Jump to content


Photo

Report Draw Refusal Here (2019)


  • Please log in to reply
402 replies to this topic

#1 GaryLShelton

GaryLShelton

    Flagbearer

  • Moderators
  • 6,494 posts
  • Coat of arms
  • Silver Colonel

Posted 01 January 2019 - 09:26 PM

Please report any cases of draw refusal that you encounter in 2019 here in this topic. The MT will review them and post judgements in this same topic. Remember to include adequate proof, in the form of screenshots and/or videos, or your claim will not be heard by the MT and your post may be hidden.

The 2018 topic will soon be moved to the archive, where it will still be viewable, though read-only. Any questions on cases from the old thread will have to be made in this new one.

For your convenience the evidence requirements part of our draw refusal rules is reprinted in red in the top of the next post. For the full draw refusal rules you can continue reading below that. For the complete GS&FR go to this link:
http://forum.strateg...rum-rules-2016/


i77rs4m.jpg

The complete GS&F Rules can be found here: http://forum.strateg...rum-rules-2016/

Draw Refusal Rules, specifically, can be read here: http://forum.strateg...931#entry468931


#2 GaryLShelton

GaryLShelton

    Flagbearer

  • Moderators
  • 6,494 posts
  • Coat of arms
  • Silver Colonel

Posted 01 January 2019 - 09:31 PM

========================
Draw Refusal Evidence Required for a STRONG Case:


3.4.1 What you should have in your screenshots to make a STRONG case:
  • The time from your computer visible in all screenshots.
  • The graveyards of both players visible in all screenshots.
  • Two screenshots of your opponent rejecting two tie requests 10 minutes apart. These screenshots should ideally show all pieces on the board and no progress in the game during that time.
  • Any relevant chat dialogue, particularly by your opponent.
  • Little or no use of your own buffer shown in the screenshots.
  • The defeat details screen is very important. The MT will not uphold your claim of draw refusal without it or other evidence that you have lost the game.
  • There should be no progress in the game between final tie refusal and the defeat details screen.
========================

Full Draw Refusal Rules Below:




3.0 Cases of Draw Refusal (and Other Unsportsmanlike Behavior):

3.1.1 Fair Decisions and Punishments: The number one goal of the MT in regards to draw refusals is to provide fair decisions to victims and fair punishments to violators. As draw refusals are one of the worst offenses of unsportsmanlike behavior on the site, the punishments listed below will be harsh, though we feel fair. We hope that the tough penalties and all the publicly viewable cases (here: http://forum.strateg...sals-here-2016/) will help to educate the community as to the nature of draw situations, and to contribute in reducing their abuse.

3.1.2 Types of Draw Refusal: There are two types of inappropriate draw refusals. The first is a clear draw and occurs when neither player can win the game. One example of this is a miner-less game with protected flags for both players where, in the absence of a gross mistake, neither player can capture his opponent's highest piece. A player with more pieces may try to confuse his opponent by shuffling his pieces, or he may try to lotto them in an attempt to see if a flag is unprotected, but if he fails in these things it is considered unsportsmanlike to continue this type of game and hope his opponent will eventually quit. Any player who denies two tie requests ten minutes apart in this situation (see Article 3.4.2 on "Ten Minutes") is subject to the penalties listed at Article 3.2 below.

The second type of draw refusal is a no-progress draw and occurs in a game in which one or both sides have the potential to win but no improvement is being made by either side. If one player requests a tie, at any time in the game, and is refused, then it is the responsibility of the player who refused the tie to take the offensive and to try to advance the game toward a resolution. If he does this, then the draw situation is deemed over. If he does not, and also does not accept a second tie request ten minutes after the first one (see Article 3.4.2 on "Ten Minutes"), he will be subject to the penalties listed at Article 3.2 below.

3.1.3 Progress/Advancing the Game: As stated above, the burden to advance the game falls on the player refusing the draw after a tie request is made. An attack will often be evidence of this, but not always. For example, lottoing a low-level piece or two in an endgame situation may not be viewed as advancement. On the other hand, not attacking is usually evidence of non-advancement, but again not always. The player steadily pushing a multiple piece army to his opponent's side of the board may still be seen as advancing the game even without yet attacking. In summary, the MT expects to see the player who refuses a draw request to exhibit solid progress after refusing the tie request.

3.1.4 The Basic Draw Rule: It does not matter if either player has better units or more units (i.e., superior material), no one "deserves to win" if he cannot capture the flag or all of his opponent's pieces.



3.2 Penalty Schedule for Draw Refusals:

Note: Quick Arena (QA) games will be accepted for review as long as the evidence for the draw refusal meets the same criteria as that of a regular game. (see Article 3.4.1 "What you should have in your screenshots" below.)

First Offense – A 100 point rating deduction and a written warning emailed from the admins. QA penalty: one week ban.

Second Offense – An account reset down to 100 ELO and a second written warning emailed from the admins. QA penalty: one month ban.

Third Offense – A permanent ban, a public forum announcement, and an emailed notice from the admins for both regular and QA venues (must comply with 1.8 Permanent Bans).

Optional One-Time Reminder Letter – In a permanent ban case in this section should the Moderator Team not have the votes needed to permanently ban a player, but does have enough for a normal conviction level (see Article 1.7), the MT may choose to issue either a reminder letter to the guilty party, or a repeat of the 2nd offense. If chosen, the optional reminder letter may only be issued one time per player for an offense in this section. On top of this, it may also be issued similarly one time for the same player or forum member for an offense under Articles 2, 4, and 5. No points will be restored to a player bringing a case if this reminder letter is issued to his opponent. (see also Article 3.5)



3.3 Where to report your complaint of a draw refusal: http://forum.strateg...sals-here-2016/
The Moderator Team will acknowledge your case in, and render decisions in, the above topic.

3.4.1 What you should have in your screenshots to make a STRONG case:
  • The time from your computer visible in all screenshots.
  • The graveyards of both players visible in all screenshots.
  • Two screenshots of your opponent rejecting two tie requests 10 minutes apart. These screenshots should ideally show all pieces on the board and no progress in the game during that time.
  • Any relevant chat dialogue, particularly by your opponent.
  • Little or no use of your own buffer shown in the screenshots.
  • The defeat details screen is very important. The MT will not uphold your claim of draw refusal without it or other evidence that you have lost the game.
  • There should be no progress in the game between final tie refusal and the defeat details screen.

    We also recommend:
  • For any questions on uploading screenshots, see this helpful link: http://forum.strateg...ad-screenshots/
.
3.4.2 Ten Minutes Is the Gold Standard of Proof: Please note from the above that what will make a strong case for any draw refusal claim is to give us two time-stamped refusal screenshots taken ten minutes apart, showing all pieces on the board, plus a defeat details screen. If no progress is made between any of these three screens, the MT will always view this evidence as solid proof of the guilt of the draw refuser. Anything less and we may concur with a claim, or we may not.

In accepting less than ten minutes of evidence, the factors that we consider will include: the nature of the draw situation, the actions of the draw refuser after a tie refusal, and the experience level of the players involved. But nothing is guaranteed in this area. If you want to be absolutely certain the MT will uphold your case, give us ten minutes of no-progress proof and a defeat screen.

3.4.3 System Tie Requests: The tie refusal screens mentioned to this point are system tie requests. You have three of them to offer by pressing the tie request button on your screen. It is a good habit to always take a screenshot when you have a tie offer refused. To meet the requirement of two system tie refusal screens for a strong case above, you may use any combination of the screenshots of your 1st, 2nd, or 3rd tie refusals by your opponent. Just make sure there is no progress in the game for ten minutes in the screens that you show us. You may, of course, show us all three tie refusals.

Also, please note that a grayed-out tie request button can indeed mean that all three of your system tie requests have been used up, but it does not necessarily mean this when certain message boxes are showing, such as a tie refusal notification box or the defeat/victory details screen. In addition, although clearly of interest, a grayed-out button does not in itself show the time information necessary to prove your case, so don't rely too heavily upon it as evidence.

3.4.4 Tie Requests Made in Chat: Requests for a tie that are made in a game chat can be substituted for a valid system tie request if necessary, but will always be a poorer form of evidence. For one, your opponent may not understand you. For two, unless your opponent definitively replies to your tie request in the chat, a mere request by you is no clear proof of his intent. It is always recommended, therefore, that these types of chat offers contain the opponent's response and that they be used in combination with other evidence.

3.4.5 No Changes in Proof: Keep in mind that any changes in the situation of your game during the evidentiary period, even to the loss of a single piece, may invalidate all of your proof. Further, if you change your mind and try to win the game after beginning the draw process, that is your right, but you will risk the potential draw that you sought. After progress has been made on the board you may no longer go back and claim a draw refusal from earlier in the game.

3.4.6 Defeat is Required: Should the game you are claiming a draw refusal on end in either a tie or a win, the MT will not hear your case.

3.4.7 Buffer Run Outs: If a player seeking a draw captures all the necessary screenshots for proving his case, but then runs out his buffer, the MT may still consider his case for draw refusal if the evidence is submitted to us. Please make a claim to us if this happens to you.

3.4.8 Surrendering the game: After you have collected screenshots of at least two tie refusals ten minutes apart (see Article 3.4.2 on "Ten Minutes" above), you can safely surrender the game. Remember to next take a screenshot of the “defeat details screen". (This is the one that tells how long your game lasted, how many moves were made, etc.) If you provide this evidence of tie refusals, and that you have surrendered, and if we agree your opponent is in violation of our rules, the MT will take away 13 points (which is the difference between a draw and either a loss or win) from your opponent's rating and restore it to yours. Also, your opponent will be subject to a further point deduction penalty or permanent banning. (see Article 3.2 above) Unfortunately, we cannot fix any player's win/loss records at this time.

3.5 Guilt Must Be Proven/No Courtesy ELO Restorations: The Moderator Team will require enough evidence to establish the guilt of the draw refuser in order to uphold a draw refusal case. In the past the MT has given 13 points as a one-time courtesy restoration when the bad sportsmanship of a draw refusing opponent was not concretely proven and no draw refusal penalty points were deducted. However, we now feel that giving points to a victim but not simultaneously punishing a draw refuser ultimately helps no one. The victim is rewarded too easily and the guilty party is not given a fair and just penalty to inform him of his bad behavior. Both will be unenlightened and likely to repeat the same event again. So if the MT agrees with a draw refusal claim, one person will be vindicated and one person will be punished. We will no longer offer a one-time courtesy to players whose proof falls short of convincing us of the guilt of their opponent.

3.6 Other Unsportsmanlike Behavior: For any egregious unsportsmanlike behavior not covered in Articles 2, 3, or 4, or excluded by Article 8, the Moderator Team will look at the claims. Sufficient evidence to establish the guilt of the defendant may require video proof. Actions by the MT may include anything from points restorations/deductions to permanent bannings. All cases will be judged separately.


Remember that all accusations require proof. If you have opened a complaint without the necessary evidence the only action the MT will take is to hide your post.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

i77rs4m.jpg

The complete GS&F Rules can be found here: http://forum.strateg...rum-rules-2016/

Draw Refusal Rules, specifically, can be read here: http://forum.strateg...931#entry468931


#3 rgillis783

rgillis783

    Lieutenant

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 747 posts
  • Coat of arms
  • Gold Sergeant

Posted 02 January 2019 - 09:21 PM

INFERNO 666 not sure if this meet MT requirements as stated last year, not the best with details on all rules. The second screen shot was first request at 2:28pm . The first screen shot was sec request at 2:43pm.The third screen shot was  third and final DRAW request that my opponent stated they would take-- just to decline ! Final screen shot was defeat screen my buffer was burnt do to screen shots and chat with INFERNO 666 please see that -they continued to try and chat for some reason.

 

https://imgur.com/a/gpNTR80



#4 Napoleon 2ème

Napoleon 2ème

    Lieutenant

  • Moderators
  • 635 posts
  • Coat of arms
  • Platinum Marshal

Posted 03 January 2019 - 01:53 PM

I Don't know how to write his name because it's in greek, but here are the screenshots :

 

https://imgur.com/a/594korX

 

P.s. By mistake, there is 2 time the same pic


I never lose, I win or I learn…

#5 Powderkeg

Powderkeg

    Bomb

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 51 posts
  • Coat of arms
  • Silver Colonel

Posted 04 January 2019 - 06:18 AM

Posted 3 days ago

Powderkeg, on 30 Dec 2018 - 8:59 PM, said:snapback.png

Asking for case to be opened against TOVE for repeat offender of draw refusal and abusive behavior.  
 
https://imgur.com/a/rGrsw7r

.
The link I've quoted above does not work. The second link in your post does. We will open a case on that one. 

 



#6 Yellowhat

Yellowhat

    Lieutenant

  • Honorary members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 674 posts
  • Coat of arms
  • Gold Miner

Posted 05 January 2019 - 06:51 PM

I Don't know how to write his name because it's in greek, but here are the screenshots :

 

https://imgur.com/a/594korX

 

P.s. By mistake, there is 2 time the same pic

 

A case has been opened.


Yellowhat is the literal translation of my surname.

#7 Yellowhat

Yellowhat

    Lieutenant

  • Honorary members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 674 posts
  • Coat of arms
  • Gold Miner

Posted 05 January 2019 - 08:06 PM

INFERNO 666 not sure if this meet MT requirements as stated last year, not the best with details on all rules. The second screen shot was first request at 2:28pm . The first screen shot was sec request at 2:43pm.The third screen shot was  third and final DRAW request that my opponent stated they would take-- just to decline ! Final screen shot was defeat screen my buffer was burnt do to screen shots and chat with INFERNO 666 please see that -they continued to try and chat for some reason.

 

https://imgur.com/a/gpNTR80

 

Forgot this one, a case has been opened.


Yellowhat is the literal translation of my surname.

#8 Losermaker

Losermaker

    Major

  • Moderators
  • 1,015 posts
  • Coat of arms
  • Platinum Marshal

Posted 07 January 2019 - 12:02 AM

 

Posted 3 days ago

Powderkeg, on 30 Dec 2018 - 8:59 PM, said:snapback.png

.
The link I've quoted above does not work. The second link in your post does. We will open a case on that one. 

 

Hi Powderkeg,

This one slipped under the radar a bit sorry because we requested to PB Tove. I will put in a request to also get you 13 points restored.



#9 Nortrom

Nortrom

    General

  • WC Online Team
  • 2,801 posts
  • Coat of arms
  • Platinum Marshal

Posted 07 January 2019 - 03:27 PM

INFERNO 666 not sure if this meet MT requirements as stated last year, not the best with details on all rules. The second screen shot was first request at 2:28pm . The first screen shot was sec request at 2:43pm.The third screen shot was  third and final DRAW request that my opponent stated they would take-- just to decline ! Final screen shot was defeat screen my buffer was burnt do to screen shots and chat with INFERNO 666 please see that -they continued to try and chat for some reason.

 

https://imgur.com/a/gpNTR80

This player is found guilty of draw refusal. Since this is his second time, he will have his account reset to 100 ELO.

 

The plaintiff will also receive +13


  • rgillis783 likes this

"Rock is overpowered, paper is fine" - scissors

See this thread for live gaming updates

See this thread my blog posts

 

eOMDNAj.png


#10 Nortrom

Nortrom

    General

  • WC Online Team
  • 2,801 posts
  • Coat of arms
  • Platinum Marshal

Posted 07 January 2019 - 03:30 PM

I Don't know how to write his name because it's in greek, but here are the screenshots :

 

https://imgur.com/a/594korX

 

P.s. By mistake, there is 2 time the same pic

The MT agrees and will issue +13 / -113 to the plaintiff and culprit

 

Note that this case was poorly presented due to lack of timestamps among several screenshots - luckily, just about enough, were.


"Rock is overpowered, paper is fine" - scissors

See this thread for live gaming updates

See this thread my blog posts

 

eOMDNAj.png


#11 Napoleon 2ème

Napoleon 2ème

    Lieutenant

  • Moderators
  • 635 posts
  • Coat of arms
  • Platinum Marshal

Posted 07 January 2019 - 05:00 PM

The MT agrees and will issue +13 / -113 to the plaintiff and culprit

 

Note that this case was poorly presented due to lack of timestamps among several screenshots - luckily, just about enough, were.

Yes, I have some problems with my PC and screenshots, so I had to take pictured from my mobile phone, this won't happen agains, thanks for giving me the right tough


I never lose, I win or I learn…

#12 GaryLShelton

GaryLShelton

    Flagbearer

  • Moderators
  • 6,494 posts
  • Coat of arms
  • Silver Colonel

Posted 12 January 2019 - 08:00 PM

The admins have been absent 3 weeks. We are waiting on everything at this point.

i77rs4m.jpg

The complete GS&F Rules can be found here: http://forum.strateg...rum-rules-2016/

Draw Refusal Rules, specifically, can be read here: http://forum.strateg...931#entry468931


#13 garlick

garlick

    Bomb

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 45 posts
  • Coat of arms
  • Platinum Lieutenant

Posted 14 January 2019 - 11:57 PM

The admins have been absent 3 weeks. We are waiting on everything at this point.

 

Hi I did recover my points for my case against cdebarros, but not for my case against Piet Jacob... Could you do something about that please. Thanks

 

"Posted 2 weeks ago

garlick, on 23 Dec 2018 - 11:04 PM, said:snapback.png

Hi,
 
Would like to report PIET JACOB for draw refusal : https://imgur.com/a/R9GTGr6
 
Thanks

.
Pending admin action player Piet Jacob will have 113 points deducted from his account and he will be sent a 1st degree warning letter for refusing a valid draw against garlick. "


#14 GaryLShelton

GaryLShelton

    Flagbearer

  • Moderators
  • 6,494 posts
  • Coat of arms
  • Silver Colonel

Posted 15 January 2019 - 05:18 AM

Hi I did recover my points for my case against cdebarros, but not for my case against Piet Jacob... Could you do something about that please. Thanks

.
We will inquire with admins about this matter. I can confirm that the decision seems fulfilled as desired, with nothing apparently amiss. So I don't know if anything will happen here. Complicating matters is that we've had a change in our admin helper recently and so that makes things more difficult, as your decision was supposedly performed by the old admin. Therefore, the new guy may not know anything about it. But we will inquire, as I said.

i77rs4m.jpg

The complete GS&F Rules can be found here: http://forum.strateg...rum-rules-2016/

Draw Refusal Rules, specifically, can be read here: http://forum.strateg...931#entry468931


#15 LeChuck

LeChuck

    Spy

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 11 posts
  • Coat of arms
  • Gold Sergeant

Posted 16 January 2019 - 09:02 PM

Hello everyone.

 

This is my first post and I'm sorry for my english. I would like to report a drawrefusal against LosersDie.

I had some problems while trying do do the screenshots and got deconnect once, and so I couldn't see the graveyard...(is that normal?)

 

I was dawn to only one movable piece, my Marsh, he had his, and some others, nether one of us had miner. Both flags were protected.

 

I first propose to tie, wich he refuse and after a while doinig nothing, sacrifice a piece to my Marsh.

 

Do the 10 min rule start over after this?

 

First time I upload links as well, not sure if I'm doning everything alright.

 

https://cdn.pbrd.co/images/HWKRnJ4.jpg

https://cdn.pbrd.co/images/HWLcuCH.png

https://cdn.pbrd.co/images/HWLiX2x.png

https://cdn.pbrd.co/images/HWLfGpp.png

https://cdn.pbrd.co/images/HWLdbA8.png

https://cdn.pbrd.co/images/HWL93WN.png

https://cdn.pbrd.co/images/HWL9peu.png

https://cdn.pbrd.co/images/HWL9Ds2.png

 

I know I do not have a strong case because of my poor screnshots but the guy keep chasing my Marsh with his around the lake for 15min and woudn't accetpt a draw.

 

Thank you. 


Edited by LeChuck, 16 January 2019 - 10:00 PM.


#16 Nortrom

Nortrom

    General

  • WC Online Team
  • 2,801 posts
  • Coat of arms
  • Platinum Marshal

Posted 16 January 2019 - 09:24 PM

The screenshots 2 through 8 all seem to be the same file. Will open a case after you confirm all evidence has been uploaded.


"Rock is overpowered, paper is fine" - scissors

See this thread for live gaming updates

See this thread my blog posts

 

eOMDNAj.png


#17 GaryLShelton

GaryLShelton

    Flagbearer

  • Moderators
  • 6,494 posts
  • Coat of arms
  • Silver Colonel

Posted 16 January 2019 - 10:14 PM

Hello everyone.
 
This is my first post and I'm sorry for my english. I would like to report a drawrefusal against LosersDie.

.
Welcome to the forum, LeChuck. 😊

The short answer for proof is to say see the link below for the rules on draw refusal and evidence required.
http://forum.strateg...604#entry339604

To recap the above for a "no-progress" draw refusal, basically and ideally, you need two draw refusals 10 minutes apart that show no progress was made by your opponent in between them. Plus, you need the defeat screen showing you quit the game. That's it. Three screens and you're done.

Should a piece be lost by either side during the ten minutes of evidence phase, it is indeed possible your case could be reset at the point of the lost piece(s). However, it's not likely we'll get fooled by the technique of losing a single unimportant piece in 10 minutes, though if we do allow it one time, we'll definitely convict if excellent progress does not follow in the next 10 minutes. Progress by your opponent does need to be real.

Also, not to forget them, but in the case of what are called "clear draws", such as what your game appears to be (since neither player can win), we will convict upon only 5 minutes of proof in those cases.

We frame the evidence requirements for any draw refusal in terms of what will make a STRONG case. Less can persuade at times but if you want to be safe, give us the full five or ten minutes of evidence time for your type of case.

Hope that helps....🙂

i77rs4m.jpg

The complete GS&F Rules can be found here: http://forum.strateg...rum-rules-2016/

Draw Refusal Rules, specifically, can be read here: http://forum.strateg...931#entry468931


#18 LeChuck

LeChuck

    Spy

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 11 posts
  • Coat of arms
  • Gold Sergeant

Posted 17 January 2019 - 08:51 AM

The links seem to be working now, don't know what happened.

 

Thanks for the recap GaryLShelton. I'll make sure to do better next time.

 

But, as I was saying, after I reconnect to the game, all the graveyard were gray, like at the beginin of the game, is that a normal bug?

 

Becasue of that, on my first screen shot, you can't really see anything... And at the end of the game, I hade only capture 2 pieces, and zero for his.



#19 Nortrom

Nortrom

    General

  • WC Online Team
  • 2,801 posts
  • Coat of arms
  • Platinum Marshal

Posted 17 January 2019 - 10:05 AM

The links seem to be working now, don't know what happened.

 

Thanks for the recap GaryLShelton. I'll make sure to do better next time.

 

But, as I was saying, after I reconnect to the game, all the graveyard were gray, like at the beginin of the game, is that a normal bug?

 

Becasue of that, on my first screen shot, you can't really see anything... And at the end of the game, I hade only capture 2 pieces, and zero for his.

Given that the screenshots appear to be fixed, we'll open a case.

 

Yes, if you disconnect, the graveyard, unfortunately,  gets reset.

 

 

 

EDIT: For future cases, try to include a time stamp in every screenshot, makes it easier for us to see (lack of) progress and also reduces the chance of a case being turned down due to lack of timestamps.


"Rock is overpowered, paper is fine" - scissors

See this thread for live gaming updates

See this thread my blog posts

 

eOMDNAj.png


#20 GaryLShelton

GaryLShelton

    Flagbearer

  • Moderators
  • 6,494 posts
  • Coat of arms
  • Silver Colonel

Posted 17 January 2019 - 03:58 PM

Hi I did recover my points for my case against cdebarros, but not for my case against Piet Jacob... Could you do something about that please. Thanks

.
Please check again. We've been informed you should now see the points. 😊

i77rs4m.jpg

The complete GS&F Rules can be found here: http://forum.strateg...rum-rules-2016/

Draw Refusal Rules, specifically, can be read here: http://forum.strateg...931#entry468931





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users