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#81 Don_Homer

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 06:15 PM

Yes I read what you wrote and you can not proove it camron!


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#82 Fks

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 06:21 PM

Yes I read what you wrote and you can not proove it camron!

Stratego popularity for the amount of boards sold is a staggering proof. Stratego is not even a search option on Twitch which is the main platform for gaming streams... We aren't streaming any tournaments how is it expected to bring veiwers in and boost popularity for the game? You search up Stratego World champion and John vandoros doesn't come up.. BOARD games that are better televised have this. Chess is pulling hundreds of players to  random tournaments yet the World championship which has no rating cap only pulled 56? Live play will not be hurt by online game mechanics since surely there are more then 56 players who are statsified with stratego.com.


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#83 Nortrom

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 06:26 PM

Instead of whining about those who do not, given the current circumstances, want their games published, focus on those who do want it.


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#84 Napoleon 2ème

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 06:27 PM

I do not see where Tilor and Oracle made their posts to claim 2.5. That certainly wasn't an option officially. They should either be placed in #2 or #3. Probably #2 because they are a solid 2 but not a solid 3.

Major Nelson hasn't voted in this topic but did within the MT. Unless he's changed his mind he was a clear #1 there.

To restate my opinion, I really don't get the big deal over asking and then waiting for permission to be given. One person said not everyone is on BattleChat so expecting a reply was too much and he voted #2. But why is expecting an answer too much of a requirement? If you don't get it, you can still video, just don't upload. And then you can upload the next game where you DO get it. And if not that game, then the next. Do video-ers play so few games that they must publish every game they record? How does a small inconvenience to the video-er trump the opponent's right not to be published?

Hi Gary

 

I will update Major Nelson's point of view.

About the 2 players for option 2.5, I guess it's better to let their opinion ther unless they Don't say specifically if they are more for option 2 or 3.

 

To answer your comment about players who record, beeing one of them, I would say that I play many games, but not all of them are nice to see, maybe there is one with a marvelous come back from my side or from the opponent, or a Victory against a great player ect… but this is Something that doesn't happen at every single game and that's why I Don't understand why I should hope for an answer coming from my opponent, a nice come back could be nice to be shared, even if in the end, I lose, because you can really learn and improve and other who Watch will aswell.

 

Why someone doesn't want a video not to be published? Because they lost? Because they want to keep their setups secrets? Because they Don't want players to analyse their style…? Whatever is the Reason, I want to underline that without seeing the setup of the opponent and what he had in mind when he moved a specific piece, it is pretty hard to analyse a style from someone. It is much more easier to analyse the style of the record as he probably add his thoughts or at least, you see what he moves and can immagine what he is thinking…

 

Probably this discussion/debate will keep going for ages… but I guess my points of view is valid… (?)


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#85 Napoleon 2ème

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 06:31 PM

To clairfy, I am for letting your opponent know you are recording and that should be enough to publish. 

Stratego has been hurt too much by people not uploading videos. Top players need to get it out of there head that people can learn from there setups and style. People should learn from your setups & style, you have to constantly be changing to stay on top.

 

At live tournaments there should be a stream of both sides of the board with a expert commentator. I would have loved to watch the team cup and invitational top 32 and would've paid to watch as well. Stratego has a chance of building up once you start doing this.

 

The only thing this causes is to make players use many different styles instead of sticking in to there comfort zone, striving for everyone to be better.

 

I fully agree with this, have some commentaries would be amazing, that's why it would be, in my opinion, a great update to add the spectator point of view. In some games I know, there is it but if the players don't want someone to watch , he can kick him from his game, which is pretty fair. 

 

The best would be to spectate the whole game and be able to comment, I 'm fully convinced that this would bring many new players


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#86 Don_Homer

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 06:37 PM

Stratego popularity for the amount of boards sold is a staggering proof. Stratego is not even a search option on Twitch which is the main platform for gaming streams... We aren't streaming any tournaments how is it expected to bring veiwers in and boost popularity for the game? You search up Stratego World champion and John vandoros doesn't come up.. BOARD games that are better televised have this. Chess is pulling hundreds of players to  random tournaments yet the World championship which has no rating cap only pulled 56? Live play will not be hurt by online game mechanics since surely there are more then 56 players who are statsified with stratego.com.

Well you have some points here where I agree with you. I also would like Stratego to be far more popular than it is. Thats why I posted about the things that need to be improved. Focus on this instead of a few video's more or less. Look for example at the views of the average stratego video. Unfortunately the views are low.

 

At Chess and Draughts I saw games are being played live on a board btw. At the last WC Draughts there was a seperate venue where spectators could see the game (without being able to disturb the players). There have been talks in the past to do this with stratego (its a little bit more complicated to make this happen). Also 2 topplayers have to agree to let their game be viewed. This might bring some attention to the game. Nevertheless most important is that we have a better play environment.


Edited by Don_Homer, 14 January 2019 - 06:43 PM.

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#87 Napoleon 2ème

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 06:40 PM

Well you have some points here where I agree with you. I also would like Stratego to be far more popular than it is. Thats why I posted about the things that need to be improved. Focus on this instead of a few video's more or less. Look for example at the views of the average stratego video. Unfortunately the views are low.

Views are law probably because there aren't many possible alternative of videos I think :

 

If there are 2 players who record, you cna have 2 different style, setups, ect…

 

If you have 100 players who record, it is probably easier to find a player with a style you prefer and start being interested in


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#88 Don_Homer

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 06:47 PM

Views are law probably because there aren't many possible alternative of videos I think :

 

If there are 2 players who record, you cna have 2 different style, setups, ect…

 

If you have 100 players who record, it is probably easier to find a player with a style you prefer and start being interested in

 

There have been video's of topplayers Hielco, Overlord, Playa1. Still low views. Do you think people are waiting for Napo vs Don Homer? I dont think so, with all respect for both :P.


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#89 Napoleon 2ème

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 08:05 PM

There have been video's of topplayers Hielco, Overlord, Playa1. Still low views. Do you think people are waiting for Napo vs Don Homer? I dont think so, with all respect for both :P.

Maybe they can see a new kind of style… but we aren't the most expected for sure. But it can be interesting for sure to see you defeating Nortrom or me beating OVERLORD or?


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#90 tobermoryx

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 08:15 PM

 How does a small inconvenience to the video-er trump the opponent's right not to be published?

 

The point a lot of people have is there should be no 'right not to be published'.


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#91 GaryLShelton

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 08:24 PM

Yes, tobermoryx, and that's probably the crux of the matter in a nutshell. But no matter what anyone feels about this matter, the requirement I would put on video-ers is merely to ask and receive, in the BattleChat, permission to post videos. This is not more than a few seconds of burden placed on anyone videoing. That people object to this simple step totally eludes me.

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#92 TemplateRex

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 09:30 PM

Yes, tobermoryx, and that's probably the crux of the matter in a nutshell. But no matter what anyone feels about this matter, the requirement I would put on video-ers is merely to ask and receive, in the BattleChat, permission to post videos. This is not more than a few seconds of burden placed on anyone videoing. That people object to this simple step totally eludes me.

 

What eludes me is why people think they have a right to censor a battle in a public arena. If you don't want to expose your setup, you can resign. 


I hereby grant explicit permission to all my opponents to record and publish my games as they see fit.


#93 Nortrom

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 09:37 PM

Not sure how a one on one match is can be seen as "public arena".


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#94 UnladenSwallow

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 09:38 PM

Think how silly this would sound if it applies to other sports:

 

-You don't have permission to watch Manchester United's football matches.

-You can't watch a master tactician like Carlsen or Kasparov play Chess

-You can't watch world class athletes in running


Edited by UnladenSwallow, 14 January 2019 - 09:38 PM.

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#95 Napoleon 2ème

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 09:43 PM

And to support TemplateRex, it is a public game, this means that everyone should be able to do what he wants which is allowed, I would add that youtube is separated from stratego so what someone does on youtube shouldn't be accepted or not by the MT... 

 

P.S. My message seems a bit aggressive but it's not my intention at all, but I don't know how to explain it...


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#96 TemplateRex

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 09:48 PM

Not sure how a one on one match is can be seen as "public arena".

 

You play on a publicly accessible website. 

 

The default should be that if you want to keep your game secret, you should mutually agree upon this. Not the other way around. If you come here and play a ranked game or a tournament game, there should be no expectation of privacy. I can live with a delay for the duration of the tournament, but that's it. If you win by a large margin, or resign early, you can keep part of your setup private, but there should be absolutely zero restrictions on broadcasting, analyzing or other forms of content about games.


I hereby grant explicit permission to all my opponents to record and publish my games as they see fit.


#97 Nortrom

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 09:48 PM

Think how silly this would sound if it applies to other sports:

 

-You don't have permission to watch Manchester United's football matches.

-You can't watch a master tactician like Carlsen or Kasparov play Chess

-You can't watch world class athletes in running

Get me my million dollar contract and you can watch all you like.


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#98 TemplateRex

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 09:52 PM

Get me my million dollar contract and you can watch all you like.

 

Poker players have million dollar contracts, and they produce plain content for free, and highly detailed lessons for a subscription. 

Make such educational videos or write such a book and I'll pay a reasonable subscription ;) Somewhere in the $10 per month range might be worth it. More if it was excellent. Perhaps there are dozens of others who would pay. 


I hereby grant explicit permission to all my opponents to record and publish my games as they see fit.


#99 GaryLShelton

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 10:23 PM

I wonder if anyone has ever videoed a live game looking over one player's shoulder and seeing only his pieces, and done so without asking the opponent if such were okay?

If "you play on a publicly accessible website" is the measure, then surely, with that feeling, two people coming together to a public venue and playing a live game would be fair videoing fodder as well?
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#100 Napoleon 1er

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 10:52 PM

I guess that a very simple, polite, respectful, fair and transparent rule could be for who wants to make and publish a video to announce it to his opponent during setup phase. Something like: "Hey man I'm officially informing you that I'm going to record our game and may decide to publish it on youtube. If you don't want your secret setup or your tactics to be disclosed on youtube then please refrain from using secret setup or tactics during this game."

 

... and for those who like to make money with their videos, know that on youtube you can register to advertising services who will pay you 1 USD for each 10000 views of the video. A simple rule could be that upon request from the opponent a videomaker shall share his profit 50/50 with his opponent! :)  :)  :)


Edited by Napoleon 1er, 14 January 2019 - 10:53 PM.

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