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Report Draw Refusal Here (2019)


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#181 Lottorush

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 07:38 PM

MT ruled this one as No case, unfortunately, because only four minutes passed between the draw refusals. This is simply not enough time. You tell your opponent in chat that he has 5 minutes, but the 5 minute between draw refusal rule only applies to "clear" draws (e.g. two marshals running around the lake, no miners on either side, or spies). In a situation like yours, we need 10 minutes between each refusal because theon can still make progress in the game, especially because your flag is open. 

 

Apologies for the very late response- three cases open against this player at one time was very interesting to deal with.

 

No worries!  I was actually unaware of the time rule on this until recently, so my bad.  I'm just glad Theon is being reprimanded in other cases; he's really obnoxious.  


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#182 Yellowhat

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 09:16 AM

https://imgur.com/gallery/xP4b4M1

 

Shows everything.  I forced a trade for marshalls but all he did was shuffling and refuse a draw continuing.  

 

Pending admin action, player Beggarr will have 113 points deducted from his rating and he will receive a warning letter. Lottorush will get 13 points for the draw. 


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#183 ARGITHEA

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 10:46 AM

.
Sorry, yes, this was dropped by me this time. It was decided in your favor and it appears to us the points have been adjusted on this matter in the past few days.

Hi

Can you please check again this case ?

https://imgur.com/a/RLQ8yfQ

As you can see between the 2 draw request he makes circlus with his marshal and colonel and time waste but i manage to hit his colonel (you may see the graveyard), so that means that i attack and so i think that you may consider to give me back my 113 points

Thanks in advance for your understanding



#184 GaryLShelton

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 01:55 PM

Hi
Can you please check again this case ?
https://imgur.com/a/RLQ8yfQ
As you can see between the 2 draw request he makes circlus with his marshal and colonel and time waste but i manage to hit his colonel (you may see the graveyard), so that means that i attack and so i think that you may consider to give me back my 113 points
Thanks in advance for your understanding

.
ARGITHEA, you have already been told in pm by the MT not to post with any other account than HELLENIC MAJOR.

Choose now whether you wish to change your Forum account to ARGITHEA or BYZANTINE WARRIOR or keep HELLENIC MAJOR. But you cannot keep starting new Forum accounts or they will all be permanently banned.

As for the decision you are appealing, it is a minerless game with bombed-in flags and you cannot capture his highest piece. The decision will not be overturned.

i77rs4m.jpg

The complete GS&F Rules can be found here: http://forum.strateg...rum-rules-2016/

Draw Refusal Rules, specifically, can be read here: http://forum.strateg...931#entry468931


#185 tobermoryx

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 06:39 PM

MT ruled this one as No case, unfortunately, because only four minutes passed between the draw refusals. This is simply not enough time. You tell your opponent in chat that he has 5 minutes, but the 5 minute between draw refusal rule only applies to "clear" draws (e.g. two marshals running around the lake, no miners on either side, or spies). In a situation like yours, we need 10 minutes between each refusal because theon can still make progress in the game, especially because your flag is open. 

 

Apologies for the very late response- three cases open against this player at one time was very interesting to deal with.

 

While it's fair enough to insist on 5 minutes I don't get why the location of the flag is at all relevant. Also players who have that attitude in the chat are basically admitting guilt.


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#186 GaryLShelton

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 07:38 PM

While it's fair enough to insist on 5 minutes I don't get why the location of the flag is at all relevant. Also players who have that attitude in the chat are basically admitting guilt.

 

It's not fair to insist on 5 minutes if it's not a clear draw.   Regardless of the flag, this was not a clear draw.  This was a no-progress draw. As such, though we've been flexible on it, yes, 10 minutes is the standard for a no-progress draw.  While the opponent is clearly not a nice guy, he wasn't proven to refuse the draw for long enough a time.  



i77rs4m.jpg

The complete GS&F Rules can be found here: http://forum.strateg...rum-rules-2016/

Draw Refusal Rules, specifically, can be read here: http://forum.strateg...931#entry468931


#187 ARGITHEA

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 11:01 PM

.
ARGITHEA, you have already been told in pm by the MT not to post with any other account than HELLENIC MAJOR.

Choose now whether you wish to change your Forum account to ARGITHEA or BYZANTINE WARRIOR or keep HELLENIC MAJOR. But you cannot keep starting new Forum accounts or they will all be permanently banned.

As for the decision you are appealing, it is a minerless game with bombed-in flags and you cannot capture his highest piece. The decision will not be overturned.

Ok, i will keep this

But it is not need to be so hard with me, i did't know that rule, so i give you my sorry

About the case i still have 3 majors on board so i could win him, it is not need to take the flag to win, don't you think ?



#188 Lord Longbottom

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 11:54 PM

Reporting Lord Worm for draw refusal.  He:

  • Had no miners and could not get my flag
  • He had only 2 pieces and could not trap my final scout.

I offered the draw 3 times and explained draw refusal, but he ignored.

 

I have the draw refusal screenshot and the Defeat screenshot below.  Note the time at the upper right; 10+ minutes had elapsed.

 

Please restore 15 points.  Thanks.

 

draw-refusal.png

 

draw-refusal-defeat.png

 

draw-refusal.png



#189 GaryLShelton

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 12:26 AM

Ok, i will keep this

But it is not need to be so hard with me, i did't know that rule, so i give you my sorry

About the case i still have 3 majors on board so i could win him, it is not need to take the flag to win, don't you think ?

 

I see you posted elsewhere today with HELLENIC MAJOR.  So, just to be clear, are you saying you wish to keep ARGITHEA as your permanent forum account?  Please confirm.

 

All the others will be flagged from the forum, though you will still be able to play games with any of your accounts.

 

As to your game question, your 3 major advantage is no advantage and will not allow you to win the game.  How do you propose to ever capture his marshal? You need to either capture your opponent's flag or ALL his pieces.  



i77rs4m.jpg

The complete GS&F Rules can be found here: http://forum.strateg...rum-rules-2016/

Draw Refusal Rules, specifically, can be read here: http://forum.strateg...931#entry468931


#190 GaryLShelton

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 12:47 AM

Reporting Lord Worm for draw refusal.  He:

  • Had no miners and could not get my flag
  • He had only 2 pieces and could not trap my final scout.

I offered the draw 3 times and explained draw refusal, but he ignored.

 

I have the draw refusal screenshot and the Defeat screenshot below.  Note the time at the upper right; 10+ minutes had elapsed.

 

Please restore 15 points.  Thanks.

 

 

 

First of all, welcome to the forum. 

 

For your case, this is a bit tough.   You say that your opponent only had 2 pieces but by the graveyards he had 3: a marshal, major, and captain to your scout and sergeant.  He still couldn't capture your scout, however, at least I do not believe so.  Nevertheless, for your information the MT has always taken a dim view of a draw refusal victim trying to expend his final pieces on bombs and such.  It is typically viewed as an attempt to win the game, for every piece you strike has the possibility of being his flag.  This particularly applies to strikes with the scout.

 

Also, for your information, the draw refusal rules are found at the link at the bottom of any of my posts.  There you will find the requirements for evidence for draw refusals. In the future be advised that we are looking for time between refusal screenshots.  5 minutes for a clear draw and 10 for a no-progress draw.   Here you only have one refusal and without a second you have no bookend, as it were.   I will open a case because stranger things have happened, but that's what you're up against here.  



i77rs4m.jpg

The complete GS&F Rules can be found here: http://forum.strateg...rum-rules-2016/

Draw Refusal Rules, specifically, can be read here: http://forum.strateg...931#entry468931


#191 Lord Longbottom

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 05:08 AM

First of all, welcome to the forum. 

 

For your case, this is a bit tough.   You say that your opponent only had 2 pieces but by the graveyards he had 3: a marshal, major, and captain to your scout and sergeant.  He still couldn't capture your scout, however, at least I do not believe so.  Nevertheless, for your information the MT has always taken a dim view of a draw refusal victim trying to expend his final pieces on bombs and such.  It is typically viewed as an attempt to win the game, for every piece you strike has the possibility of being his flag.  This particularly applies to strikes with the scout.

 

Also, for your information, the draw refusal rules are found at the link at the bottom of any of my posts.  There you will find the requirements for evidence for draw refusals. In the future be advised that we are looking for time between refusal screenshots.  5 minutes for a clear draw and 10 for a no-progress draw.   Here you only have one refusal and without a second you have no bookend, as it were.   I will open a case because stranger things have happened, but that's what you're up against here.  

Hi Gary, 

 

Sorry, he did have 3 pieces: he had a Captain at D10,  guarding the flag on the right side of the tripod.  But he couldn't bring it into play b/c I would have been able to Scout his Flag.  I figured this is a draw refusal b/c we could have kept playing until the end of time, and I knew where his Flag was located but I could never get to it. I'll review the rules but he refused 3 draws and I allowed 10+ minutes to elapse.  Thanks.



#192 GaryLShelton

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 08:43 AM

I'll review the rules but he refused 3 draws and I allowed 10+ minutes to elapse.  Thanks.

.
This is good. I'm sure you'll be better prepared next time. Thank you. Just remember the 10 minutes required is 10 minutes of no-progress evidence in the game (read: no change in the graveyards for either player) between two or three refusal screens. Not between a refusal screen and a defeat screen.

i77rs4m.jpg

The complete GS&F Rules can be found here: http://forum.strateg...rum-rules-2016/

Draw Refusal Rules, specifically, can be read here: http://forum.strateg...931#entry468931


#193 Lord Longbottom

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 07:38 PM

So to be clear: I offer a draw (2nd).  He refuses.  *Then* and wait ten minutes, and offer the final draw, as evidenced w/screenshots? Then, screenshot the defeat screen?  And in all 3 screenshots the graveyard must be the same?



#194 GaryLShelton

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 08:59 PM

You only need two screenshots separated by ten minutes but if you have three and there's 10 minutes between the first and be the third, then it will be fine. Just not between a refusal screen and a defeat screen.

And, yes, no progress means no changes in the graveyards between screens ideally.

i77rs4m.jpg

The complete GS&F Rules can be found here: http://forum.strateg...rum-rules-2016/

Draw Refusal Rules, specifically, can be read here: http://forum.strateg...931#entry468931


#195 GaryLShelton

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Posted 17 April 2019 - 06:36 AM

Reporting Lord Worm for draw refusal.

.
The MT views this as no case due to a missing second refusal screen.

i77rs4m.jpg

The complete GS&F Rules can be found here: http://forum.strateg...rum-rules-2016/

Draw Refusal Rules, specifically, can be read here: http://forum.strateg...931#entry468931


#196 ARGITHEA

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 08:16 PM

I see you posted elsewhere today with HELLENIC MAJOR.  So, just to be clear, are you saying you wish to keep ARGITHEA as your permanent forum account?  Please confirm.

 

All the others will be flagged from the forum, though you will still be able to play games with any of your accounts.

 

As to your game question, your 3 major advantage is no advantage and will not allow you to win the game.  How do you propose to ever capture his marshal? You need to either capture your opponent's flag or ALL his pieces.  

If i do some circles with all my pieces so the opponent be confused about my pieces who is who and attack him i will capture his marshal by mine. I have did that in the past with great success. So i can win him, don't you think ?



#197 GaryLShelton

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 11:33 PM

If i do some circles with all my pieces so the opponent be confused about my pieces who is who and attack him i will capture his marshal by mine. I have did that in the past with great success. So i can win him, don't you think ?

.
Yes, that is a valid thing to try. But you only have 10 minutes to achieve it. If you have not trapped your opponent by then, he is within his rights to report you for draw refusal if you do not accept one at that time.

NOW, WHICH ACCOUNT DO YOU WISH TO KEEP ACTIVE IN THE FORUM? ARGITHEA or HELLENIC MAJOR?

i77rs4m.jpg

The complete GS&F Rules can be found here: http://forum.strateg...rum-rules-2016/

Draw Refusal Rules, specifically, can be read here: http://forum.strateg...931#entry468931


#198 SQA

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Posted 19 April 2019 - 11:09 PM

Reporting Nightmare190 for draw refusal. We played QUICK ARENA, and both ended up with Spies and flags bombed in the corners. I offered draw twice, ten minutes apart, and both offers were refused with no progress. The screenshots are here:

 

 

https://drive.google...CUr8wyP7A0f8SDz



#199 GaryLShelton

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Posted 20 April 2019 - 02:17 AM

Reporting Nightmare190 for draw refusal. We played QUICK ARENA, and both ended up with Spies and flags bombed in the corners. I offered draw twice, ten minutes apart, and both offers were refused with no progress. The screenshots are here:
 
 
https://drive.google...CUr8wyP7A0f8SDz

.

I see no timestamps on your screenshots. Do you have proof of the ten minutes you claim?

i77rs4m.jpg

The complete GS&F Rules can be found here: http://forum.strateg...rum-rules-2016/

Draw Refusal Rules, specifically, can be read here: http://forum.strateg...931#entry468931


#200 SQA

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Posted 21 April 2019 - 12:43 AM

.

I see no timestamps on your screenshots. Do you have proof of the ten minutes you claim?

 

The timestamps are in the bottom right corner of the screenshots.






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