Jump to content


Photo

MT Announcement - New Disconnecters and Abusive Time Wasters Enforcement


  • Please log in to reply
24 replies to this topic

#1 GaryLShelton

GaryLShelton

    Flagbearer

  • Moderators
  • 6,268 posts
  • Coat of arms
  • Gold Spy

Posted 21 August 2018 - 03:13 AM

NEW DISCONNECTERS AND ABUSIVE TIME WASTERS ENFORCEMENT

 

 

SHORT VERSION


The MT is going to begin a 3 month trial to enforce penalties against disconnecters and time abusers. It will begin August 20th and end November 20th.

 

  • Cases of intentional disconnect: bring us the disconnection message window with the white writing at the bottom, PLUS a victory screen. Your opponent will be penalized 50 points (QA penalty: one-week ban).  NOTE: VICTORY SCREEN REQUIRED.
  • Cases of 15 second abuse: you must endure this for 90% of the moves for 5 straight minutes. If you can prove this has happened to you with video or VERY GOOD screenshot evidence, and we agree with you, we'll award you win points and your opponent loss points for the game. In addition, your opponent will also have 50 points deducted and he will be banned for one week. BattleChat evidence required. Defeat screen required for points award. 
  • Cases of buffer abuse: your opponent must run at least 2 minutes off his buffer out of spite. You must prove the spite. BattleChat evidence required. Your opponent will be punished 50 points and be banned for one week.

For further details, see the Long Version below.

 


The MT

 

GaryLShelton, Major Nelson, MTinsley, and Nortrom


  • OVERLORD, steelers and Major Nelson like this

i77rs4m.jpg

The complete GS&F Rules can be found here: http://forum.strateg...rum-rules-2016/

Draw Refusal Rules, specifically, can be read here: http://forum.strateg...931#entry468931


#2 GaryLShelton

GaryLShelton

    Flagbearer

  • Moderators
  • 6,268 posts
  • Coat of arms
  • Gold Spy

Posted 21 August 2018 - 03:14 AM

LONG VERSION

 

----

The MT has decided to conduct a trial enforcement against both intentional disconnecters and abusive time wasters. The two issues will be judged separately but we recognize they are often closely related. This trial will last from August 20th to November 20th of this year, when both matters will be assessed for permanent rule status.

 

 

Definitions:

Intentional disconnecting is when a player leaves the game on purpose without pressing the flag (or surrender button in new app).

 

The white writing is the white text that appears at the bottom of the screen in the desktop version that tells what move just took place and the result, for example, "XYZ's Marshal failed to capture ABC's bomb."

Abusive Time Wasting occurs when a player purposely delays the game by running most of his remaining buffer down. This delay should be at least 2 minutes.  Keep in mind that the buffer running down may be allowed if the situation arguably requires a lengthy contemplation of a serious move, or if no particular loss has just happened for the opponent. 

 

Abusive Time Wasting also occurs when a player takes 15 seconds to move in 90% of his turns over a 5 minute period. (VIDEO STRONGLY PREFERRED)

 

 

Please note the following:

1) A new thread will be started for reporting all cases of disconnection and abusive time wasting.  Here:  http://forum.strateg...e-wasters-here/   Only claims for offenses that take place after our trial period begins, and reported in the above new thread, will be accepted for judging. 

 

2) The penalty schedule will be:

  • 50 points will be deducted for each case of intentional disconnect, plus a warning letter will be sent from admins. (QA penalty one-week ban.)
  • 50 points will be deducted AND a one-week ban will be issued for each case of abusive time wasting, plus a warning letter will be sent from admins. (QA penalty two-week ban.)
  • ONLY one disconnection and abusive time wasting event per game each will be punished.  But an offender may receive a 100 point penalty and a one-week ban for intentional disconnecting and abusive time wasting committed in the SAME game(QA penalty three-week ban.)   For multiple reports in the same day that involve different games for any player the point penalties will be cumulative and bans consecutive.
  • If a player's account cannot be penalized points in this rule because it is too low, then that account will be lowered to the bottom rating, where the person can play back up from there.

 

3) A  VICTORY SCREEN WILL BE REQUIRED for disconnection complaints to solidly prove that the disconnecter did not return to the game. 

 

4) A victory screen for cases of abusive time wasting involving buffer abuse will NOT be required. You will receive no points but your opponent will receive a 50 point penalty if we uphold your case.

 

5) A defeat screen for cases of abusive time wasting involving the 15 second move timer will be required ONLY if the victim desires points to be awarded. Points will be awarded for a win to the victim and loss to the offender if we uphold the case.  

 

6) The MT will not tolerate any offensive behavior that purposely and repeatedly comes close but fails to cross the threshold of the limits set forth in this article. 
 

-----

 

RULES FOR EVIDENCE ARE BELOW:

NOTE: VIDEO EVIDENCE THAT SATISFIES BELOW CONDITIONS WILL BE ACCEPTED. VIDEO WILL BE PREFERRED IN ALL NEW APP CASES.

 

TO MAKE THE STRONGEST CASE POSSIBLE, DO THE FOLLOWING:

 
 

For Disconnection Claims IN THE WEBSITE VERSION:

 

If the white writing is on the screen, you must provide us

1) a screenshot showing the message box announcing the disconnect with the white writing at the bottom of the screen showing that the disconnecter just lost an important piece, and 

2) graveyards that are clear and visible, plus 

3) A VICTORY SCREEN PROVING YOUR OPPONENT DID NOT RETURN TO THE GAME.

 

If the white writing is NOT on the screen, then you must provide us the same information above, PLUS

1) any game chat that you can show, and  

2) anything else that you feel can help establish the game situation before the disconnect.

 

 

For Disconnection Claims IN THE NEW APP VERSION:

  

If video evidence is available, please make sure you have uninterrupted video of

1) the normal game screen prior to the disconnect.

2) any BattleChat that you can

2) at least one graveyards screen prior, but close, to the disconnect

3) the disconnect message box screen and 

4) a graveyards screen DURING the disconnect (You can press graveyards button at that time.), plus

5) A VICTORY SCREEN PROVING YOUR OPPONENT DID NOT RETURN TO THE GAME.

 

If video is NOT available, you will be at a distinct disadvantage for proof, but we will still look at your screenshot evidence. Show us the same information above as best you can and anything else that you feel can help establish the game situation before the disconnect.   We will do our best to give a fair judgement of your claim.

 

 

DISCLAIMER FOR DISCONNECTION CASES:

Desktop version cases where there is white writing will be the easiest to judge for the MT.  All other cases of intentional disconnection will be far more difficult to judge and this cannot be helped.  Where there is no white writing it will be impossible to accurately assess ALL cases through screenshots, and sometimes even video. But to that end, please provide whatever evidence you can to support your claim. Taking more screenshots with players you feel are likely to disconnect is advised.  If we cannot judge beyond a reasonable doubt, we will not uphold your claim.

 

-----

 

For Abusive Time Wasting THROUGH BUFFER ABUSE:
For buffer abuse, we will need screenshots or video showing that the opponent has purposely delayed the game by running most of his remaining buffer down. This delay should be at least 2 minutes long. Keep in mind that the buffer running down is allowable if 

  • the situation may arguably require a lengthy contemplation of a serious move, or if 
  • no particular loss has just happened for the opponent. 

​Any BattleChat evidence to back up your claim of buffer abuse will be helpful.  We will punish those indicating they wish to stall the game in many cases. A victory screen will NOT be necessary for these type of complaints as the victim will receive no points.

 

 

For Abusive Time Wasting USING 15 SECONDS PER MOVE:

NOTE:  VIDEO EVIDENCE WILL BE STRONGLY PREFERRED.  
With 15 second move timer abuse VIDEO EVIDENCE WILL BE BEST, but we will also look at your screenshot evidence.  Your opponent must use 15 seconds per move for 90% of the moves within a straight five minute period in the game, so this means a lot of screenshots in the case of no video.

 

A defeat screen will be required from the victim IF POINTS ARE DESIRED TO BE AWARDED.  Points will be awarded for a win to the victim and loss to the offender if we uphold the case.  

 

 

 

The MT

 

GaryLShelton, Major Nelson, MTinsley, Nortrom


  • Nortrom, texaspete09, rgillis783 and 3 others like this

i77rs4m.jpg

The complete GS&F Rules can be found here: http://forum.strateg...rum-rules-2016/

Draw Refusal Rules, specifically, can be read here: http://forum.strateg...931#entry468931


#3 KissMyCookie

KissMyCookie

    Major

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,225 posts
  • Coat of arms
  • Gold Spy

Posted 21 August 2018 - 07:43 AM

Thank you GaryLShelton, Nortrom, Maj. Nelson, and Mtinsley...this really should help out many people who love and respect the game Stratego.


  • OVERLORD and ghostshadow0 like this

#4 TheOptician

TheOptician

    Marshal

  • Tournament Manager
  • 3,474 posts
  • Coat of arms
  • Platinum Marshal

Posted 21 August 2018 - 08:15 AM

Why is it important that the effect of the infractions are the same?

The offences are different. If the government said that all criminal offences (from murder to burglary) carry the same sentence, I imagine you would consider that unfair, no matter how much they argued it was consistent.

And there is a key difference between playing a PBd player and being a victim of multiple chasing.

In the first instance you are recognising that one player has the right to avoid having to play someone who shouldn't be on the site anyway.

The points reversal acts as if the match never happened.

In the second instance you are recognising that a multiple chaser has ground the game to a halt - either in a desperate attempt to save their flag from capture, or in an unsavoury demonstration that they are prepared to prolong a circle forever unless their opponent surrenders either a piece or the game.

Here the points adjustment is intended as if the victim won the match (not as if it never happened).

These two verdicts are appropriate to match the offence. You recognise this. So the approach to each instance does not need to the consistent.

You asked why no-one has had the bright idea of suggesting to 'the other should change to match it'. This is because it isn't a bright idea. as no-one deserves a victory for getting matched with a PBd player.

#5 Wogomite

Wogomite

    Captain

  • Honorary members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 882 posts
  • Coat of arms
  • Platinum General

Posted 21 August 2018 - 11:20 AM

Gary, please consider TheOs post. He hit the nail on the head.

For anyone with children, you have heard it said "be consistent". My children are very different and my approach to discipline is different for each one. Where consistency comes in, is not how I discipline but that what I decide, I am consistent with each one. My son should receive the same discipline week after week if he breaks a rule. This is not to say I have to discipline my daughter the same way. Although consistency is important, we need to understand in which manner we need consistency. If you read my post and TheOs post on the matter, it's very clear that the reasons for d/m chasing and pb players SHOULD NOT be consistent. They are two separate children. I do agree however, when the best thing is decided for both individually, consistency is important to follow at that point.

#6 GaryLShelton

GaryLShelton

    Flagbearer

  • Moderators
  • 6,268 posts
  • Coat of arms
  • Gold Spy

Posted 21 August 2018 - 02:01 PM

Love the metaphor. :)

Our family is very unique here in stratego.com, that's true! But don't say you whip the boys and not the girls or the femi-nazis will come for you. :D

i77rs4m.jpg

The complete GS&F Rules can be found here: http://forum.strateg...rum-rules-2016/

Draw Refusal Rules, specifically, can be read here: http://forum.strateg...931#entry468931


#7 Wogomite

Wogomite

    Captain

  • Honorary members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 882 posts
  • Coat of arms
  • Platinum General

Posted 21 August 2018 - 02:19 PM

I'm not referring to physical discipline at all. There are many forms of discipline besides physical. :)

#8 GaryLShelton

GaryLShelton

    Flagbearer

  • Moderators
  • 6,268 posts
  • Coat of arms
  • Gold Spy

Posted 21 August 2018 - 04:19 PM

In the first instance you are recognising that one player has the right to avoid having to play someone who shouldn't be on the site anyway.
For this you are only partially correct, TheO.  We would agree that the PB'd player should not be on the site, and it is unfortunate that such exceptions exist, but we do not recognize the "right to avoid having to play someone...." as a permanent feature.   We acknowledge this for five moves, true, but beyond that it's a regular game.

The points reversal acts as if the match never happened.

Yes, that is true.

In the second instance you are recognising that a multiple chaser has ground the game to a halt - either in a desperate attempt to save their flag from capture, or in an unsavoury demonstration that they are prepared to prolong a circle forever unless their opponent surrenders either a piece or the game.

Here the points adjustment is intended as if the victim won the match (not as if it never happened).

Yes, this is also true. And I agree this is a different reward for the victim compared to our PB restoration policy.  

These two verdicts are appropriate to match the offence. You recognise this. So the approach to each instance does not need to the consistent.
I'm glad you agree the verdicts are appropriate.  And you might have me slowly nodding to your conclusion.  The two punishments do not have to be consistent in what is administered, only how and when.  We have chosen to offer MT intervention in the points we restore/award, respectively, only for a short while after the offenses.  This is the consistent part of our enforcement that I speak of.   We will still punish the d/m chasers, in those cases, if the victim chooses to play on and fails, but he will receive no points.  If he chooses to play on and wins, that is the debate that Losermaker ignited by winning his game against his d/m chaser.  The court is still out on that as other things have been focused on of late but we will return to that case soon.

You asked why no-one has had the bright idea of suggesting to 'the other should change to match it'. This is because it isn't a bright idea. as no-one deserves a victory for getting matched with a PBd player.

 

I'm afraid you've missed my point.  I meant that no one has suggested BOTH infractions be enforced so that no time limits are in place for MT restoration (PB player games) or victory awards (d/m chasing games).  Right now you argue that d/m chasing should be enforced with victim awards made regardless whether they continue the game or not.  But I have argued that if that's your view then the same thing should apply to the PB player games.  That is, that the victim who is paired up with a PB'd player should have restoration up until the end of the game as well, which is currently not the case with the 5 move limit there.  But no one spoke a word when the PB'd player policy was announced.

 

Should the MT restore both with or without time limits is the question I would like to see addressed.

 

And I didn't call it a "bright" idea, by the way.  ;)  

 

 



i77rs4m.jpg

The complete GS&F Rules can be found here: http://forum.strateg...rum-rules-2016/

Draw Refusal Rules, specifically, can be read here: http://forum.strateg...931#entry468931


#9 Wogomite

Wogomite

    Captain

  • Honorary members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 882 posts
  • Coat of arms
  • Platinum General

Posted 21 August 2018 - 04:32 PM

The way pb sits, I believe mt has ruled correctly with 5 moves to quit. Although I can see a player looking in the forums 20 mins into the match and after abuse has started before he realizes he is playing a banned player. This could be considered.

D/M chase is a much different case and should not have a limit at all in a match to claim the win. There are a plethra of good reasons in the past four pages to defend this point of view. :)

#10 TheOptician

TheOptician

    Marshal

  • Tournament Manager
  • 3,474 posts
  • Coat of arms
  • Platinum Marshal

Posted 21 August 2018 - 04:50 PM

I haven't missed your point - I am arguing that you don't need consistency in either the verdict or the 'window'

>>>>Should the MT restore both with or without time limits is the question I would like to see addressed?

This question assumes that the approach has to be consistent. I am arguing that - as the two are different offences, and have different verdicts, then requiring the 'window' to be consistent is not necessary.

Not only is it unnecessary, but it also harms the victim (for the many reasons already given in this thread a number of times).

The arguments against the unlimited window thT have been put forward are:

1. Players should take responsibility for their playing
2. A victim might take advantage by scouting tbeir opponent

I don't believe these are good reasons when compared to the other 4 or 5 put forward (having to take a loss on record, waiting for admin to return points etc etc)

#11 ghostshadow0

ghostshadow0

    Scout

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 78 posts
  • Coat of arms
  • Platinum Spy

Posted 22 August 2018 - 01:38 AM

what video apps on the desktop do you all recommend for recording games that is easy to use for non-techies?  



#12 Losermaker

Losermaker

    Captain

  • Moderators
  • 961 posts
  • Coat of arms
  • Platinum Marshal

Posted 22 August 2018 - 02:58 AM

I use movavi screen capture 8, its pretty easy to use and does nice videos (including optional system or mic audio), but its not free.

 

Thanks for the work guys, looking forward to seeing how this turns out.


Edited by Losermaker, 22 August 2018 - 02:58 AM.


#13 Jesus_saves

Jesus_saves

    Miner

  • German Tournament Manager
  • 151 posts
  • Coat of arms
  • Platinum Marshal

Posted 22 August 2018 - 05:53 AM

Thank you guys, this will help the honest players a lot. Still I suggest to send new people registering an information e-mail explaining the basic ground rules and also explaining the forum. New user registering have no idea of these.

Thank you again.

John

#14 Jesus_saves

Jesus_saves

    Miner

  • German Tournament Manager
  • 151 posts
  • Coat of arms
  • Platinum Marshal

Posted 22 August 2018 - 06:05 AM

What I mean is a type of code of conduct which new players have to agree to before they can open a new account (really with buttons to click at)

In this code of coduct we explain the ethical behaviour we expect using this site
1. Even if we loose we honour the other player in not abusing the time and disconnects
2. Explain the rule of double chasing / multiple chasing (many people dońt even know this)
3. Explain the forum and send them the necessary links to read themselves in
4. Explain the disconnection rules after loosing a big piece

Having a statement by clicking this accept buttion I agree to the basic rules of dc/mc, none time wasting and ethical behaviour.

(If they dońt click the agree button than they should not be able to open a new account anymore.

(And if that is possible send the same / similar information e-mail to all existing users..... to also get them informed.

John
  • GaryLShelton likes this

#15 Jesus_saves

Jesus_saves

    Miner

  • German Tournament Manager
  • 151 posts
  • Coat of arms
  • Platinum Marshal

Posted 23 August 2018 - 06:17 AM

Guys, this is a good new rule. I note which player disconnects in games I play. So yesterday I played a disconnector. I constructively explained him in the communication the new rule, and this time he didńt disconnect (okay, I got his flag) but just explaining them the rules helps in some cases. So this new rule will help for sure in min 70% of the cases of disconnections, Formerly he would have disconnected just before I take his flag.... So well done. Please keep this rule up.

John
  • GaryLShelton likes this

#16 GaryLShelton

GaryLShelton

    Flagbearer

  • Moderators
  • 6,268 posts
  • Coat of arms
  • Gold Spy

Posted 23 August 2018 - 09:17 PM

Thank you guys, this will help the honest players a lot. Still I suggest to send new people registering an information e-mail explaining the basic ground rules and also explaining the forum. New user registering have no idea of these.

Thank you again.

John

 

It would require programming help to have all accounts sign an informational post like the one you suggest before proceeding with their account creation. It would help with the truly new accounts that don't know anything, that's true, so not a bad idea. I also think that merely advertising the Forum more on the game side would help with a lot of these issues.  I've played so many people that when you ask them about the forum, they respond they didn't know one existed, or the like.  

 

If players come here to the forum, they're going to learn.  No way around that.  :)



i77rs4m.jpg

The complete GS&F Rules can be found here: http://forum.strateg...rum-rules-2016/

Draw Refusal Rules, specifically, can be read here: http://forum.strateg...931#entry468931


#17 GaryLShelton

GaryLShelton

    Flagbearer

  • Moderators
  • 6,268 posts
  • Coat of arms
  • Gold Spy

Posted 24 August 2018 - 03:53 AM

We are at a point where we will just have to have a public vote on it, guys. There's been 3-4 of you impassioned about this and making reasoned arguments. For the moment we are in a trial. It will likely continue the way it is for the duration. But after that we could possibly change it. I believe that's October.
  • Wogomite likes this

i77rs4m.jpg

The complete GS&F Rules can be found here: http://forum.strateg...rum-rules-2016/

Draw Refusal Rules, specifically, can be read here: http://forum.strateg...931#entry468931


#18 josephwhite

josephwhite

    Lieutenant

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 716 posts
  • Coat of arms
  • Platinum Marshal

Posted 30 August 2018 - 05:11 PM

Do you communicate offenses to offenders? If so, how is this done - via pm or email? I assume some people give false emails so won't even be notified and will wonder how they lost points.



#19 Nortrom

Nortrom

    General

  • WC Online Team
  • 2,715 posts
  • Coat of arms
  • Platinum Marshal

Posted 30 August 2018 - 05:20 PM

Email yes.

 

If they provide fake mails, that's their loss. Not everyone has a forum account either.


  • GaryLShelton likes this

"Rock is overpowered, paper is fine" - scissors

See this thread for live gaming updates

See this thread my blog posts


#20 GaryLShelton

GaryLShelton

    Flagbearer

  • Moderators
  • 6,268 posts
  • Coat of arms
  • Gold Spy

Posted 28 October 2018 - 12:27 AM

...



i77rs4m.jpg

The complete GS&F Rules can be found here: http://forum.strateg...rum-rules-2016/

Draw Refusal Rules, specifically, can be read here: http://forum.strateg...931#entry468931





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users