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Site Improvement Suggestions (2018)


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#1 GaryLShelton

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Posted 07 October 2018 - 12:37 AM

The following several posts were extracted from another thread where they ran afar off topic in, and so that's why they may read somewhat like a conversation caught in mid stream. The gist of the discussion was about clock improvements.

Any other site improvement ideas are welcome in this topic as well. GLS

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By the way, do you play at about the same level live as you do here, TR? Or are you higher or lower one place or the other, and why do you think that is, if so?
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The complete GS&F Rules can be found here: http://forum.strateg...rum-rules-2016/
Draw Refusal Rules, specifically, can be read here: http://forum.strateg...931#entry468931

#2 TemplateRex

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Posted 07 October 2018 - 12:39 AM

By the way, do you play at about the same level live as you do here, TR?  Or are you higher or lower one place or the other, and why do you think that is, if so?  

 

My live play is way worse than online play. For some reasons, my memory completely self-destructs when looking at live pieces. Online, I also forget pieces, but not nearly as bad as in live games. Perhaps it's an experience thing (~400 games here now, only ~20 or so live).


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#3 Wogomite

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Posted 07 October 2018 - 11:25 PM

The field of vision for live is much larger. It's possible to not move your head at all for online. For live, you must move your head to see your side, your opponents side, the graveyard and the time clock. Not to mention your opponents face if you want to see his reactions. All of this make it MUCH harder to remember information and follow momentum of the match dynamic. Online simply has ALL of this within a fragment of your eyes movement. It makes it much easier to stay focused and fully absorb whats happening with online play.
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#4 Napoleon 1er

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Posted 08 October 2018 - 12:45 PM

What I did also experience in live is that a certain moments and for some players hitting the clock as fast as possible tends to become even more important than the moves on the board. I had to laugh when I was paired with such an opponent for whom it looked the main issue of the game to hit that clock as fast and as strong as possible...
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#5 TemplateRex

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Posted 08 October 2018 - 01:05 PM

What I did also experience in live is that a certain moments and for some players hitting the clock as fast as possible tends to become even more important than the moves on the board. I had to laugh when I was paired with such an opponent for whom it looked the main issue of the game to hit that clock as fast and as strong as possible...

 

The 12'04 time control in live tournaments (the WC was played at 16'04) is much harder than the 5'15 here. You need much quicker thinking and a good setup that allows you to play most moves quickly. For a ~360 move game, you have 12 * 60 / 360 + 4 = 6 seconds per move. You can only spend 15s per move on 2 out of each 11 moves (2/11 * 15 + 9/11 * 4 = 6). So "muscle memory" and "routine" are very important for live play. You are forced to use only 4s per move for 9 out of each 11 moves, otherwise you get into time trouble.

 

For me, 4s per move is just not enough time to register what has happened, such as which piece got revealed or where did some other revealed pieces go. My memory goes totally blank (I forgot a marshall 3 times in my last live tournament). I hopefully remedied the graveyard management by having a systematic storage that allows me to place and check pieces with only my peripheral vision. And hopefully my live memory improves quickly after gaining more live experience. It also used to be much worse online. Maybe I need to practice playing much faster online as well.


Edited by TemplateRex, 08 October 2018 - 01:09 PM.

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#6 Don_Homer

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Posted 08 October 2018 - 08:20 PM

The 12'04 time control in live tournaments (the WC was played at 16'04) is much harder than the 5'15 here. You need much quicker thinking and a good setup that allows you to play most moves quickly. For a ~360 move game, you have 12 * 60 / 360 + 4 = 6 seconds per move. You can only spend 15s per move on 2 out of each 11 moves (2/11 * 15 + 9/11 * 4 = 6). So "muscle memory" and "routine" are very important for live play. You are forced to use only 4s per move for 9 out of each 11 moves, otherwise you get into time trouble.

 

For me, 4s per move is just not enough time to register what has happened, such as which piece got revealed or where did some other revealed pieces go. My memory goes totally blank (I forgot a marshall 3 times in my last live tournament). I hopefully remedied the graveyard management by having a systematic storage that allows me to place and check pieces with only my peripheral vision. And hopefully my live memory improves quickly after gaining more live experience. It also used to be much worse online. Maybe I need to practice playing much faster online as well.

I have the opposite feeling :). Most moves are easily done for me within 4 seconds. I think more than 9 out of 11. But sometimes I need a longer time to see how the situation is and what strategy I should take. Then 5 minutes is really low and 12 is really good.


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#7 GaryLShelton

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Posted 08 October 2018 - 08:54 PM

If we are ever to incorporate a larger buffer here online, I'm not sure how we'll ever keep the bad guys from just abusing the buffer that much worse than some do now. 5 minutes is one thing to wait. 12? Seems horrible.
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The complete GS&F Rules can be found here: http://forum.strateg...rum-rules-2016/
Draw Refusal Rules, specifically, can be read here: http://forum.strateg...931#entry468931

#8 TemplateRex

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Posted 08 October 2018 - 09:07 PM

If we are ever to incorporate a larger buffer here online, I'm not sure how we'll ever keep the bad guys from just abusing the buffer that much worse than some do now. 5 minutes is one thing to wait. 12? Seems horrible.

 

If there is every new programming being done you would also add the following:

  1. game clock + auto draw adjudication for running out the game clock and also for e.g. 100-200 moves without info-reveals (attacks, scout moves, unmoved pieces moved etc.)
  2. use the 12'04 format + 50 minutes game clock (from live tournaments and Gravon), and perhaps 2'03 + 10 minutes game time for QA (from barrage live tournaments)
  3. proper handling of ISF more-squares-rule

But yes, it sucks to be waiting 12 minutes. Maybe add max thinking time of 5 min for single move? 


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#9 GaryLShelton

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Posted 08 October 2018 - 09:18 PM

I'm not a fan of the 4 second move timer thing, but maybe if the MT could authorize changes to the buffer for violaters of decorum we could make buffer changes. Anyone abusively wasting his opponent's time with the 12 minute buffer would have his buffer reduced to 5 minutes for ten games or so. With a 4 second move timer and only a 5 minute buffer, he'd be experiencing some learning hopefully. πŸ™‚
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The complete GS&F Rules can be found here: http://forum.strateg...rum-rules-2016/
Draw Refusal Rules, specifically, can be read here: http://forum.strateg...931#entry468931

#10 TemplateRex

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Posted 08 October 2018 - 09:21 PM

Anyway, the thread is derailing a bit, perhaps you can move the site improvement posts to a separate thread, Gary?


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#11 GaryLShelton

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Posted 08 October 2018 - 09:25 PM

Done.
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The complete GS&F Rules can be found here: http://forum.strateg...rum-rules-2016/
Draw Refusal Rules, specifically, can be read here: http://forum.strateg...931#entry468931

#12 Wogomite

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Posted 08 October 2018 - 09:59 PM

I'm all for a 4 second buffer.

#13 Napoleon 1er

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Posted 08 October 2018 - 10:11 PM

Done.


Thanks
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#14 Don_Homer

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Posted 09 October 2018 - 02:51 PM

If we are ever to incorporate a larger buffer here online, I'm not sure how we'll ever keep the bad guys from just abusing the buffer that much worse than some do now. 5 minutes is one thing to wait. 12? Seems horrible.

Yes, this is a good point. Thats why I thought about adding the option of normal ISF clocks and/or only add them to the platinum players. Also something to look forward too to reach platinum this way. 

 

I also had the idea of making a new team of forum members with the goal to improve/implement and focus on things which are discussed here and for example bug reduction, faster website and other things which makes this website better. In this team it might be usefull to have an MT-member too, for communication purposes. 


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#15 GaryLShelton

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 04:42 AM

I'm all for a 4 second buffer.

.

A 4 second buffer?

That would be quite the challenge, Ryan! πŸ˜„
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The complete GS&F Rules can be found here: http://forum.strateg...rum-rules-2016/
Draw Refusal Rules, specifically, can be read here: http://forum.strateg...931#entry468931

#16 John_the_righteo

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 12:57 PM

Playing with the computer sometimes alone the animation of a piece change takes 8 sec. But I assume from time to time something is wrong maybe on my machine with the animation. I donβ€˜t know if others also have this problem, Having only 4 seconds buffer I for sure will loose these games by force on time....

Is this β€žbugβ€œ my computer only related or are others having the same issues?

John
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#17 Wogomite

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 01:59 PM

.

A 4 second buffer?

That would be quite the challenge, Ryan! πŸ˜„


That is what they use in live and in live your not just clicking a mouse, your moving your hand to your piece AND the game clock within that time. I think four seconds is just fine.

#18 TemplateRex

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 02:01 PM

That is what they use in live and in live your not just clicking a mouse, your moving your hand to your piece AND the game clock within that time. I think four seconds is just fine.

 

in live they have a 4s delay per move, and a 12 minute buffer. 


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#19 GaryLShelton

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 02:59 PM

Sorry, Ryan. I knew what you meant.

But here online we've always called them a move timer and a buffer for the 15 second and 5 minute clocks, respectively. πŸ™‚
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The complete GS&F Rules can be found here: http://forum.strateg...rum-rules-2016/
Draw Refusal Rules, specifically, can be read here: http://forum.strateg...931#entry468931

#20 Wogomite

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 03:58 PM

My apologies fellas for not using proper terminology. The current 15 second (move timer or delay) should be 4 seconds. Happy? :)
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