...


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#6 TheOptician

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Posted 22 January 2019 - 10:22 AM

Personally I wouldn't support a ban for withdrawing from a single tournament.  Without knowing the consequences, how could a tournament body make this call?

 

Secondly, it depends on the tournament whether there is any impact of withdrawal. There is minimal impact to withdraw from the knockout stages of any tournament. Withdrawing from Pyramid incurs automatic relegation, so I would argue that (Base aside) the player is already 'punished'. 

 

So I would argue that 

 

1. High Impact Withdrawals should qualify as tournaments from which withdrawal could earn a ban (eg WCO or Champions League Groups)

2. There must be more than one withdrawal (within a certain timeframe) to consider banning a player.

 

TC have already stated that they will consider admissions on a case by case basis, but I would expect the above to be taken into account (at least in my opinion).



#7 Nortrom

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Posted 22 January 2019 - 10:58 AM

I'm not sure whether impact should make a difference.

 

If someone throws a tantrum for losing 2 games in a row and wants to quit, but it has little impact, why would this be handled less severe over a case where the impact is huge, but totally beyond someone's control?


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#8 TheOptician

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Posted 22 January 2019 - 11:09 AM

Because withdrawing from a high impact tournament (can) threaten the integrity of tournament results.

 

A bye here or there in a knock-out tournament is no big deal, but withdrawing from a round-robin or a League scenario with some games unplayed causes undesirable outcomes (i.e. you have to compare players who have not played the same games). Withdrawing from a Swiss Perfect can result in your opponent getting a free victory, or it can alter the draw so that remaining players get different games than they would have otherwise - and it will cause WCO to use the 3.5 M-Buch point compromise for withdrawn players.



#9 Nortrom

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Posted 22 January 2019 - 01:23 PM

It's still the same action.

 

I think it's more about the disrespectful action towards organisers and other competitors. If you are unlucky enough to withdraw in a " difficult "  tournament, I don't see why this would be treated differently from an " easy to fix " tournament. 

 

KO Tournaments won't often have dropouts for the simple reason that a lost game equals elimination (save for double elim..). 

 

 

 

I do think, ultimately, as organisers, we'll have to look into something. It doesn't have to result into an immediate lengthy ban/exclusion. 

 

We probably could do something like:

 

1st drop out: 3 month exclusion

2nd drop out: 6 month exclusion

3rd drop out: 12 month exclusion

 

Of course a tournament organising body should be able to, on individual basis, also be granted the opportunity to let players miss out on the next edition(s) of a tournament. For example a drop out from WCO, would remain unaffected by a 6 month exclusion due to the timeframe. We would atleast be able to prevent those players from next edition(s) should we feel the situation warrants such action.

 

 

 

My biggest beef with any exclusion system would be that players who face legitimate issues in real life, unforeseen change etc. will be penalized too. Crybabies that leave a tournament after losing games I couldn't care less for. 


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#10 TheOptician

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Posted 22 January 2019 - 01:34 PM

 

 

My biggest beef with any exclusion system would be that players who face legitimate issues in real life, unforeseen change etc. will be penalized too. Crybabies that leave a tournament after losing games I couldn't care less for. 

 

This is why i think it is important that a player's first withdrawal is given the benefit of the doubt.

 

If a player wants to withdraw from a Double Elimination tournament because they lost their first game - then while that player may fit in your 'crybaby' category -  I don't think organisation teams should start 'judging' the circumstances of the players's personal situation (which i think is inappropriate). Neither would I care much if it happened in a Double Elimination tournament.

 

When player withdrawals start to affect other results, it becomes - in my opinion more of an issue.

 

I'm not condoning the behaviour of those who withdraw due to sour grapes, I'm just saying that a one-off case isn't enough to earn a ban, and a withdrawal from a Double Elimination tournament isn't worthy of  ban.



#11 Nortrom

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Posted 22 January 2019 - 02:01 PM

You can add a 0 to it.. or change 1-2-3 to 1-2-3-4 same thing.

 

And no - the ones leaving out of spite - are making a deliberate choice. 


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#12 TheOptician

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Posted 22 January 2019 - 02:31 PM

You can add a 0 to it.. or change 1-2-3 to 1-2-3-4 same thing.

 

And no - the ones leaving out of spite - are making a deliberate choice. 

 

They are. But how are you going to judge that correctly?

 

Player A and Player B both withdraw following a loss. 

 

Are you going to ask them both why they withdrew and then decide if you are convinced by their reasoning? They might not want to divulge any info (understandably). Ultimately, you'd be guessing in many situations.



#13 Nortrom

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Posted 22 January 2019 - 03:00 PM

Often there is a tell.

 

My main concern with things like this, is exactly what you wrote.


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#14 TheOptician

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Posted 22 January 2019 - 03:05 PM

So we probably agree that as you can't judge cirumstances effectively/fairly, that the only thing that should warrant a ban is multiple withdrawals. Of course a player could suffer unfortunate personal circumstances on multiple occasions - but at some stage a line has to be drawn to prevent all the other withdrawals that are not through personal circumstances. 



#15 FGP_

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Posted 29 January 2019 - 05:15 PM

Actually, it's "FGP_" instead of "FPG_" which is written in the brackets :)


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#16 TheOptician

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 07:44 PM

Actually, it's "FGP_" instead of "FPG_" which is written in the brackets :)

 

I don't think that typos can be fixed once the tourney begins...



#17 TheOptician

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Posted 03 February 2019 - 08:32 PM

Actually, it's "FGP_" instead of "FPG_" which is written in the brackets :)

OK now actually fixed


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#18 Fairway

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Posted 10 February 2019 - 07:40 PM

What is the exact reason why El Paso was removed from the tournament?


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#19 TheOptician

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Posted 10 February 2019 - 07:47 PM

What is the exact reason why El Paso was removed from the tournament?

 

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