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Double Chasing Discussion


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#1 GaryLShelton

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 04:22 AM

Mick, if you venture into the movement rules programming, it'd be nice while you are at it to stop the double chase here on the site, in both the Single Player and Multiplayer games.

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#2 Astros 17

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 06:17 AM

Mick, if you venture into the movement rules programming, it'd be nice while you are at it to stop the double chase here on the site, in both the Single Player and Multiplayer games.

How often does double chasing occur? I am curious because so many people love to bring it up. I've played thousands of games and I can count on one hand the number of times I have seen it.

Edited by GaryLShelton, 25 July 2017 - 12:44 PM.

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#3 GaryLShelton

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 07:40 AM

I don't know, astros. It's a good question. Why did you guys take pains to especially mention it would be enforced in the next NASF tournament? I used to hear a lot about it. The one tournament I was a member of the TC for, the CL of spring 2014, Nortrom felt so strongly about the issue that he told us he refused to play in our tournament because of it. Now Nortrom is TC (well, WC) himself on this very sure where it's still allowed, so the ironic still happens daily.

But maybe you're right, astros, and it's not that often experienced a thing. I myself have not experience it. I always assumed it was a cheap tool used against the elite, and that's why Nortrom disliked it so. Not to pin this on one person, though. Many people are on that bandwagon.

I personally think the biggest issue we have is the multiple account one. Far more people complain about that. But of the two, fixing double chasing would be a walk in the park, programming-wise.

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#4 Nortrom

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 11:19 AM

Ti clarify, multiple chasing is not allowed in the WCO
"Rock is overpowered, paper is fine" - scissors

#5 GaryLShelton

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 01:24 PM

Wow, I mention your name and BAM, there you are! Thanks, Nortrom, for the reminder to never say anything bad about you. You must have the radar out for your name! lol. 😁

Two questions, Nortrom. Are you insisting upon video evidence for any double or multiple chasing events? Has anyone made claim of one yet?

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#6 Nortrom

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 02:19 PM

I just happened to find the topic name to he interesting.

Anyway, either vid or very good screenshots...... other question, not yet
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#7 Astros 17

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 05:12 PM

I don't know, astros. It's a good question. Why did you guys take pains to especially mention it would be enforced in the next NASF tournament? I used to hear a lot about it. The one tournament I was a member of the TC for, the CL of spring 2014, Nortrom felt so strongly about the issue that he told us he refused to play in our tournament because of it. Now Nortrom is TC (well, WC) himself on this very sure where it's still allowed, so the ironic still happens daily.
But maybe you're right, astros, and it's not that often experienced a thing. I myself have not experience it. I always assumed it was a cheap tool used against the elite, and that's why Nortrom disliked it so. Not to pin this on one person, though. Many people are on that bandwagon.
I personally think the biggest issue we have is the multiple account one. Far more people complain about that. But of the two, fixing double chasing would be a walk in the park, programming-wise.


We wanted to align ourselves with ISF rules.
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#8 Fairway

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Posted 30 January 2016 - 03:46 PM

I have experienced double chase 3 times in my 1300 games. My opponents were all... 'decent' sports, as they stopped after a couple of minutes of double chasing, realizing the game was making no progress. I have used double chase only once, to force a draw on a guy who would not accept a clear draw.


I'm always a winner- win or lose the game. I take my mistakes and learn from them!

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#9 GaryLShelton

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Posted 31 January 2016 - 02:20 PM

Fairway brings a comment today about double chasing that I have moved to this thread. For further reading two previous discussions of double chasing can be found in the 2015 archive here:

http://forum.strateg...=double chasing

http://forum.strateg...=double chasing

I have experienced double chase 3 times in my 1300 games. My opponents were all... 'decent' sports, as they stopped after a couple of minutes of double chasing, realizing the game was making no progress. I have used double chase only once, to force a draw on a guy who would not accept a clear draw.



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#10 GaryLShelton

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Posted 07 February 2016 - 01:16 AM

The following few posts are taken from Star Wars or Star Trek? in Off Topic. gls
__________

Midnightguy, do you remember when trickz used to write without rap? It was in the dim and distant past, but I was there, I remember! I'd like to find the hood where he since visited to see if I can find the old straightforward trickz. I liked the old trickz. But it's like he took a long walk off a short pier at Antwerp and we haven't seen him from that time.



There is for me no reason to 'talk normal' if :

a) all my reports are filed as nonsense
b ) my tournament drawings are at least debatable if not rigged
c) the entire books I've written about the ISF-rules is considered as crap
d) I get punished as always while others get away even if I report them
e) I face a creationist who switch sides faster than light regarding ISF-rules
f) this forum is only ment for me for some entertainment since severe discussions are a one-sided, narrowminded
nazistic view of a game that should be accessible worldwide without secret codes used bye "eliteplayers"


I can finish the entire alphabet like this for more reasons but here's your straight answer.
Old Gary better not start again about the old Trickz :)
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#11 GaryLShelton

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Posted 07 February 2016 - 01:17 AM

There is for me no reason to 'talk normal' if :

e) I face a creationist who switch sides faster than light regarding ISF-rules

I can finish the entire alphabet like this for more reasons but here's your straight answer.
Old Gary better not start again about the old Trickz :)



trickz, I am very curious about who this Creationist, ISF-rule two-stepping person you're speaking of is. :) I wonder if he's the same guy who still agrees you on "continuous"? trickz, I always liked your argument on that but it's been a long, long time since I agreed with you about double chasing in general. It most certainly wasn't a quick change. I went dragging and screaming, I think... In my over 2400 posts here, there's quite a few where I actually argued for double chasing and against the Two Squares. (What was I thinking? Must have driven HmmNess insane...:))

I forgive myself for such insanity now. :)

If you're upset about defending the flag, do you remember the famous Enigma/ABSH case?

http://forum.strateg...f-absh/?hl=absh

There Enigma claimed the faulty programming here allowed ABSH to delay indefinitely while defending his flag. Do you remember this case? Most of thought, well, it's Enigma so he's got to be right. Even maxroelofs and The Prof thought this. But you know what? Everyone was wrong. ABSH was right. The programming here was fine and in complete agreement with the ISF. None other than Nortrom cleared up the air on that deal. So both the programming here and the ISF will not automatically stop a fellow trying to defend his flag.

trickz, I don't hold to double chasing with you, no. That's true, but I do hold to counter chasing. That is a different critter entirely. The first is done all by one person. In the second each player has a part and each has to agree to stop or drive each other crazy. That's a perfectly good reaction to being chased.

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#12 GaryLShelton

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Posted 07 February 2016 - 01:19 AM

trickz, I am very curious about who this Creationist, ISF-rule two-stepping person you're speaking of is. :) I wonder if he's the same guy who still agrees you on "continuous"? trickz, I always liked your argument on that but it's been a long, long time since I agreed with you about double chasing in general. It most certainly wasn't a quick change. I went dragging and screaming, I think... In my over 2400 posts here, there's quite a few where I actually argued for double chasing and against the Two Squares. (What was I thinking? Must have driven HmmNess insane... :))

If you still agree on the continuous-part, then how come you are against the double chase for flag defending?
That's a contradiction. Fact is : there is no continuous chase going on, fullbinds are broken down after each move and the walking bombs secure the tie.
I forgive myself for such insanity now. :)

If you're upset about defending the flag, do you remember the famous Enigma/ABSH case?

http://forum.strateg...f-absh/?hl=absh

There Enigma claimed the faulty programming here allowed ABSH to delay indefinitely while defending his flag. Do you remember this case? Most of thought, well, it's Enigma so he's got to be right. Even maxroelofs and The Prof thought this. But you know what? Everyone was wrong. ABSH was right. The programming here was fine and in complete agreement with the ISF. None other than Nortrom cleared up the air on that deal. So both the programming here and the ISF will not automatically stop a fellow trying to defend his flag.

I can't see this topic since I don't have permission it says.
I also don't care what Enigma, Nortrom or other so called eliteplayers think about the situations on the board.
They're all ISF-minded, obsessed adepts and for them it's logic that two inferior ranks can break through.


trickz, I don't hold to double chasing with you, no. That's true, but I do hold to counter chasing. That is a different critter entirely. The first is done all by one person. In the second each player has a part and each has to agree to stop or drive each other crazy. That's a perfectly good reaction to being chased.

Dude, you don't even know what you're saying anymore.
So first you agree with me, then suddenly not anymore although you still agree with the continuous part and now you don't agree anymore,.......or I dunno, whatever.
I also said a thousand times that counter chasing is very similar and in fact the same as double chasing.
Both should be accepted. Cuz' also here, after each threat, the fullbind is broken down in a neverending loop.
It doesn't make any sense if you allow counterchasing but forbid double chasing.
If so, the word continuous gets a total other meaning than its true origin and with that, you screw the dictionnaires and the rules :)
Btw, double chasing has nothing to do with the two squares rule as you stated in your first paragraph.
The two square rule is only in play with the counterchase-trap.
In the double chase-situation, the player who's being chased is in good position so he's in alligned with the two square rule.
In the counterchase this isn't the case since there is a trap that is being used if the chaser fullbinds.



But anyway, we're off topic here,.....which you started btw cuz' I dedicated my contribution for the Starwars part :)



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#13 Astros 17

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Posted 07 February 2016 - 01:22 AM

Why does it matter? Double chasing occurs so rarely why do people insist on complaining about it?


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#14 GaryLShelton

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Posted 07 February 2016 - 01:36 AM

Dude, I do know what I'm saying. The fact that I agree with you on the word continuous has nothing to do with double chasing being bad. It's bad. Get over it. What I have said is that there's a way to have a ban on double chasing without using the word continuous or anything like it. It's the SMT I mentioned earlier.

There is no logical validity to your saying counter chasing "is very similar and in fact the same as double chasing". You only connect the two different events through your incessant (continuous? 😊) pleading to the "continuous" argument. I agree with you on that word. I do. But I don't agree with you that one person ought to dictate the result of the game through a pattern of repeated chasing moves that only he controls. This is where we seriously differ.

With counter chasing both players are participating in an unending chasing event. I agree with Dieter and co. (ISF) and you, too, that this should be allowed. The rules shouldn't necessarily quell every stalemate event. Let the boys play all night is what I say--there's no pill for ignorance.

However, in the double chase event only one person is doing the chasing. He's doing both legs of it, and alternating with either one or more pieces against two pieces or more of his opponent. This is where it's bad. The double chaser's opponent is helpless to end the event. How is the same as counter chasing?

You are probably going to say that they are the same because both situations are not truly "continuous" attacks because the opponent's every move breaks the otherwise "continuous" chase. But this blinding reliance upon your semantical argument causes you to ignore the underlying right and wrong of the actual events. If the ISF language were changed to remove "continuous", could you see joining the mainstream on this issue?

So it comes down to this, a straight up question, trickz: for double chasing do you think it's right that one player be allowed to dictate a never-ending repetitious series of moves on his opponent who is powerless to stop him, short of conceding a piece?
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#15 GaryLShelton

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Posted 07 February 2016 - 03:04 AM

Why does it matter? Double chasing occurs so rarely why do people insist on complaining about it?


astros, I'll agree that it's rarer than the talk would make one think. But when I asked you about why it was insisted upon for the NASF you said it was to bring the rules in line with the ISF. Should stratego.com do anything less?

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#16 Astros 17

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Posted 07 February 2016 - 03:13 AM

astros, I'll agree that it's rarer than the talk would make one think. But when I asked you about why it was insisted upon for the NASF you said it was to bring the rules in line with the ISF. Should stratego.com do anything less?

I am not saying we should not implement, but people care so much about something that matters so little. 


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#17 Lonello

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Posted 07 February 2016 - 11:10 AM

Wallpapers.


Lo

#18 Moriarty

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Posted 11 February 2016 - 01:58 AM

Wallpapers.

?


I have no idea what that thing under my avatar is. I've always liked stickers




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