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MT Announcement - Double/Multiple Chasing Enforcement


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#1 Nortrom

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Posted 02 July 2018 - 11:29 AM

DOUBLE / MULTIPLE CHASING ANNOUNCEMENT

The MT will conduct a trial period on D/M chasing. This will last from july 2nd, 2018 through october 2nd, 2018. After this period the MT will evaluate the trial. Any feedback is welcome.



From now on double/multiple chasing (D/M chasing) will not be allowed in games anymore. The MT will only look into ranked games or specific requests. Tournament games on this matter will be judged by the organizing party. The MT will, if requested, advise the organizing party.


D/M chasing: To continuously threaten one or more pieces where the opponent keeps evading.

In case you are being D/M chased, take the following into account:

- Video evidence is much preferred over screenshots.
- While annoying and even unsportsmanlike, the MT will not hand out a D/M chasing penalty for occasional illegal moves. The MT will penalize continuous D/M chasing.
- You should inform your opponent at least once that the moves made are illegal.
- The D/M chasing must either be 25 consecutive D/M chasing moves or 5 minutes, whichever comes first and is easier to prove (depending on video vs screenshots)
- The MT will penalize players who try to stay just under the threshold as a means of being as annoying as possible.
- A defeat screen is required. By playing alternating moves (e.g. giving up a piece / position) you waive the right to make a case out of this

Penalty scheme:



1. Lost game (and thus point deduction) + Warning letter
2. Lost game (and thus point deduction) + Warning letter
3. Lost game (and thus point deduction) + 100 point deduction + Warning letter
4. Lost game (and thus point deduction) + 100 point deduction + 1 week game side ban + Warning letter
5. ELO to 100 penalty + 1 month game side ban + Warning letter
6. Permanent ban

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#2 Nortrom

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Posted 02 July 2018 - 11:30 AM

Too long didn't read: Chasing will no longer be tolerated - 5 mins or 25 consecutive moves for evidence are the minimum. ( See post above for more details )


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#3 Wogomite

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Posted 03 July 2018 - 02:28 AM

This may have be been answered somewhere but just for clarity, let's say I lose 10 points after surrendering to a d/m chaser, how many points would be returned to my account? Typically someone will double chase when losing, without d/m chasing the victim would most likely win. Will mt award the lost 10 plus 13 points?

#4 Don_Homer

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Posted 03 July 2018 - 09:07 AM

Does the "chasing to prevent a piece getting trapped elsewhere on the board (allowed by ISF) fall under this new rule?

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#5 Nortrom

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Posted 03 July 2018 - 04:32 PM

This may have be been answered somewhere but just for clarity, let's say I lose 10 points after surrendering to a d/m chaser, how many points would be returned to my account? Typically someone will double chase when losing, without d/m chasing the victim would most likely win. Will mt award the lost 10 plus 13 points?

We've not thought that out well, yet. I imagine the game should count as a victory for the player being chased.

 

Does the "chasing to prevent a piece getting trapped elsewhere on the board (allowed by ISF) fall under this new rule?

Yes.


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#6 Wogomite

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Posted 03 July 2018 - 04:58 PM

Does the "chasing to prevent a piece getting trapped elsewhere on the board (allowed by ISF) fall under this new rule?

Don, can you or someone explain this further and show us the isf rule. Are you referring to counter chasing?

#7 Don_Homer

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Posted 04 July 2018 - 10:06 AM

Don, can you or someone explain this further and show us the isf rule. Are you referring to counter chasing?


Yes, counterchase. Its good to know for all players that this is not allowed anymore in this pilot-phase. I think there is no ISF rule about counter chasing, and this makes it allowed to use it during real life tournaments.

Edited by Don_Homer, 04 July 2018 - 10:07 AM.

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#8 - Sniper -

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Posted 04 July 2018 - 03:44 PM

Was under the assumption counter-chasing to protect piece was allowed and socially acceptable. Good to know it is not.



#9 KissMyCookie

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Posted 04 July 2018 - 04:31 PM

Legitimate question asked by Don_Homer, but it only makes a general comment about chasing (not clear for some of us if you mean, double chase, multiple chase, counter chase)

Does the "chasing to prevent a piece getting trapped elsewhere on the board (allowed by ISF) fall under this new rule?

 

Nortrom responds with a "yes" to this question.

 

Wogomite then wants to know if the question is about counter chasing:

Are you referring to counter chasing?

 

Don_Homer makes clear his question, so it is now fully understandable, but as his original question was not absolutely clear for me (and perhaps others), the following statement may not be fully accurate:

Yes, counterchase. Its good to know for all players that this is not allowed anymore in this pilot-phase.

 

I think you are quite right, @Don_Homer, that there is no ISF rule against "Counter Chasing," thus, I think before we all jump the gun on this one, the MT needs to make clear if there will be any distinction in these scenarios, or if ALL cases of chasing, no matter what, will be able to be challenged here and judged by the MT.


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#10 Nortrom

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Posted 04 July 2018 - 04:52 PM

The MT will look into double / multiple chasing. Counter chasing isn't part of that as it doesn't meet the criteria of 

 

D/M chasing: To continuously attack one or more pieces where the opponent keeps evading. " 

 

continuously here reads as ' each consecutive move ' perhaps the wording on this could be improved later on. Although, the opponent doesn't evade one's attack should the opponent make an attacking move by him/herself, this no continuous chase :).


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#11 KARAISKAKIS

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Posted 04 July 2018 - 05:03 PM

Still confused  :blink:

 

http://youtu.be/fRXpe_JNsLY

 

Which will be the decision of MT in the above example? Is that legal according the new rules?



#12 Henry domerkant

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Posted 04 July 2018 - 05:22 PM

Still confused :blink:

http://youtu.be/fRXpe_JNsLY

Which will be the decision of MT in the above example? Is that legal according the new rules?

Why didnt you move the captain one position forward?
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#13 Nortrom

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Posted 04 July 2018 - 05:35 PM

The example provided in the video consists of 0 illegal moves as far as I can see. 


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#14 Don_Homer

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Posted 06 July 2018 - 12:44 PM

Then you should have had answered my question differently, Nortrom. So apparantly counter chasing is still allowed. Thanks, Kmc.

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#15 The Prof

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Posted 06 July 2018 - 04:27 PM

The MT will look into double / multiple chasing. Counter chasing isn't part of that as it doesn't meet the criteria of 

 

D/M chasing: To continuously attack one or more pieces where the opponent keeps evading. " 

 

continuously here reads as ' each consecutive move ' perhaps the wording on this could be improved later on. Although, the opponent doesn't evade one's attack should the opponent make an attacking move by him/herself, this no continuous chase :).

 

The word "attack" should be changed to "threaten" in the D/M definition.

 

This may have be been answered somewhere but just for clarity, let's say I lose 10 points after surrendering to a d/m chaser, how many points would be returned to my account? Typically someone will double chase when losing, without d/m chasing the victim would most likely win. Will mt award the lost 10 plus 13 points?

 

I don't think points should be awarded for a win if a player being chased surrenders, unless the game was a clear win for him (e.g. two high pieces chasing two miners).  Wins should be earned, not awarded by the MT whenever someone is being chased at any point in a game.  It will also help players unfamiliar with the rule learn faster if the player they are chasing has the incentive to educate them about the rule, rather than just gather the evidence and surrender.  In some cases, this communication will solve the problem right away.  But if the chasing persists then the player being chased has two options: 1) He could sacrifice a piece and continue the game (This makes sense if he still would have the advantage after giving up a piece) or 2) He could request a draw.  In either case, and whatever the result (he might even win the game in the first case) he could still report the chasing and have his opponent penalized.   


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#16 Nortrom

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Posted 06 July 2018 - 04:38 PM

Yes, threaten, indeed, would be better.

 

If a player prevents progress by double / multiple chasing, this making illegal moves, the punishment should be a lost game. We don't need people in a fairly equal position, to start a D/M chase to force a draw or force a piece off the board.

 

The communication thing is taken care of " - You should inform your opponent at least once that the moves made are illegal. " perhaps ' should'  , should ;)  read ' must ' instead.


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#17 The Prof

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Posted 06 July 2018 - 05:18 PM

If a player prevents progress by double / multiple chasing, this making illegal moves, the punishment should be a lost game. We don't need people in a fairly equal position, to start a D/M chase to force a draw or force a piece off the board.

 

I agree.  I said in my last sentence that the chaser should be penalized in these situations.  However, I feel the result of the game should stand for the player being chased, unless it was a clear win for him .  So a screen showing the result of the game is not necessary to punish chasers, only if the player being chased is requesting points on the basis of a clear win.  This will get more games in which chasing occurs settled through chat and on the board rather than having the MT flooded with a lot of cases of players looking for win points.



#18 Wogomite

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Posted 06 July 2018 - 06:10 PM

I don't think without a clear win you should penalize the victim by taking away his chance to win completely by awarding a draw. What did he do wrong? The match should end as a disqualification from the cheater which indeed award his opponent the win. The player being chased has already played a majority of the match, endured a double chase offense, and is forced to upload the evidence all for what...a lousy draw? That would be a pretty lame result of a game that had the potential of a win anyway.
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#19 Wogomite

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Posted 06 July 2018 - 06:17 PM

One more thing, if you award a draw here, Nortrom, hielco, overlord and many others all lose 20 points just for running into a bronze or silver d/m chaser...what kind of justice is that?


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#20 The Prof

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 05:03 AM

One more thing, if you award a draw here, Nortrom, hielco, overlord and many others all lose 20 points just for running into a bronze or silver d/m chaser...what kind of justice is that?

 

I'm pretty sure the players you mentioned would still beat a bronze or silver player even after giving up the lower ranked of their two pieces being chased, and thus ending the d/m chasing.  It's not likely this type of matchup would come down to a close endgame where chasing would force a top ranked player to request a draw.  The victim of the chase could still submit the evidence and the chaser would be penalized and should learn his lesson for future games.  Also, there's a possibility of creating an incentive for a player who knows the rules to purposely put himself in a situation where someone who doesn't know the rules can double chase him.  This would be a cheap way to get a win in my opinion.     






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