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MT Candidates Discussion


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#21 maxroelofs

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Posted 20 April 2018 - 04:14 PM

@KissMyCoockie

Thank you for your response. I agree with you on some parts. I do think that you have to watch out to not get a too strong opinion in the matter. It could be that this might block other good imput from getting to you.

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#22 KissMyCookie

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Posted 20 April 2018 - 04:45 PM

@maxroelofs

 

I am always happy to hear from you! And, I am always interested in hearing about someone's ideas for improvements, plans to build, and even constructive criticism. My only serious opinion on this matter is that those immediately involved must come to some understanding of how all of these events got shaped, started, and became a vital focus–this being essential to avoid similar scenarios in the future, and to build well and wise right now for our times, and our future.

 

And to you, too, your friend,

 

KMC  :)



#23 Morx

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Posted 20 April 2018 - 04:51 PM

Guys, let us not get distracted from the first open candidacy here by having ongoing discussion about other things.

I will give you a few reasons why Nortrom is a potentially good candidate to consider:

- He has expert knowledge of the game rules and tournament rules

 

- He is clearly familiar with the current case process on the forum

- He was seen by many players as a good moderator at another site (experience)

- He is passionate about what he does

- He has shown that he does not give up quickly when dealing with injustice


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#24 Don_Homer

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Posted 20 April 2018 - 08:03 PM

I will give you a few reasons why Nortrom is a potentially good candidate to consider:
- He has expert knowledge of the game rules and tournament rules

- He is clearly familiar with the current case process on the forum

- He was seen by many players as a good moderator at another site (experience)
- He is passionate about what he does
- He has shown that he does not give up quickly when dealing with injustice

In spite of the fact I agree with 4 reasons Morx gives here (I know little about Metaforge) I would advice to not let Nortrom in the mt-team. There are at least as much reasons why he is a bad candidate to consider. Read his posts and a person with a healthy set of brains can figure out why without further explanation.

 

Unfortunately I have few knowledge about a lot of players but from who I know good enough I would advice to consider Master Mind. He has a good stable personality, he works hard, he has shown a lot of commitment on his TC job, good relationships with a lot of players and I believe he already learned a lot from TheOptican (confirmation would be nice) about managing things. And I remember Nortrom himself did advice Master Mind earlier, so I expect also no complains from his corner when Master Mind would be a MT-member.


Edited by Don_Homer, 20 April 2018 - 08:04 PM.

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#25 Nortrom

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Posted 20 April 2018 - 08:06 PM

And I remember Nortrom himself did advice[sic] Master Mind earlier, so I expect also no complains from his corner when Master Mind would be a MT-member.

Correct :), same goes for Yellowhat who actually would be my #1 recommendation besides myself of course! ;).

 

I don't like the idea of burdening them with the clean up of the current mess though. Hence offering my services.


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#26 texaspete09

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Posted 20 April 2018 - 08:08 PM

I've talked to Nortrom, he doesn't want to be on the MT but he is willing to if he must. From what I gather, he was successful as an admin on Metaforge so he has my vote.


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#27 The Prof

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Posted 21 April 2018 - 01:14 AM

Some thoughts from a former MT member:  The "T" in MT does stand for "team" but here's what that means in my opinion.  Each member will independently evaluate each case and come to their own conclusion.  Each will test their own decisions for consistency with previous verdicts they have made.  They will listen to and reflect on the arguments made by other moderators and be open to changing their mind if logic dictates.  Vigorous disagreements can be had, but always with respectful language.  Whenever a moderator votes in the minority he should trust in the judgement of his colleagues, since the wisdom of the group in the long run is better than the judgement of any single individual.


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#28 KissMyCookie

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Posted 21 April 2018 - 08:36 AM

Some thoughts from a former MT member:  The "T" in MT does stand for "team" but here's what that means in my opinion.  Each member will independently evaluate each case and come to their own conclusion.  Each will test their own decisions for consistency with previous verdicts they have made.  They will listen to and reflect on the arguments made by other moderators and be open to changing their mind if logic dictates.  Vigorous disagreements can be had, but always with respectful language.  Whenever a moderator votes in the minority he should trust in the judgement of his colleagues, since the wisdom of the group in the long run is better than the judgement of any single individual.

 

@TheProf–Ultimately, the fundamental truth of your dictum is an important point of view which may lead to much success. These ideas, which I agree with, also come with a qualifier and a caveat: your approach can only function when a panel of similar minded individuals will accept these ideas openly. Himmler, Eichmann, Goebbels, and their leader were the majority, and for their country represented a wisdom worth fighting for...and I dare NOT compare the MT with them, as my in contrast point is this...even with the best philosophy at hand, if you do not have wise people working towards a common goal, willing to reflect and compromise, then the group and community are doomed for a disaster.

 

Leadership requires vision, strength, and courage, but if a group fails to act upon opportunities, or to trust in their community and the community's willingness to support their efforts to develop for a brighter future, then there is no point in continuing anything...there is no community without solid leadership–and a community fails to exist when it is not part of something that is alive and growing.

 

Thank you for your post.



#29 Napoleon 1er

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 03:01 PM

Thank you MTinsley for opening this thread. WIth regard to Nortrom joining MT I have following comments:

 

1) for

nortrom is motivated

nortrom has good knowledge of stratego, ISF rules etc...

nortrom looks like having sufficient time available to dedicate for MT's work and accepts to do it for free

nortrom has good command of english

 

2) against

nortrom has been abusive at several occasions, in particular against MT calling them morons etc...

nortrom has let metaforge die and has been declared "persona non grata" at gravon, so he is not welcome at other stratego promoting websites, mainly because of his personality.

nortrom has not proven to have enough team spirit. This is a key essential condition to be member of MT ... MT= Moderators Team. Stratego.com and MT do not want to just have copies of metaforge or life stratego habits. Stratego.com is the most successful stratego website on internet and has to remain as such. We all have to make sure this will not get destroyed. Team spirit to be part of MT is an absolute key condition. Nortrom has not yet proven he is able to team up with GaryLShelton, MTinsley and Major Nelson

Nortrom is obviously positioning himself above the others in terms of stratego knowhow ... see nortrom university, nortrom training proposals etc... on stratego.com nobody is "above" the others

nortrom has criticised a lot MT for not coming up with concrete proposals for implementation of ISF rules or improvement of draw refusal rules but he did never propose himself a clear and viable solution

Nortrom has created the strategodale 50 stories but I'm sure almost nobody did follow them on regular basis, . This initiative was time lost, was purely intended to mock MT, did not add any valuable input to stratego.com, did fool regular forum members and did only promote his personal vision and ego

 

considering the above, before i would approve nortrom joining MT I would like him to answer very clearly and without ambiguity the following questions:

- Why do you think you can team up with GaryLShelton, MTinsley and Major Nelson?

- How would you react, as MT member, if a forum regular member call you moron?

- What are your personal proposals of improvement for draw refusal cases?

- What are concretely the actions that you want to implement in order to have double chasing cases being managed according to ISF rules, knowing that you cannot count on programming changes?

- How long do you think to remain in MT?

- What % of the stratego community on this forum do you think would vote for you should you be selected by elections and what % of voters do you think should be a good number for you to join MT?


Edited by Napoleon 1er, 22 April 2018 - 03:02 PM.

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#30 steelers

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 03:46 PM

Unfortunately, I imagine it would be difficult to find good candidates that are willing to donate enough time when things are going well.  Given the current climate, I can't imagine many people are going to volunteer.  I can think of a half dozen people that would be very good choices, but I suspect they wouldn't want to put themselves in the position of having a thankless job in this environment.


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#31 Nortrom

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 03:59 PM

As always, I'm happy to answer some questions
 
- Why do you think you can team up with GaryLShelton, MTinsley and Major Nelson?
 
I intend on making cleaning up some mess using my previously accumulated experience. Unless requested by the MT > AND < community, I don't intend on making this a long term arrangement. As for your actual question: I know GLS to be a fair and open minded person. MTinsley I haven't seen much in action, but I've had a few exchanges with him and while he knows I am skeptical of the way he was appointed, I do feel he could make a good mod. Major_Nelson and I got off on good footing, but he seemed to have changed his attitude a little bit, which comes with a green name I suppose. Anyway, I don't intend on making friends, I intend on getting a much needed job done. If anything, that's a good thing. 
 
- How would you react, as MT member, if a forum regular member call you moron?
 
I've been called worse. I don't care. During meta times I had someone crossing a pic of mine with Hitler (as I edited/(re)moved one of his posts. I don't remember the exact event). I gave him a compliment for his photoshop skills and moved on. I'm not made of sugar, this is the internet.
 
- What are your personal proposals of improvement for draw refusal cases?
 
I'll discuss those once appointed.
 
- What are concretely the actions that you want to implement in order to have double chasing cases being managed according to ISF rules, knowing that you cannot count on programming changes?
 
I'll discuss those once appointed. I'll tell you this, Meta didn't have (until very late) anti multiple-square chasing either and it was dealt with just fine. While we had slightly more tools at our disposal back then though. I feel I have a good idea on how to tackle the issues at hand here regarding this very specific topic.
 
- How long do you think to remain in MT?
 
As long as needed. Look, some people may or may not like me due to whatever reason, that's fine. I don't want this to turn into a popularity contest by trying to convince those into liking my persona; I want to convince them by approving of my actions and new / altered policies implemented. I don't want to be a burden to MT by having to deal with certain forum members who may feel they have a bone to pick with me. Like I said before, I want to get an important objective done. I hope this to be done in a maximum of 10 or so weeks. We'll see how things stand then, but I would have no objections to losing my green name as part of a compromise to the concerned community.
 
- What % of the stratego community on this forum do you think would vote for you should you be selected by elections and what % of voters do you think should be a good number for you to join MT?
 
I honestly don't know, there are some who you could promise all sorts of improvements and they'd still vote against due to whatever reason. If we look at the ISF rules poll / lonello poll and consider those "forum community", I feel 60-70% would probably vote for me, and 10-15% may be convinced by the time limit compromise. As SDC81 (correct me if I'm wrong) said "Lead by example". Well obviously, the more %, the better. Last time I checked, MT wasn't interested in holding elections, but should it come to that, I'd hope to get around 70%. If there are lots of voters (say 25) and it's 51% (54% + 1) I'd be disappointed.
 
 
 
As for your 'againsts'
 
nortrom has been abusive at several occasions, in particular against MT calling them morons etc... 
 
Major_Nelson has called players 'pathetic idiots'. I wasn't aware that past comments were an issue all of a sudden.
 
nortrom has let metaforge die and has been declared "persona non grata" at gravon, so he is not welcome at other stratego promoting websites, mainly because of his personality.
 
I'd like you to rectify this statement. Meta died out due to abandonment of ownership (the players that are from meta will confirm this I assume: Sohal, Hielco, Dutchkillers, Morx, Losermaker, Gkaros, SEKERTZISS, berre, KARAISKAKIS, The Prof and possibly some others). Go ahead, ask them. I've been on good footing with the grav. admin for quite some years now.
 
nortrom has not proven to have enough team spirit. This is a key essential condition to be member of MT ... MT= Moderators Team. Stratego.com and MT do not want to just have copies of metaforge or life stratego habits. Stratego.com is the most successful stratego website on internet and has to remain as such. We all have to make sure this will not get destroyed. Team spirit to be part of MT is an absolute key condition. Nortrom has not yet proven he is able to team up with GaryLShelton, MTinsley and Major Nelson
 
This is where I have to disagree with you, while T stands for team, a team still consists of X amount of individuals. You don't have to like each other, you just have to share a common goal. If anything, this so called "team spirit" has shown that this had gotten in the way of the removal of one certain member, now 'honorary member', lonello.
 
Nortrom is obviously positioning himself above the others in terms of stratego knowhow ... see nortrom university, nortrom training proposals etc... on stratego.com nobody is "above" the others
 
The NU thing was a satirical thing if anything. Lonello picked up on this and it was, initially, all fun and games. What training proposals is it you are referring to? 
 
nortrom has criticised a lot MT for not coming up with concrete proposals for implementation of ISF rules or improvement of draw refusal rules but he did never propose himself a clear and viable solution
 
As you were in the PM involving that topic, you should know better. I have to give credit to lonello here, as he seemed to be the only one, together with you, to a certain degree, interested in looking for a pragmatic way of getting it done. GLS derailed the topic with off-topic comments several times, tober didn't seem interested in it at all and danis made 0 comments. Credit to GLS, despite derailing the topic several times, for actually being the only one that kept trying, though. The biggest issue here is that MT first started to discuss details.. instead of making a decision whether to actually enforce it or not. I trust you can confirm this. And yeah, eventually, as you can see in the PM I shared, I had enough of the pointless discussion with a team that wasn't going to succeed in this task.
 
 
Nortrom has created the strategodale 50 stories but I'm sure almost nobody did follow them on regular basis, . This initiative was time lost, was purely intended to mock MT, did not add any valuable input to stratego.com, did fool regular forum members and did only promote his personal vision and ego
 
This is exactly what I've said before, the 11 weeks MT needed to get rid of their worst member (lonello) should have been spent on useful things. The 'Future of MT' thread could, no, should have been a good start for this, instead, MT tolerated lonello's libelous comments and derailing the topic.
As it seemed, facts or proposals didn't seem to matter anymore. Imo it's better to look at things from a funny perspective.

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#32 KissMyCookie

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 04:00 PM

Unfortunately, I imagine it would be difficult to find good candidates that are willing to donate enough time when things are going well.  Given the current climate, I can't imagine many people are going to volunteer.  I can think of a half dozen people that would be very good choices, but I suspect they wouldn't want to put themselves in the position of having a thankless job in this environment.

 

Then, you should do the forum and the MT a big favor by submitting the names of those you admire for the nominations, and then allow those you are advocating to speak for themselves–they may accept it happily to your surprise, or they may Calvin Coolidge it. In any event, I do not see the harm in offering something so positive.



#33 KissMyCookie

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 04:10 PM

nortrom has not proven to have enough team spirit. Nortrom has not yet proven he is able to team up with GaryLShelton, MTinsley and Major Nelson

 

Have you personally, Daniel, tried to work on a project with Nortrom? As I read over the posting about trying to get "Double Chasing" a working procedure, I recall you had derailed the conversation during the correspondence, and it appeared that most of the other MT were quite glad to be working with Nortrom. Also, do you know for a fact that GaryLShelton, MTinsley, and Major Nelson flat out refuse to communicate with Nortrom?

 

If you cannot answer these questions with proof of your claim, then this is an irresponsible post. You need to post facts with evidence and not just speculative opinion.

 

As for "Team Spirit," my understanding is that although you felt a kind of this during your term, you and another former MT were at constant war with one another. How would this be any different with Nortrom? Judging by Nortrom's latest post in Topics of Abusive Behavior, he wanted a case opened, it was, the person he believed to have made the error denied it, and Nortrom took him at his word and asked for the case to be closed. Was this the same level of communication you had with another former MT member? From what I heard, the answer is "No."

 

So, again, please offer facts and evidence supporting your opinions because your post feels to express your opinion and feeling, not actual events.


Edited by KissMyCookie, 22 April 2018 - 04:11 PM.


#34 danis_p_gr

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 04:57 PM

.


Edited by danis_p_gr, 22 April 2018 - 05:11 PM.

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#35 MTinsley

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 04:57 PM

Some of the posts in the MT candidacy topic (http://forum.strateg...se-let-us-know/) have been moved here.

 

Please use this topic for discussion.

 

You may use the other topic for nominations.



#36 danis_p_gr

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 05:03 PM

I don' t see Napoleon' s post here? Why not?



#37 MTinsley

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 05:05 PM

Danis, it's here: http://forum.strateg...dates/?p=452635



#38 danis_p_gr

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 05:08 PM

 

My apologies then!


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#39 steelers

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 05:33 PM

Then, you should do the forum and the MT a big favor by submitting the names of those you admire for the nominations, and then allow those you are advocating to speak for themselves–they may accept it happily to your surprise, or they may Calvin Coolidge it. In any event, I do not see the harm in offering something so positive.

 I wouldn't want to put anyone on the spot publicly without first knowing if they had any interest.  But I think there are several people who are respected by almost everyone in the community.  To me, the main things that would be desired in a new MT member would be:

 

1) Someone who actually wants the job, not someone pressed into it out of obligation

2) Someone who can commit to the time necessary.

3) A basic knowledge of the forum and the game.

4) Ideally, someone who is non-controversial.  Someone who is above the fray, that is looked at as a fair and impartial person and has everyone's respect.

 

I hope I'm wrong and a number of good candidates are interested.


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#40 Napoleon 1er

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 05:41 PM

I like to thank nortrom for having taken time to answer my questions which were not necessarily easy questions. MT has to decide but after having read the answers I personnally have no objections to having nortrom part of MT ... most important is that he can team up with GLS, MTinsley and Major Nelson.

... but i would abstain from voting, let the community choose and do what they want.


Edited by Napoleon 1er, 22 April 2018 - 05:55 PM.

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