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Proposal Log Discussion 5 - Champions League Format


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#1 TheOptician

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Posted 30 March 2018 - 05:01 PM

malcom.jansen has proposed that Champions League groups be restricted to a maximum size of 4 with the reasoning that this will make the competition a more special experience.

 

You can see his proposal here:

 

http://forum.strateg...og/#entry449979

 

malcom.jansen - Are you able to provide more detail on how the tournament would operate as the number of participants varies?

 

(Forum Members are invited to join in this discussion)



#2 TheOptician

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 07:44 PM

astros,

 

Are you able to give a summary of how exactly this tournament would work with eg 47 participants?



#3 astros

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 05:22 PM

Will do on Saturday.
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#4 astros

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Posted 18 April 2018 - 05:52 AM

Eliminate the last 3 players to sign up. Top 22 advance from group stage, 6 byes in the first knockout round, simple single elimination after that.

Or, as I previously suggested, set a hard cap at 32 players and offer a separate Europa League.

Edited by astros, 18 April 2018 - 05:52 AM.

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#5 roeczak

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Posted 18 April 2018 - 06:44 AM

I don't like eliminating players , nor do I like a 15-player tournament.

The EL idea is good but IMO only if we had 60+ players
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#6 The Prof

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Posted 18 April 2018 - 07:13 AM

 Top 22 advance from group stage, 6 byes in the first knockout round, simple single elimination after that.

 

With 22 players, you would need 10 byes in the first round in order to have 16 players for the next round.



#7 Henry domerkant

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Posted 18 April 2018 - 07:52 AM

I don't like eliminating players , nor do I like a 15-player tournament.

The EL idea is good but IMO only if we had 60+ players

Maybe you can do a "16 players ch.l for top players
And the remaining europa leuage( it is good to have 32+ there but not necessarily

#8 TheOptician

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Posted 18 April 2018 - 08:55 AM

Eliminate the last 3 players to sign up. Top 22 advance from group stage, 6 byes in the first knockout round, simple single elimination after that.

Or, as I previously suggested, set a hard cap at 32 players and offer a separate Europa League.

How would you determine:

The 3 players eliminated pre-group stage
The 10 players (from 11 groups) that qualify straight to the Last 8
For the other 12, who plays who?

And for the Europa idea:

The 32 players that make the Champ League

#9 Fks

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Posted 18 April 2018 - 05:18 PM

The tournament format seems fine as it is.


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#10 astros

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Posted 18 April 2018 - 05:28 PM

With 22 players, you would need 10 byes in the first round in order to have 16 players for the next round.



You are correct I goofed up the math.

How would you determine:
The 3 players eliminated pre-group stage
The 10 players (from 11 groups) that qualify straight to the Last 8
For the other 12, who plays who?
And for the Europa idea:
The 32 players that make the Champ League

It is possible but the format gets messy. Therefore, I would like to focus on the separate Europa League option. In this format:

The top 16 players based on some ranking system are given automatic CL spots. Depending on the number of registrants, there are one or two rounds of knockout games to determine the final 16 CL spots. All players that do not qualify for the CL are placed in the Europa League.

The Europa League could be further supplemented with players not advancing past the group stage of the CL.

My format would follow the pattern of the actual Champion and Europa Leagues.

This year there are 47 participants. The top 17 would get automatic CL spots. The remaining 30 would play one round of knockout games for the 15 remaining CL spots.

Edited by astros, 18 April 2018 - 05:31 PM.

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#11 TheOptician

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Posted 18 April 2018 - 05:46 PM

How would you determine who plays who in the Qualifying round?

#12 astros

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Posted 18 April 2018 - 05:48 PM

Extend the ranking system and seed matches accordingly ie 18 v 47, 19 v 46 etc

Edited by astros, 18 April 2018 - 05:48 PM.

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#13 TheOptician

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Posted 18 April 2018 - 06:45 PM

My initial thoughts:

Potential advantages of the CL/Europa proposal:

Champions League format is traditional

Each game in the Group Phase takes on slightly more significance (as only 2 qualify)

Europa provides a unique arena where the competition is likely to be contended by the middle-ranked players (as opposed to the usual suspects)

Potential disadvantages

The majority of the lower ranked players would miss out on the unique opportunity to play a 'top player'

It is one step further to simply 'give' the top players automatic qualification (as opposed to just seeding them). Does this contradict the TC principle to be fair to all? It is likely that the CL participants would pretty much resemble the Top 32 of whatever ranking system was adopted. This increases the importance of an improved ranking system (and TCs dependence on it) which isn't even in place yet.

Qualification is decided on only one game

-----

This would probably be a suitable proposal to poll the community on. I suspect that players opinion may be related to where they are likely to be ranked.

It comes down to what one wants from a Champions League. This proposal will certainly create a competition of two tiers with different strengths, and the Champions League will move towards resembling an actual Chanpions League.

But is that what the players want?

#14 astros

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Posted 18 April 2018 - 07:14 PM

The TC hosts 8 tournaments a year, 6 of which do not seed players. I am normally ranked above 850 and I still get matched with a sub-600 player in about 1 out of every 5 games. Plenty of top players and I play numerous friendlies against lower ranked players. Therefore, the CL is far from the only venue for new players to face top flight competition, so this should not be a concern.

Low ranked players can still qualify for the CL they just need to win a game or two first. Additionally, if the EL is implemented then they may still get to play against a high platinum in that event.

Qualification could be a best if 3 instead of a single game. However, any ranking will be made up if multiple games, so implicitly more than one game goes into qualification.

As for giving automatic bids, unless more than 64 players register, which has never happened for any site event, then some people will automatically qualify. I propose the top 16 get automatic bids because these players would easily beat the bottom 16 anyways, particularly in a best of 3.
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#15 Nortrom

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Posted 18 April 2018 - 07:19 PM


As for giving automatic bids, unless more than 64 players register, which has never happened for any site event, 

WCO had 74 I believe. May have been 72.


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#16 astros

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Posted 18 April 2018 - 07:28 PM

WCO had 74 I believe. May have been 72.


Fair enough, I still have no doubt that you or Hielco couldn't smash a silver player in a best of 3.
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#17 TheOptician

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Posted 18 April 2018 - 08:49 PM

WCO had 74 I believe. May have been 72.


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#18 astros

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Posted 20 April 2018 - 07:32 PM

Charlie, what is your opinion of my critique of the disadvantages?
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#19 roeczak

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Posted 20 April 2018 - 08:46 PM

Astros, how would eg a 15-player EL work? I think this idea is good (although not nessecarily better than thecurrent system) but it would need more playera to enroll to work properly.
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#20 scottrussia

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Posted 20 April 2018 - 09:26 PM

Count one participant that will not consider playing in a 2nd tier tournament.

 

If you can't put your army on the battlefield against whomever you draw, then YOU are the one that doesn't belong in the tournament.

 

And what are the 8 tournaments the TC is running?  I thought there were 4?


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