Jump to content


Photo

Proposal Log Discussion 8 - Scoring System


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
24 replies to this topic

#21 Major Nelson

Major Nelson

    Major

  • Moderators
  • 1,130 posts
  • Coat of arms
  • Platinum Marshal

Posted 21 May 2018 - 01:42 AM

In football, the game is starting as a draw and either team must do something very drastic and rare to change that (a goal, which happens on average only about 2.5 times per game).

That's a solid point, I would say that this is the case with live stratego, too (because of the clock, draw is a very likely result). I admit the situation is different with online stratego, but I suppose it just suits me better if things are the same for live and online.


Winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is.


#22 Don_Homer

Don_Homer

    Lieutenant

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 729 posts
  • Coat of arms
  • Platinum Spy

Posted 21 May 2018 - 10:42 PM

This data is for live tournaments, where draws are more common than online games because of the time limits on games.  Perhaps the TC can give the statistics on the draw rate of TC tournament games, and also a breakdown between 6-3-1 and 2-1-0 tournaments to see if there is any difference. 

 

 

If this is true, why should tournament play encourage a different style of play than regular ranked games?  Also, why should attacking be encouraged if it is a risk that player would think is unwise in a ranked game?

 

The fact is that 6-3-1 counts a draw as 40% win and 60% loss for both players.  If this were applied to ranked games then a draw between players close in rating would deduct rating points from EACH player (a total net negative of 5 points).  If you wouldn't support this, I really don't see how you can support 6-3-1 for tournaments.

Well the time clock here makes it very different than offline games with clock indeed. So I guess draws are rare here. So in this case I think you are right, an equal system like 2-1-0 might be the best for now. Altough some of the points underneath are also arguments to keep the 631 system with the clock system we have here now (5min/20 seconds I think?).

 

However, Im still having some hope the clock system will change here for the better (12.04 clock time, 4 secs a move 55 min game time or something close to this). With these clock settings I think 6-3-1 is the best for

1. more fun games. Attacking games give more fun to most people. For the majority its no fun to shuffle on your own side of the board for ages, especially when your opponent is doing the same. That way there is no risk, no creativity and less diversity of gameplay.

2. more fair that you have to work for your games. You get less situations like: Im standing good now on the leaderboard (of a tournament), a draw is sufficient. So I will do nothing but defending my draw and taking a lot of time every turn. And of course not taking any risk and all of the above things will happen more than we want.

3. More diversity in results. Just statistically you will get less players who end equally, less times buch points or other variables have to decide who end up higher.

 

And giving less points for a draw does not necessarily mean that you lose rating points. I think in the offline kleier list this is not the case (so two draws is (about) the same for your rating than 1 win, 1 lose. 

 

(reaction to 2nd post the Prof): In the past they used the 6-1-0 system in live tournaments. Thats way too much for me too. And there were still draws :)


Edited by Don_Homer, 21 May 2018 - 10:52 PM.

Molto Bene, Thats a nica Donut !


#23 TheOptician

TheOptician

    Marshal

  • Tournament Manager
  • 3,078 posts
  • Coat of arms
  • Platinum Captain

Posted 01 June 2018 - 08:32 AM

This data is for live tournaments, where draws are more common than online games because of the time limits on games. Perhaps the TC can give the statistics on the draw rate of TC tournament games, and also a breakdown between 6-3-1 and 2-1-0 tournaments to see if there is any difference.


If this is true, why should tournament play encourage a different style of play than regular ranked games? Also, why should attacking be encouraged if it is a risk that player would think is unwise in a ranked game?

The fact is that 6-3-1 counts a draw as 40% win and 60% loss for both players. If this were applied to ranked games then a draw between players close in rating would deduct rating points from EACH player (a total net negative of 5 points). If you wouldn't support this, I really don't see how you can support 6-3-1 for tournaments.


There is only a difference between 6-3-1 and 2-1-0 in the case where a player draws 2 or more of their group games. I'd have to check whether this has ever happened.

In the very rare case that it does happen - and result in the systems providing different finishing positions, using 6-3-1 effectively acts as a tiebreaker equivalent to 'player who won more games qualifies'. This is often used as a tie-breaker in other tournaments that do use 2-1-0 (using 6-3-1 just builds it in automatically).

Anything that reduces the likelihood of needing a play-off (and a tournament delay/change in schedule) is appealing.
  • GaryLShelton likes this

#24 astros

astros

    Stratego TM

  • WC Online Team
  • 804 posts
  • Coat of arms
  • Platinum Lieutenant

Posted 05 June 2018 - 11:03 PM

Imagine Player A defeats Player B. In the next two matches, Player A draws twice and loses once, while Player B wins twice and loses once.

Under the 6-3-1 system, Player B finishes ahead of Player A by a score of 14-13, even though Player A won head to head and did not necessarily have a worse overall performance.
I'm in love with Stacy's mom.

#25 TheOptician

TheOptician

    Marshal

  • Tournament Manager
  • 3,078 posts
  • Coat of arms
  • Platinum Captain

Posted 07 June 2018 - 06:20 PM

TC has now voted on this proposal.

Result 4-0 (For)

TC will adopt 2-1-0 as the default scoring method moving forwards.

Some thoughts from TC members:

'a draw is a decent result, and shoudn't be treated more like a loss...It should be just fair to reflect this in awarded points'

'I think 2-1-0 is a better reflection of the strength of a players results than 6-3-1'
  • Wogomite and Fks like this




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users