Jump to content


Photo

Alternative Stratego Rankings (ASR)


  • Please log in to reply
56 replies to this topic

#41 astros

astros

    Stratego TM

  • NASF Committee
  • 861 posts
  • Coat of arms
  • Platinum Captain

Posted 11 April 2018 - 07:39 PM

I do like the sound of the HIPPO rating though.

https://imgur.com/a/lmMgN


I'm in love with Stacy's mom.

#42 Master Mind

Master Mind

    Major

  • Tournament Manager
  • 1,263 posts
  • Coat of arms
  • Platinum General

Posted 11 April 2018 - 07:40 PM

>so when playa1 forfeited from his rehab game he did in fact got more ranking points than he would have had if he would have played and lost that game ... right?

 

That's not completely correct. By forfeiting his rehab game playa1 did not gain nor lose any ranking points, but if playa1 would have played and lost that game his rating would indeed drop.

 

>furthermore if a player finishes 1st in wco with 2 games lost, 1st in winter with 1 game lost and 1st in pro ladder with 0 game lost he would be ranked less than a player who did not play neither wco nor winter tournament but would finish 5th in pro ladder with 1 game lost, right?

 

You can not tell only from tournament results how someone's rating will change. It's not only the result that matters, there are 4 other factors influencing someone's rating: your own Rating Deviation, your own Rating, your opponent's Rating Deviation and your opponent's Rating.



#43 Master Mind

Master Mind

    Major

  • Tournament Manager
  • 1,263 posts
  • Coat of arms
  • Platinum General

Posted 11 April 2018 - 07:43 PM

And in case you didn't know MasterMind.....................

 

SPARTAN WARRIORS ARE ON THE MARCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

How could I ever miss this, being posted in nearly all of your posts? ;)

 

It always surprises me how long your march takes, your warriors already marched around earth 4 times I think...



#44 Napoleon 1er

Napoleon 1er

    General

  • Honorary members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,741 posts
  • Coat of arms
  • Platinum General

Posted 11 April 2018 - 09:57 PM

 

>so when playa1 forfeited from his rehab game he did in fact got more ranking points than he would have had if he would have played and lost that game ... right?

 

That's not completely correct. By forfeiting his rehab game playa1 did not gain nor lose any ranking points, but if playa1 would have played and lost that game his rating would indeed drop.

 

>furthermore if a player finishes 1st in wco with 2 games lost, 1st in winter with 1 game lost and 1st in pro ladder with 0 game lost he would be ranked less than a player who did not play neither wco nor winter tournament but would finish 5th in pro ladder with 1 game lost, right?

 

You can not tell only from tournament results how someone's rating will change. It's not only the result that matters, there are 4 other factors influencing someone's rating: your own Rating Deviation, your own Rating, your opponent's Rating Deviation and your opponent's Rating.

 

 

... yeah but this is all theory .... frankly if somebody finishes 1st in 3 tournaments he shall de facto be on top of the overall ranking list after those 3 tournaments. No other player shall be better ranked than him otherwise the ranking system will look a really strange one...  if you win 10 $ on day 1, 20 $ on day 2 and 30 $ on day 3 and on these 3 days you have always been the person of a community winning most money daily then at the end of the 3 days you are de facto the richest with 60 $ ....


If you don't know where you go ... you have a lot of chance to arrive elsewhere ...

#45 roeczak

roeczak

    Captain

  • Tournament Manager
  • 971 posts
  • Coat of arms
  • Platinum Marshal

Posted 11 April 2018 - 11:09 PM

My Athenian Immortals are ready for your Spartan Warriors, Scott. Be afraid... B)

Someone said that many many moons ago and was slammed by Spartan Warriors twice. 


  • scottrussia likes this

If you enjoy stratego you might want to subscribe to Roeczak. Member of Stratego Captains Club. Actively trying to promote the game and would like to help in any activity towards that goal. Highest Rating : 962 (Platinum Marshal)


#46 Major Nelson

Major Nelson

    Major

  • Honorary members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,183 posts
  • Coat of arms
  • Platinum Marshal

Posted 11 April 2018 - 11:11 PM

Someone said that many many moons ago and was slammed by Spartan Warriors twice.

Maybe another Athenian, but only my warriors are immortal!

 

THE IMMORTAL ATHENIANS ARE ON THE MARCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


  • GaryLShelton and Fks like this
Winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is.

#47 Master Mind

Master Mind

    Major

  • Tournament Manager
  • 1,263 posts
  • Coat of arms
  • Platinum General

Posted 17 July 2018 - 07:28 PM

Updated: Rating Period 2 (Champions League 2018, PRO Perfect 2018)

Date: 17-7-2018

 

Alternative Stratego Rankings:

fVn4dWq.png

 

Link Ranking Table: https://imgur.com/fVn4dWq

Link Spreadsheet Rating Period 2: https://www.dropbox.... 2018.xlsx?dl=0

Link Spreadsheet Ranking Table: https://www.dropbox.... 2018.xlsx?dl=0


  • TheOptician and Major Nelson like this

#48 Master Mind

Master Mind

    Major

  • Tournament Manager
  • 1,263 posts
  • Coat of arms
  • Platinum General

Posted 19 January 2019 - 07:18 PM

Updated: Rating Period 3 (Pyramid League, Junior Tournament, WCO R1-3)
Date: 19-1-2019

 

Alternative Stratego Rankings: 

mtM6DEN.png

 

Link Ranking Table: https://imgur.com/mtM6DEN

Link Spreadsheet Rating Period 3: https://www.dropbox....opbox.xlsx?dl=0

Link Spreadsheet Ranking Table RP 3: https://www.dropbox....opbox.xlsx?dl=0



#49 Master Mind

Master Mind

    Major

  • Tournament Manager
  • 1,263 posts
  • Coat of arms
  • Platinum General

Posted 19 January 2019 - 07:29 PM

Rating Period 3 Statistics:

 

New players: 22
Players playing: 90

Games played: 311

Most games played: Fks (17)

Amount of draws: 21 (6,7%)

Most increased rating: Yellowat (120 pts)

Most decreased rating: dutchkillers (-288 pts)

No rating change: Moghedien (1487)

Lowest Rating Deviation: TheOptician (31)

 

Overall statistics:

 

Total players on ASR: 119

Most represented country: Greece (46)

Most represented country top 10: Netherlands (6)

Most games played: Henry domerkant (50!)

Most tournaments played: Henry domerkant, Fks (8)


  • dutchkillers likes this

#50 Losermaker

Losermaker

    Captain

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 847 posts
  • Coat of arms
  • Platinum Marshal

Posted 19 January 2019 - 09:25 PM

How on earth am I #29 there? does # of games played largely affect this or something?



#51 UnladenSwallow

UnladenSwallow

    Scout

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 141 posts
  • Coat of arms
  • Silver Captain

Posted 19 January 2019 - 09:52 PM

How on earth am I #29 there? does # of games played largely affect this or something?

 

Cause you're a noob. 


  • Losermaker and TheOptician like this

#52 Master Mind

Master Mind

    Major

  • Tournament Manager
  • 1,263 posts
  • Coat of arms
  • Platinum General

Posted 19 January 2019 - 10:39 PM

How on earth am I #29 there? does # of games played largely affect this or something?

 

You had a pretty high RD (261), because you didn't play in Rating Period 1 and 2. This means your rating was not very stable. In Rating Period 3, you drew against Henry domerkant, a player rated significantly lower than your (1532). This draw combined with your unstable rating gave you the huge drop to 29th place. With the next update (WCO R4-8) you'll probably increase a lot again, having good results. 


  • Don_Homer likes this

#53 Master Mind

Master Mind

    Major

  • Tournament Manager
  • 1,263 posts
  • Coat of arms
  • Platinum General

Posted 4 weeks ago

An important part in the Glicko ranking system I use for the ASR is the determination of 'c', a value used to calculate a player's new Rating Deviation if that player has not participated in any tournament during a specific Rating Period. For this calculation I need to determine how much time would need to pass before a rating for a typical player becomes as uncertain as an unrated player. 

 

Personally I think this should be somewhat like 2-3 years. What do you think?



#54 TheOptician

TheOptician

    Marshal

  • Tournament Manager
  • 3,284 posts
  • Coat of arms
  • Platinum General

Posted 4 weeks ago

>For this calculation I need to determine how much time would need to pass before a rating for a typical player becomes as uncertain as an unrated player.

Remind me - what does a player need to do to become rated?

#55 Master Mind

Master Mind

    Major

  • Tournament Manager
  • 1,263 posts
  • Coat of arms
  • Platinum General

Posted 4 weeks ago

.Remind me - what does a player need to do to become rated?

 

Play a tournament game...



#56 TheOptician

TheOptician

    Marshal

  • Tournament Manager
  • 3,284 posts
  • Coat of arms
  • Platinum General

Posted 4 weeks ago

I would say that the answer to that question depends on the player.

Let’s say that Hielco (who has played almost 200 tournament games) stopped playing for 3 years, and let’s compare that with a player who only played a few games and then stopped for a few years (eg Napoleon 2eme).

A lot longer would have to pass for Hielcos rating to become as unreliable as Napoleon 2emes rating - simply because Hielcos is much more established.

What if the constant involved the minimum RD of a player (ie could the number of years be 300/Min RD)

#57 Master Mind

Master Mind

    Major

  • Tournament Manager
  • 1,263 posts
  • Coat of arms
  • Platinum General

Posted 4 weeks ago

This indeed is a good point, I had not yet thought of. Instead of Minimum RD I would just use the RD at the time of the calculation. 

 

I'm in favour of using rating periods instead of years, as this makes the calculation a lot easier. In the future, I will have 4 ASR updates a year, so 1 year consists of 4 rating periods. First we need to set a minimum to the amount of Rating Periods a player has before his rating is as uncertain as an unrated player. I think 2 RP's would be fine. (so if the maximum RD is 300, we should divide 300 * 2 with the old RD to know how many RP's should pass). Now to determine this number, we should look what the maximum RD can be after playing one tournament game.

 

The new RD is calculated by ((1/(OldRD)^2+1/(d)^2)^-1)^0,5, where d (in case of 1 game played) is (q^2*(g(RD)^2*E*(1-E)))^-1. These formulas as well as the formulas for g(RD) and E, can also be found here (http://www.glicko.ne...icko/glicko.pdf). To set a maximum RD, I first looked how your opponents RD and the Result influenced your New RD.

 

Spoiler

 

Following from this table, the result does not influence the new RD, but a lower ORD will lead to a higher New RD. For the minimum of the RD we should set a threshold value. Dr. Mark. E. Glickman (the founder of the Glicko system) writes the following about this: One practical problem with the Glicko system is that when a player competes very frequently, his/her rating stops changing appreciably which reflects that the RD is very small. This may sometimes prevent a player's rating from changing substantially when the player is truly improving. I would therefore recommend that an RD never drop below a threshold value, such as 30, so that ratings can change appreciably even in a relatively short time.' I think a threshold of 30 is fair enough for the ASR as well (currently TheOptician has an RD of 31, with 42 games played in 4 RP's / 1 year). 

 

Now we know this, we can extend the table with different ratings, to see how the opponent's rating influences your RD. 

 

Spoiler

 

The New RD reaches its maximum when a player plays either against a very high-rated opponent or a very low-rated opponent. (https://imgur.com/6qKRNZ6). This is not very surprising though, because you cannot tell a lot about one's rating if he wins against the lowest-rated player or loses to the highest-rated player. Although your New RD will never be 350, it asymptotically approaches the value of 350. Assuming the maximum RD in this context after playing one game is 350, and 2 Rating Periods is the minimum before someone's RD is 350 again, we would need to apply 700/Old RD to calculate how many Rating Periods would need to pass before someone's RD is 350 again. With the lowest RD being 30, the maximum amount of rating periods to pass would be 23 (rounded off, corresponding with almost 6 years)

 

Spoiler

 

So for a player with the lowest RD possible (30), it would take 23 RP's before his/her rating is back to 350 (https://imgur.com/iEyvgpm)


  • TheOptician and NTactical-Reboot like this




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users