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Macedonia naming dispute


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Poll: Macedonia naming dispute (20 member(s) have cast votes)

Which is the best solution for the new name of FYROM? (Write your opinion)

  1. Macedonia (3 votes [15.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 15.00%

  2. Macedonia with qualifier (Northern Macedonia, New Macedonia, Slavic Macedonia) (1 votes [5.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.00%

  3. Name that NOT contains the term Macedonia (16 votes [80.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 80.00%

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#21 astros

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 04:01 AM

Your expectation about being (a bit) criticized for your certain response was right. ;)

Many people above expressed their opinions and feelings concerning this serious issue and I find them all acceptable, in spite of disagreeing with some of them.
What I find unacceptable is calling ridiculous our refusal, as Greeks, not to recognize to the Skopjans the "right" to call themselves "Macedonians"​.

Personally, I think it's OK to admire someone else's history, but it is something totally different and -as I see it- unacceptable trying to make it yours by ignoring the historical truth. And from the history, we know that Macedonia was always connected with the Ancient-Greek civilization and its origins. In my opinion, the Skopjians should deal with this at some point.

Furthermore, Greek's government decision about vetoing NATO membership in 2008 was not "childish".
It was a brave one.
And it would be very nice if we could realize the difference between a nationalist behavior and a patriotic one.

And last but not least, we actually don't care about the new name of FYROM or how they should be called. That is not our own business for sure and we shouldn't be involved in this. What we do care is that the term "Macedonia" will never be included in their country's name. That's our only claim !!!

Kind regards,
FGP_

There is no question that the Republic of Macedonia is in the geographic region of Macedonia. Considering the history of the area, the Slavic Macedonians have lived there for over 1,000 years. Greece did not control Macedonia at all from the mid 14th century to 1913, and the region was not fully hellenized until 1923 when the Turkish population was forcefully expatriated. In my opinion, the Slavic Macedonians have stronger ties to the region even if they have no connection to the Ancient Greek Kingdom of Macedon, from which they have appropriated parts of their history.

Furthermore, the UN's IJC agreed that Greece's decision to veto Macedonia's application to NATO violated the 1995 Interim Accord. You suggest that this action was brave. However, I see it as bullying a nation that has no political or economic recourse against Greece because you dislike their name. That is school yard behavior and "childish" for a first world country to be engaging in.

To a certain extent, I am being argumentative to promote an actual discussion. Otherwise, this topic would be pointless given the demographics of the forum. I can appreciate Greece's anger regarding the Republic of Macedonia's cultural propaganda surrounding Ancient Greece. However, I fully support the Republic of Macedonia's right to self-determination.

Edited by malcom.jansen, 20 January 2018 - 05:07 AM.

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I'm in love with Stacy's mom.

#22 Lonello

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 10:42 AM

To a certain extent, I am being argumentative to promote an actual discussion.

Wow, you seem to know a lot about this stuff. Do you know American politics too? They have a President that today is 1 year in office... check the topic about that too on this forumpart if you're interested in actual discussions :).

 

About this poll, I'm not going to vote on the matter, I simply do not have any of the knowledge you all have in here. If there's going to be a poll on Varoufakis or something I'll be back ;)


Lo

#23 Aris1970

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Posted 22 January 2018 - 02:53 PM

There is no question that the Republic of Macedonia is in the geographic region of Macedonia. Considering the history of the area, the Slavic Macedonians have lived there for over 1,000 years. Greece did not control Macedonia at all from the mid 14th century to 1913, and the region was not fully hellenized until 1923 when the Turkish population was forcefully expatriated. In my opinion, the Slavic Macedonians have stronger ties to the region even if they have no connection to the Ancient Greek Kingdom of Macedon, from which they have appropriated parts of their history.

Furthermore, the UN's IJC agreed that Greece's decision to veto Macedonia's application to NATO violated the 1995 Interim Accord. You suggest that this action was brave. However, I see it as bullying a nation that has no political or economic recourse against Greece because you dislike their name. That is school yard behavior and "childish" for a first world country to be engaging in.

To a certain extent, I am being argumentative to promote an actual discussion. Otherwise, this topic would be pointless given the demographics of the forum. I can appreciate Greece's anger regarding the Republic of Macedonia's cultural propaganda surrounding Ancient Greece. However, I fully support the Republic of Macedonia's right to self-determination.

 

 

MACEDONIA MEANS GREECE !  :)


Edited by Aris1970, 27 June 2018 - 09:58 PM.

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#24 The Achaean

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 10:55 AM

There is no question that the Republic of Macedonia is in the geographic region of Macedonia. Considering the history of the area, the Slavic Macedonians have lived there for over 1,000 years. Greece did not control Macedonia at all from the mid 14th century to 1913, and the region was not fully hellenized until 1923 when the Turkish population was forcefully expatriated. In my opinion, the Slavic Macedonians have stronger ties to the region even if they have no connection to the Ancient Greek Kingdom of Macedon, from which they have appropriated parts of their history.

Furthermore, the UN's IJC agreed that Greece's decision to veto Macedonia's application to NATO violated the 1995 Interim Accord. You suggest that this action was brave. However, I see it as bullying a nation that has no political or economic recourse against Greece because you dislike their name. That is school yard behavior and "childish" for a first world country to be engaging in.

To a certain extent, I am being argumentative to promote an actual discussion. Otherwise, this topic would be pointless given the demographics of the forum. I can appreciate Greece's anger regarding the Republic of Macedonia's cultural propaganda surrounding Ancient Greece. However, I fully support the Republic of Macedonia's right to self-determination.

 

 

How Skopjans have stronger claims about Macedonia when in all their history were a part of a bigger nation such as Croatia, Serbia, Ottoman Empire etc. They never consisted a unique nation!
 
From the other side Greeks always lived in the lands of Macedonia and greek language,religion and whole culture never disappeared!!!
It's an insult to say the have stronger claims when Greek soldiers and civilians known as Makedonomahoi like Pavlos Melas gave their life to unite Macedonia with motherland Greece.
 
You and others keep saying it's a childish behavior because you are focusing only to the name. 
It's not a simple dispute, when we have samples from all our neighbours for their irredentist aspirations. Greece has a great geostrategic position in the World Map while connecting West and East.
Every day Turkish ships and aircrafts violate our borders in Aegean and ask for updating the Treaty of Lausanne.
How can anyone assure that Skopjans don't act like that in the near future ?
 
The dispute must close with treaties between Greece and FYROM and other European nations, to secure our integrity in Macedonia regardless their new name. 
 
Ι don't believe the above issue is childish...

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#25 Aris1970

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 06:54 PM

                            rZE52dgl.jpg?1


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#26 The Achaean

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 09:08 PM

                            rZE52dgl.jpg?1

 

 

Aris, allow me to disagree with this picture.

The agreement has both pros and cons.

 

Maybe in the end, Greece will come out benefited.

 

As a said before the name its only a part of the dispute...


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#27 Don_Homer

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 09:10 PM

Agreements everywhere suddenly :)


Molto Bene, Thats a nica Donut !





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