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#181 Napoleon 1er

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Posted 03 May 2018 - 07:11 AM

Great post roeczak. Also good post from nortrom above answering some questions made.
Just a remark valid for all ... having been in MT i don't see how joining MT is a necessary condition to improve the site. It has proven not to be. In my opinion the only right way to have things changed in the software is first to have a clear idea what to do ... and this is the real first obstacle, when you see all questions raised in the isf rules implementation poll you can also see that the more voters you have the more different opinions you have. Without consensus from the community on "what to do?" Neither MT nor anybody else will be able to change something.
2nd thing is to have direct contact, preferably in dutch, with the site owners and talk face to face with them and negotiate a plan on how to move forward. This has however already been done fee years ago through NTactical who did even offer his programming competencies to site owners but without success cause funding was missing. Nevertheless if some people of our community have the same competencies and want to try again please just do it.
So in summary being a new member of MT will not change anything in thus regard in my opinion. What really needs to be done is to create a dedicated task force for that. Tgis should be a team who knows what to do, who knows the isf rules, who speaks dutch, who has real life negotiation capabilities, who is living close to site owners for facilitating face to face discussions and who finally represents and defends the interests of our community.
This team in my opinion should be made by:
Morx: experienced leader, has professional negotiation skills, excellent command of isf rules, perfect dutch, probable availability to travel in holland where necessary to meet with site owners
Nortrom: excellent command of isf rules, perfect dutch, probable availability to travel where necessary in holland to meet with site owners, shows a very high level of motivation to accomplish this task, even he may appear overly egocentric sometimes he is also sometimes very humble in his transparent answers which proofs passion
GaryLShelton: senior representative of MT, has worked 100s of hours on the rules and in particular those related to isf, very high credibility in front of admins, very good knowledge of community concerns overall, great passion for servicing this website as volunteer, representative of "the international dimension on stratego.com"
Major Nelson: as representative of MT he can gain credibility from admins, young talented stratego player he can be the voice of the youngs, representative of the greek ... biggest subcommunity on stratego.com, strong willing to make things moving forward
Player XXX: programming expert he can offer his competency to help implementing the changes after morx will have negotiated with site owners to give their authorization to proceed, whoever reads this having this competency please announce yourself
Player YYY: any additional player as maybe desired

... so i hope i have been able to convince that adding new people to MT will not solve the problem ... what you need is creating this dedicated task force focusing on programming changes and starting by defining "what is it exactly that is to be changed".
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If you don't know where you go ... you have a lot of chance to arrive elsewhere ...

#182 KissMyCookie

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Posted 03 May 2018 - 08:26 AM

Greetings, roeczak. Thank you for sharing your personal thoughts on recent events and expressing them so very well. Most of what you have written I can agree with and appreciate.

 

I will not say but one item that I respectfully disagree with and that is this statement:

 

...(Lonello's initial post that caused all this to begin (or go public) comes to mind). The way in which they did this, twisting every single word Lonello said to open multiple supposed cases...

 

They did not twist lonello's every single word. lonello had made wild accusations without foundation, he had exaggerated beyond any acceptable level, and there are bold faced lies laced throughout his manipulative posts–his vicious attack upon GaryLShelton was unwarranted and also full of lies and exaggerations which I exposed:

 

http://forum.strateg...e-2#entry453434

 

In any event, your post is most welcome here and it is time for the community to come together and continue the work on developing this Stratego site, both forum and game-side.



#183 Nortrom

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Posted 03 May 2018 - 08:41 AM

Roeczak,
 
Thanks for your thorough post. I feel this sums up a lot of things.
 
Initially I didn't consider running as MT candidate, Morx may have, I don't know. For quite some time I've felt the current ways are ineffective and slow, but you know, I appreciate the volunteering they do. Until recently, I was not aware of how stagnant the MT actually had become. Something that had to be broken, somehow. 
 
I won't make it a secret that I was surprised to see lonello appointed back in the days, but well, we all have different opinions about things, right? no reason to seek someone's removal, at all. When a discussion about the current situation of the MT was started, some players (including me) expressed their dissatisfaction and were trying to engage in a fruitful discussion. Until lonello came with his vicious attacks trying to discredit the main voice of criticism (me) came by. 
 
The MT has shown to be ineffective at taking care of lonello's attacks, causing more dissatisfaction from the community as a whole. If lonello didn't show his true colours, any poll against his MT position would maybe have gotten a few votes. Despite not having been a fan of lonello, even I wouldn't have supported his removal if there was no serious wrongdoing.
 
I can understand why lonello didn't want to step down, it's a loss of face. It had become a ego issue and matter of principle. I think many would have done the same in his case, not that this makes it right.
 
Obviously I can't judge whether MT was on good terms with Morx or me. I haven't been exactly involved in the APO discussion. I wouldn't be surprised if some members of MT were unhappy with the way I tried to make some issues apparent to them.
 
"You know for one who openly talks, there is a hundred behind who are quitting because all this chasing, abusing and cheating and all demotes the game to just a child's one." couldn't have said this myself any better.
 
Thanks for the trust, roeczak.
 
You should take a few lottoing lessons from a friend of yours! ;)
 
Nortrom

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#184 Don_Homer

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Posted 06 May 2018 - 01:50 PM

Based on the poll http://forum.strateg...-not-anonymous/ I feel there is not enough support for me to continue my 'fight' for an MT function. I wouldnt want to enter MT when the majority of the community does not support it. I want to thank the users who votes for me for their support and loyalty. Also I want to thank people who gave me supporting messages throughout this period. 

 

I mention the 'fight' which I ended upon in. At least I feel like it. There is a lot of negativity on this forum the last months and since my applying for the MT function I was the main target. Im totally done with all these attacks and negativity. So I will take some time to relax.

 

Now i am not a candidate anymore I think Napoleon is the best candate (by far). He has proven to be a great MT member and stayed calm all the time in the middle of a big storm. 


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#185 Lonello

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Posted 07 May 2018 - 10:17 AM

Yesterday it was both mine and Don's birthday, as again this year it fell on the same day. Amazing, dozens times in a row! So we had a little talk and I heared he was fed up with it and all the bad innuendo and leaving the warmongering too... although abdicated I do want to put in my last pennies here.

Apparantly in the now closed poll-thread he was accused with the most outragious accusations.

"Don_Homer-Posted 2 days ago

Everyone with half a brain can see that several people (at the moment mainly Nortrom and Kmc) are attacking me and this is part of a strategy, organised or not. It became more severe at the moment I applied for the MT function."

As clearly explained in the thread I erected myself, I was resigning shortly, so why would we be planning my return for these last few weeks I had left? Yes, I had wanted to help out during the coming hiatusses of MT-members and I had wanted to help out WTT as my last chore as for the fun the Teamtournament is (or is supposed to be, especially being the WC) as I felt the responsibility there, being the one who had to do the chores there these last few years, so I was just rounding some stuff up.

And yes, most importantly, I felt the strong obligation to see MT through the Nortrom/Morx war machine. You don't abandon ship when it gets tough. That's why I couldn't be a lame duck and announce anything publicly (only hinting) as the Nortrom/Morx machine would only have been fueled up waiting for the day. As things went, it was actually working: with a month of silence and decreasing noice of the PB-clique... but then... well, we all know what happened.

So this has all nothing to do with what's mentioned in this thread. I am a strong principled man and have done many Teamjobs in my life. All terms completed (very satisfactory too ofcourse) on which I gave over the peddle for I firmly believe 'everybody' needs to pitch in and do some chores. This is by the life of me I do not understand why Napoleon would want to re-enter... he has had his 4 years and it's now time for others to pitch in.

My principles go far. I've read roeczak's piece and want to highlight a funny story about it: I actually challenged Nortrom about two years ago to stop complaining, but to do something. He then was immediately very defensive, that he already had done a lot on Metaforge, etcetera. And Morx, I personally in MT actually engaged a few months ago to take on the real issues on the gameside, as described by roeczak's (and my) fellow chessplayer. This was just before Gary switched his vote on APO and Morx was so enraged he ambushed Major into resignation and all hell was loose. But at the time, Morx was really accepting on pitching in.

Anyway, my point being I would be the first to animate them both joining that Taskforce as described by Napoleon. And I can honestly say on all the points brought by roeczak I have been the animating one, the bumping one in MT, all these years, and it was actually my one condition to even join MT back in the day. To solve these issues. But I failed, and I grew tired since nothing can get done about it. If you would ever become an MT-member, roeczak, you would see that in my mind I had already left MT, only making one word verdicts if my vote was at all needed in the mostly petty stuff MT faces, and the big stuff we couldn't accomplish anything.

So that Taskforce sounds great. I tried hard myself, and we were in a better position then as the game was still supposedly Beta so in development, but we still couldn't accomplish anything... which is why it's pretty delusional to think something can today. But the Taskforce I hope proves me wrong here! On MT however, anyone active in the warmongering ploys these last months is totally unsuited for the job. You are supposed to stop cyberbullying, not start it, and roeczak is right they twist every word you write and their farce cases starting with Napoleon apparantly stalking Nortrom were phenomenal.

But who to pick then is the hard question... the warmongerers mastered so well in excluding any acceptable candidate... I did predict it, but couldn't prevent it: nobody would want to join MT in this negative atmosphere as created by the 1000+ posts which are even worse than the Korean bots we had last summer. I understand Losermaker, roeczak and Master Mind have been desperately asked but who can blaim them for denying the job? I still think, just as roeczak, that Max needs to be asked (or at least upgraded to Honoraries) since he hinted once he would want the job and he has the confidence of all camps.

Concluding, the fatigue is with MT but it's also with the entire community. Some are still desperately in hopes for Change but many, many good contributors have left disappointed. They pleaded to put a stop to all the divisive warmongering. Some pleaded more than once. But ofcourse, all of that got covered in the fillibuster the 1000 posts and were soon forgotten.

I did have the stamina for the job, now others need to proove they have it too. I count these as the most important requirements: http://forum.strateg...us/#entry453381 . Some say I am myself even TOO honest, TOO transparant. Well, OK, that's me. I say it as it is and in the future I need to be uncorrupted and proud on what I did. Yes, this makes me incompatible with Mob people indeed. If I see members attacked or bullied, I jump in to protect. Since you can't help anything game wise, this is the only thing you can actually do for the community. For instance the petition I did with Fairway for KMC/Swallow... did Morx/Nortrom even say 1 word to help them? Even hinted they were on their side? Not a single letter.

Then astros is full on 7up/imperium bullying a Jewish kid away from this side. I fought that Nazi hard, but astros still feels I had been much too soft on him, he told us as MT very recently in PM. Then however astros does vote in favor of Nortrom, the man who so graciously accepted imperium hailing him in when it suited him fine recently in more witch hunt attacks, and who as Mogul is now also bumping Nortrom as the last vote in the poll.

Oh well, as long as everybody can still look into the mirror and own up to what they did, it is all fine by me. And the community, plus MT as the authority about exactly this, needs to know what characters the Mobsters have but ofcourse they already knew. I have answered, in (maybe too much) length, any and every question of all communitymembers these last few weeks (the genuine ones ofcourse) but now I've abdicated there is no responsibility anymore so I advise everybody to Have Fun in the game and then maybe the community will recover in the long run. Lo out.


Lo

#186 Nortrom

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Posted 07 May 2018 - 12:04 PM

Does it help you sleep at night when you consider yourself "abdicated" while in reality you have a 75% community vote and a 100% MT vote against you going?
 
As for donello, he has done nothing but sticking his nose into business that have nothing to do with him. Ignoring any facts and only sticking up for his 'friend', you.
 
It is extremely ironic to see DH weeping. Napoleon/Dislike/KMC asked me all sorts of questions, I tried to answer those to my ability. DH starts crying the moment KMC asks him one critical question. If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.
 
It also is rather ironic you state you wanted to help the WTT to ensure the fun. Plenty of people I have spoken to, that were unfortunate enough to having to work with you were absolutely sick and fed up of your arrogant patronizing ways. In the eyes of the public you've always tried to appear as the "reasonable guy" etc. The people who had the displeasure of having to deal with you in the background know better.
 
Perhaps Napoleon wants to re-enter as he wouldn't have to deal with you anymore.
 
Considering you're upset with the fact nothing ever got done on the MT, I have some questions for you
 
1) Why did you not leave the unsuccessful MT earlier?
2) Why did you attack the people who were pointing out failures/weaknesses of the MT?
3) Why did you not side with the community as a means of getting things done?
4) You sound rather bitter from your time on MT, what do you think are the main reasons nothing ever gets done within the MT?
5) How do you think the community perceives the MT?
 
"Concluding, the fatigue is with MT but it's also with the entire community. Some are still desperately in hopes for Change but many, many good contributors have left disappointed" I'll make you this promise: Once appointed, I'll ensure things improve. If ineffective, I won't wait 4 years to leave it.

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#187 Morx

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 06:48 PM

And Morx, I personally in MT actually engaged a few months ago to take on the real issues on the gameside, as described by roeczak's (and my) fellow chessplayer. This was just before Gary switched his vote on APO and Morx was so enraged he ambushed Major into resignation and all hell was loose. But at the time, Morx was really accepting on pitching in.

 

From the large post with a lot of selective memory and lonellos own "unique view" on what actually happened, I pick this part.

 

Notice that Lonello suggests that I ambushed Major Nelson into resignation, same as he did when this whole conflict started. This time however all the communication that can be used as evidence is actually on the forum pointing the other way.

 

I just hope that sometime Lonello can accept that a large majority of the forum users and of the sitting MT had enough of this sort of communication.



#188 Morx

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 12:55 PM

@Nortrom:

 

chair-empty-seat1.gif

 

@MT: Please see First Official Forum Federation, resolution 3.



#189 roeczak

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 03:10 PM

@Pim/Dennis : If any of you becomes MT what happens with the WCO?
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#190 Nortrom

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 03:15 PM

Nothing special. The WCO will continue. We may or may not add some extra people to the team (in whatever role), but this will be regardless of the colour of my/our names :).

 

@ Morx: Nice chair. Not a throne?! ;)


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#191 rgillis783

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 04:33 PM

Yes there is an open chair at the MT table. A throne would be for someone for a long time. How long MT will it be for an announcement of your teams open spot(s)---any idea ? Please clue us in on the duration of the moderators position please.


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#192 roeczak

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 11:25 PM

So MT/TC is a conflict, but MT/WCO is not? 


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#193 Nortrom

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 03:54 AM

I feel mt/tc is a lot of tasks/duties. mt/wco would be a challenge too and not something for the meek. I do, generally speaking, advocate separation of powers.


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