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#161 Morx

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Posted 29 April 2018 - 08:22 PM

Actually it is more at marker post 140 and that is not me, that is you.

 

After that Fks is questioning your motives and I suggest you are an alias too.

@MT if I had forum edit rights in this thread, it would have already moved for being offtopic.



#162 DISLIKE

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Posted 29 April 2018 - 08:24 PM

Actually it is more at marker post 140 and that is not me, that is you.

 
I'll quote marker 140:
 

So suddenly you are all dodgy and not so "objective" anymore? I asked you 18 questions, but judging from this reply, you are unable to address them properly. And as for your single hypocritical remark: you were the first to insult either party.
 
You are only detailed and elaborate when it suits you. Personal bias?


I wrote a very substantive answer, and get a dodgy off-topic reply. How is attempting to get back on-topic starting the off-topic ramble about aliases?

Edited by DISLIKE, 29 April 2018 - 08:29 PM.

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#163 Don_Homer

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Posted 29 April 2018 - 09:34 PM

@MT can you cut out most of the clutter and throw it in a separate thread?

 

Most of it is on page 7 and 8 and involves posts by and responding to DISLIKE.

the irony...


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#164 Napoleon 1er

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Posted 29 April 2018 - 09:35 PM

Where did I imply you were Have Fun? I'm just emboldening certain words.

 

 

I hope that being the brave Challenger! you are, you will rise to the challenge and tell everyone on the forum your alternate accounts. :o

have you been able to move on with clean ranking and alias list?


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#165 DISLIKE

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Posted 01 May 2018 - 01:47 PM

@KissMyCookie

In many of your posts you request (rather demand) responses from MT or others, and they are given to you.

In this substantiated post, I requested answers from you to 18+ questions. A couple of days have passed, and you did not come up with any substantive answer to them. The only thing this is manifesting is that you do not have an answer, and agree with me. Please either confirm so, or address the answers properly and substantiated, and show why these traits are desirable for a moderator in your opinion.

--
 


Fair enough, dislike.
 
The fact that you criticize the posting because the writer used parenthesis is absurd. The material provided in the parenthetic parameters further illustrates and solidifies their point of view–they are not superfluous sentences, but decidedly essential when making one's point of view clearer for anyone wanting to know better his candidacy platform.
 
The fact that you wrote what you did distinguishes itself as an attack without basis or context to the related complaint–the use of parenthesis. Thus, I conclude you have a personal bias against this person and it makes your remarks less credible.

 
Haha, you are good at twisting stuff around by only referring to the first sentence, I'll give you that. THIS post exactly marks the spot.
 
Well, let me elaborate, because you do not seem to grasp the essence without (parenthesized) explanations, or deem the community unfit to do so themselves. I am going to copy Nortroms message here, and elaborate, though without parenthesis, as they seem to distract you from the actual point made.
 

Judge the following cases/reports:
 
- Language abuse (Just as apparent as here)
- Chasing (Not (yet) enforced here)
- Draw refusal (Same as here, but during a game, we could actually watch & chat so we hardly ever had to retroactively judge a case)
 
Often done by reviewing logs or/and watching the game replay.
 
Community related tasks:
 
- Engage in fruitful discussions regarding improvements and such (does not include demonizing members you may or may not agree with)
A1) Can you state that this statement is not utmost hypocritical, after Nortrom has been demonizing Lonello for weeks if not months? A2) And did Lonello actually demonize someone? A3) And do you really see added value from this statement? Do you really regard the community incapable of deducting this themselves. I for one would've put more trust in your fellow Stratego-maniacs.
- Communicate between AT (Admin Team) and (forum) members (would be MT and (forum) members here)
- Forum management (This forum could use some management ;))
B1) Do you see added value from this statement? B2) Don't you regard this as subjective? Something the community is capable of deciding themselves? B3) Don't you regard this as an offensive sting towards the current MT, he is supposed to be teaming up with? B4) Are you willing to deny that he basically states all of them do a bad job currently, and he is going to teach them a lesson? Do you really think that is a good foundation of future cooperation with existing MT members? 
- Tournaments (We have a TC here, so this wouldn't be applicable)
- Introducing / helping out new members (This 'other site' had one big chat room opposed to 20ish here, so any new members would be spotted immediately. Much harder on here, also, the interface is more intuitive here. "Play game" can't get much simpler than that).
 
Miscellaneous:
 
- Software testing (probably wouldnt be applicable here, but still a useful skill as it can help reproduce bugs/glitches)
- Software improvement suggestions ( :))
C1) What is this smiley supposed to implicate? C2) What is its added value?
- Battling multiple accounts (unless all accounts were registered) (We had more tools at our disposal, also, multi accounts don't seem to be a priority here)
- Resolving technical issues (java, firewalls/connection, installing the software etc) (I've helped several members here with the dreaded bug(s) where a game won't start)
D1) This is something you (KissMyCookie) hold in high regard. However, it does not apply here. Metaforge is driven by a Java Applet, either as browser applet or running within a JVM on a PC. Java Applet's were and are a high security risk, and hence most browsers and/or firewalls blocked them. Although this role was indeed useful there (though an instruction on the website would suffice too), I want to emphasize that it does not apply to Stratego.com as it used more modern and secure technologies. You (KissMyCookie) getting all hyped up over something you probably know was irrelevant (and trying to make a fool of the rest of the community over it) shows your personal bias.
- Training & Introduction of new mods (I don't know the current procedure, but given some recent examples, I suppose this could definitely use some improvements ;)).
E1) Do you see added value from this statement? E2) Don't you regard this as subjective? Something the community is capable of deciding themselves? E3) Don't you regard this as an offensive sting towards the current MT, he is supposed to be teaming up with? E4) Are you willing to deny that he basically states all of them do a bad job currently, and he is going to teach them a lesson? Do you really think that is a good foundation of future cooperation with existing MT members? 

 
So basically, I observed four facts here:

  • This posts contains stingy - unnecessary - remarks. Undesirable for a moderator; as they should remain objective and not attach personal stings over grudges.
  • This posts contains subjectivity in an attempt to desperately convince the community. In my opinion, the community is perfectly capable to judge for themselves, they are (mostly) not imbeciles. Undesirable for a moderator; as they should trust the judgement of those they serve.
  • This post contains a hypocritical remark. Undesirable for a moderator; as they should hold integrity in high regard.
  • This post looks down upon the existing MT. A severe indication of incompatibility, which makes him an undesirable moderator for Stratego.com at this time.

To elaborate further for you, based on these four observations, I replied with with my opinion over those:
 

This post may have been decent if most parenthesized stuff would have been left out. Exactly those unnecessary stingy remarks make you an undesirable moderator in my opinion. You seem to be unable to purely remain objective, without adding your personal stingy stuff triggering others you do not seem to respect. Also, you seem to hold yourself in way too high regard, which is undesirable too. Finally, your remark on "demonization" is hypocritical to say the least.

My vote goes to any other than those involved in the late mess created. You first create a mess and then promote yourself by solving it. Reminds me of Trump and Kim Jong-un.

 
 
Based on purely deductible factual observations from a single post, you manage to claim I have a personal bias? While it is purely based on the contents of a single message I am replying to?
And that makes you also claim my opinion is less credible than those of others?
 
Seriously, you are either trying to fool the community with your fuel (or cheerleading), or your brains must be stuck up your cookie.
 
But one thing gets pretty clear from this all: it does show your (KissMyCookie) personal bias. Reflecting and blaming that trait on others is pathetic, and confirmatory of it. If I were to use your logic now, I'd have to conclude that that makes your remarks less credible.

 

--

 

@KissMyCookie

In many of your posts you request (rather demand) responses from MT or others, and they are given to you.

In this substantiated post, I requested answers from you to 18+ questions. A couple of days have passed, and you did not come up with any substantive answer to them. The only thing this is manifesting is that you do not have an answer, and agree with me. Please either confirm so, or address the answers properly and substantiated, and show why these traits are desirable for a moderator in your opinion.


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#166 Nortrom

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Posted 01 May 2018 - 01:49 PM

Nick, would you join my YQDGA club? ( Your Questions Don't Get Answered Club )


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#167 DISLIKE

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Posted 01 May 2018 - 02:21 PM

Nick, would you join my YQDGA club? ( Your Questions Don't Get Answered Club )

 

Well Nortrom, I have a question for you too; so let's see if we are in the YGDGA club.

 

You deem a temporary position -albeit as a compromise- fit to see your desired actions executed, right? That makes me wonder why you require and desire the moderator role so much; so to prevent any unsubstantiated theories, I'd like to ask you directly.

 

My suggestion would be to become a Special Liaison to see your desired change happen, and work closely and cooperatively with MT on it to achieve that. This way, you do not have to judge draw refusal and other cases all day, and can focus on the stuff that matters to you most.

 

Why do you need the moderator role for that? You would have 20% or 16,67% voting power anyway; not much of a difference if you cooperate well and take eachother seriously. You have made clear that this did work in the past, but what makes you think that 20%/16.67% voting power will change that?

 

Before jumping to any conclusions, let me explain what some people might afraid of. One of the traits that comes with MT, is that you are taken a bit more seriously by AT, as there supposedly is a direct communication medium. Currently, rioting is happening outside MT, but you will have the ability to bring that within MT. With your strong blackmailing skills, you'd have the ability to make use of the AT-channel to blackmail MT one by one; as you do not seem to hold them in high regard as demonstrated by earlier posts. And you know you'd win that battle. This is just one of many unsubstantiated theories about potential scenarios, but given your earlier rioting (justified or not) it is worth considering. So you addressing this issue could work in your favor.

 

Therefore, with respect to the elaboration above, I'd like you to answer the following questions substantiated and accurately: (let's skip the evasive part this time, and please do not only quote a partial message)

  1. I suggested the Special Liaison role in cooperation with any acting MT. What traits/powers of the moderator-ship do you require to make your desired change happen, that cannot be provided by the SL-role, and why do you require those traits/power?
  2. What makes you think you can achieve them with 20% / 16.67% voting power, and not within the SL-role?
  3. What makes you think that a temporary position will suffice, in contrast to a SL-role?

Edited by DISLIKE, 01 May 2018 - 02:23 PM.

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#168 Nortrom

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Posted 01 May 2018 - 02:59 PM

1. In order to see the behind the scenes inefficienies, a SL role would not suffice. For example, I feel many cases take way too long to come to a verdict. Without seeing the actual "behind the scenes" issues the MT faces, it would be hard to improve those. Perhaps they actually do function to the maximum of their ability, that would be, I admit, a disappointment (This may come across as condescending, but is not meant so). Ultimately, I would hold 1/5th or 6th voting power, which is something 'SL' would not have. 
 
2. It still beats 0%. I've tried to work with MT on for example the enforcement of ISF rules (oct 2017), you could consider that as 'SL'. That didn't go well. The entire PM is on the forum somewhere. Leadership was very much lacking in that discussion from MT's side. It seriously felt like dealing with kindergarten level (no offense, MT). Ultimately, I would hold 1/5th or 6th voting power, which is something 'SL' would not have.
 
3. I've offered this 'compromise' to see if certain skeptical forum members would be willing to give me the benefit of their doubts, so far, they have not. To show that after the objectives would be done, I would have no issues no longer having a green name. I personally have no major objections to making it a agreement for a longer term though, if this is what the MT or/and community wants to see. 
 
As for the AT concern, I would assume that only things that are approved by a MT majority would be communicated for action to the AT. I don't think AT would be impressed if a MT member would say "Do X" and then the other MT members say they all disagree or that no majority was reached.

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#169 DISLIKE

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Posted 01 May 2018 - 03:05 PM

 

1. In order to see the behind the scenes inefficienies, a SL role would not suffice. For example, I feel many cases take way too long to come to a verdict. Without seeing the actual "behind the scenes" issues the MT faces, it would be hard to improve those. Perhaps they actually do function to the maximum of their ability, that would be, I admit, a disappointment (This may come across as condescending, but is not meant so). Ultimately, I would hold 1/5th or 6th voting power, which is something 'SL' would not have. 
 
2. It still beats 0%. I've tried to work with MT on for example the enforcement of ISF rules (oct 2017), you could consider that as 'SL'. That didn't go well. The entire PM is on the forum somewhere. Leadership was very much lacking in that discussion from MT's side. It seriously felt like dealing with kindergarten level (no offense, MT). Ultimately, I would hold 1/5th or 6th voting power, which is something 'SL' would not have.
 
3. I've offered this 'compromise' to see if certain skeptical forum members would be willing to give me the benefit of their doubts, so far, they have not. To show that after the objectives would be done, I would have no issues no longer having a green name. I personally have no major objections to making it a agreement for a longer term though, if this is what the MT or/and community wants to see. 
 
As for the AT concern, I would assume that only things that are approved by a MT majority would be communicated for action to the AT. I don't think AT would be impressed if a MT member would say "Do X" and then the other MT members say they all disagree or that no majority was reached.

 

 

Well, obviously I cannot join your YQDGA-club  :(

 

Thank you for this decent answer.

 

@KissMyCookie Maybe you could follow Nortrom's example?


Edited by DISLIKE, 01 May 2018 - 03:08 PM.

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#170 Morx

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Posted 01 May 2018 - 03:06 PM

@DISLIKE: you only asked this question to Nortrom, but I would like to add to it as well.

 

To really understand the working, you do not only need access to the discussions but also to the Tools they have at their disposal.

 

It is very possible that these tools are as bad as MT claims they are, but then you need to see them, use them and compare them to what is actually needed to improve them. Having a few years experience helping make the tools and using the tools at another site helps there.

 

Both Nortrom and me have this Admin/moderator experience from another site and are capable to turn this into requirements/solutions.



#171 Napoleon 1er

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Posted 01 May 2018 - 08:41 PM

...let's bring some pepper in this discussion ... I think Dislike is not Nick but Lonello ...!!! :blink:  :P


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#172 Nortrom

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Posted 01 May 2018 - 08:48 PM

...let's bring some pepper in this discussion ... I think Dislike is not Nick but Lonello ...!!! :blink:  :P

 

This has to be the biggest forum insult I've seen in a long time. 


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#173 Unladen Swallow

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Posted 01 May 2018 - 09:02 PM

...let's bring some pepper in this discussion ... I think Dislike is not Nick but Lonello ...!!! :blink:  :P

 

not enough emojis for it to be libello  :P  :lol:  :unsure:  :blink:  :ph34r:  :ph34r:


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#174 KissMyCookie

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Posted 01 May 2018 - 09:29 PM

...let's bring some pepper in this discussion ... I think Dislike is not Nick but Lonello ...!!! :blink:  :P

 

Time for you to get off the computer :o and sleep off what might be your drunkenness typing :wacko: . . . rubbish. :P


Edited by KissMyCookie, 02 May 2018 - 08:12 AM.


#175 Napoleon 1er

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Posted 02 May 2018 - 07:07 AM

Time for you to get off the computer and sleep off what might be your drunkenness typing . . . rubbish.


Please watch your words sir and don't consider your case for a generality ... if you want to make humor then add some emoticons so that it is clear ... like i did above with the pepper ...
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#176 KissMyCookie

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Posted 02 May 2018 - 08:12 AM

Please watch your words sir and don't consider your case for a generality ... if you want to make humor then add some emoticons so that it is clear ... like i did above with the pepper ...

 

You are correct, Daniel...I should have added the emoticons (I have corrected my mistake), so I apologize for any confusion–I had no intention of offending you with serious words as they were meant in a spirit of play.



#177 roeczak

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Posted 03 May 2018 - 12:31 AM

Hello all, 

I don't really have the time to write a lot but since some it seems some people value my opinion (to the point of asking me if I would be interested in an MT position, despite me saying many times I'm not, and on top of my already busy schedule and being TC and Greek TM)  I might as well give it. 

You might notice I was probably the only active forum member who didn't vote in the Lonello demod poll. This was mainly because I wasn't properly informed of all the facts, and even if I had read everything regarding this topic, it would just be the tip of the iceberg; a lot more is probably hidden in PMs and emails , maybe even predating my time on the site (I'm not really an expert on politics or what ever you want to call it). 

However, there was another reason for my abstaining. It was clear to me from the start that Nortrom primarily and Morx perhaps also were aspiring to be MT candidates, so that they could improve the site for all players (they are definitely capable of doing this I think) .

However, for some reason the MT of the time was probably not in very good terms with them (probably something to do with alternative playing options, I don't know and that is not the point anyway) so they (referring to the so called 'clique' there) decided to take out the one(s) that were opposed to change, especially since they(or he?) were the ones that started the provocation (Lonello's initial post that caused all this to begin (or go public) comes to mind). The way in which they did this, twisting every single word Lonello said (very un-MT-like actions by the way, I would never behave like that as stuff) to open multiple supposed cases (I don't care if they were valid or not, but we could have avoided all of this)  and create all this drama tired the forum users, especially the new ones, and for me was a big turn away from these people.

Recently though I have come to realise there was really no other way to accomplish that goal; someone has always to be the brave man that takes all the blame from the conservative guys, or else the site, the game and even society in general would remain stagnant. Lonello had to not be MT anymore, and if he couldn't see it , someone had to force (bully him if you like) out.

So I was against Lonello remaining in MT, but also against the way that he was forced out- thats why I didn't vote.

Now however that Lonello is gone we, the site users face a big decision. It is the first time in my two years here that I think we really have a chance to go forward as a game, as a community. If we could finally make this site attractive to real players we could be looking at a big boom for an already growing game. You know, I was talking with a fellow chessplayer, close to master strength, who also has a knack on the game. (You might guess who he is, he also has voted on the poll.) He has told me if the site doesn't change his rules to follow the ISF rules and actually get rid of all the abusers/cheaters (just like major chess sites are, fully functioning - most of them are also FREE by the way- better gaming experience does not always equate pay to win- as some people think or may have implied) he might quit the game. 

You know for one who openly talks, there is a hundred behind who are quitting because all this chasing, abusing and cheating and all demotes the game to just a child's one.

So I guess the recent events are putting a major dilemma to us, the community: do we want to go forward, hoping for a bright future or do we want our feet firm in the ground? Both opinions are equally valid to me; I won't hold anything against someone who believes this site or this game can't or shouldn't be improved/changed and he will have good reasons to think so.

My opinion is that it is the time to go forward. Enough with all the ancient-looking manual point alteration and everything like that. This should end . This is not the moderator's job and not the admin's job either. I can imagine Thibault from lichess.org , Erik from the chess.com site or even Dieter laughing at us for all of this. It should have been automatically enforced long ago. 

The new poll from MT about double-chasing is a good start, and it shows that the current MT as of now is open to change (a very good thing) , but as I also said there the important thing is the programming changes and making admin/Jumbo care. This is what we should strive for as a community. 

Nortrom has shown now that he regrets all of this drama turning users away form the forum and creating a cold war atmosphere. he is willing to make up for it by being a good MT- member and giving to the community, something he has already done. He is a top player of this game (the best one in my opinion), still young and a fresh member in the MT and ISF team as well. Added advantage that he is Dutch (where Jumbo is located.) I don't think the communtiy has anything to lose by voting for him. After all, if we don't like him, we can always kick him out - he knows that best. I'm convinced his intentions are clean and I'll be the first guy you can blame if it is proven otherwise.

Sorry to all the other candidates, almost all of which are active and nice communtiy members (who is Oracle?) , but I think this isn't even close.

Nevertheless there is one name that I would had love to see and maybe even preferred over Nortrom and that's Max Roelofs, who I got to meet last summer and was a very nice and cool guy. Max, I wish you the best wherever you are those days.

As for me, I will stay in TC for as long as they accept me :) I enjoy working with this group, they share the same passion and good will for the game I find in myself. 

Thanks for all for reading this super-long and super-tiring post. I owe two more super long tiring posts and I will make them when I have the time. I'm out. Good night everyone.

Roeczak

EDIT: I forgot to say I apologize for any inaccuracies or incorrect guesses on my part(I was never good at blindly lottoing). I really want you to get the gist of my post and not focus on the details. 


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#178 tobermoryx

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Posted 03 May 2018 - 12:36 AM

Great post Roeczak, just not sure about this bit

 

 

 

Nortrom has shown now that he regrets all of this drama turning users away form the forum and creating a cold war atmosphere


#179 Nortrom

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Posted 03 May 2018 - 12:48 AM

http://forum.strateg...lo/#entry452254

 

Now the main culprit is gone, I would like to express my sincere regret that this forum drama has been distracting from the true battles ahead. Special mention would have to go to Napoleon 1er, who stood up for the team and found himself devastated by the feedback received. I honestly wish things were different.

 

 

 

 

@ Roeczak, I'll address your post more carefully tomorrow


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#180 Losermaker

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Posted 03 May 2018 - 12:49 AM

one of the best posts of all time roeczak, thanks so much.






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