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Fairway's Stratego Videos Part 2 (Commentary)


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#1 Fairway

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Posted 15 January 2018 - 02:00 PM

Hello everyone, 

 

I have decided to start recording games again, and this time I tried out commentary.

 

Talking while playing is definitely new for me, so let me know what you think. 

 

This one is a friendly game with Napoleon1er, also my first attempted "commentary" game:

https://www.youtube....h?v=vwX2qfQnads

 

This next one is a very close ranked match, probably one of the closest matches I have had on the website here if not ever:

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=zWHhxslXXDQ

 

Again let me know what you guys think about the commentary, not sure if I should continue it in the future, but I decided to give it a try.


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#2 Fairway

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Posted 15 January 2018 - 03:41 PM

I just realized I posted the wrong link for the ranked game, it has been fixed in the post, here is the new link :

https://www.youtube....h?v=zWHhxslXXDQ


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#3 KissMyCookie

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Posted 15 January 2018 - 04:57 PM

Greetings, Fairway! Thanks for the video uploads–as your voice betrays your youth, it is all the more impressive that you are commenting, and playing so very well. It also helps to know from your past uploads that you do not discriminate between those matches you won or lost–you are very generous to share both and to be so open about it. Kudos! I mention this because it makes watching your videos even more suspenseful–I do not know if it is a win or lose situation, so I am always rooting for you.

 

 

(Spoiler ahead)

By the endgame with Piet Jacob, you managed to get the drop on him by keeping yourself in the "person who MUST make a move" situation–he had to move which left him two choices: get out of position, or trade pieces.

 

 

(Back to business)

I look forward to seeing how you matched wits with Napoleon 1er ('1er' is an abbreviation for 'Premiere' if memory serves me correctly) as he is a highly skilled player with tremendous experience. Win or lose, I am trusting that you gave him 'a run for the money' as the old saying goes.

 

Please, keep sharing and uploading–it is terrific to see your development and watching you close in on platinum. Thank you, once again.



#4 OuweSok

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Posted 15 January 2018 - 07:13 PM

Just viewed the first game. lolnapoleon. Playing a friendly game vs a forum member with 350 ELO less and you play like a scared nit. Really dude, keep those Mr. Efficient tactics for games that matter and loosen up in games like this and amuse the public.


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#5 KissMyCookie

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Posted 15 January 2018 - 07:35 PM

Fairway–Don't waste your time listening to opinions from a someone who is not helping you. This kind of 'opinion' does nothing positive. You have constantly improved, you show a certain sense of daring, your commentary demonstrates that you have a natural feeling for this game, and...you are with the advantage of possessing youth, intelligence, and a sense of fun–having come to know you a bit better over time, I am very happy that you are still here, that you generously contribute to the forum, and that your enthusiasm is really infectious.  :D   So, in short, the old dude is just that...old, frustrated, and a know-it-all. Your match with Napoleon 1er is a match between you and one of the highest rated players on this site. You will best him one day as you learn more about his style. Keep playing him and you will surprise him one day with your victory.

 

P.S. GaryLShelton played the highly esteemed Losermaker...he won the match! Why? Well, he is clearly very skilled and was able to recognize things in his match that allowed him to make moves that would counter and defeat his opponent...you will do the same, and not by luck, but by your cleverness.

 

Keep up the GREAT work, Fairway! You are terrific!

 

KMC


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#6 OuweSok

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Posted 15 January 2018 - 08:18 PM

Viewed the second game, that was close indeed :)

 

At 3:00 you hit a scout with a sergeant that is protected by a known general. You basically can never win with this play. You want at least some info.

 

Nice work with colonel at 8 minutes, but I dislike you moving your right major. You don't need it, so do not move it.

 

At 26:36 Move major up or left. That is a serious blunder to allow that major in. You are materal up, don't want to risk him lottoing himself back in the game.


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#7 OuweSok

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Posted 15 January 2018 - 08:52 PM

Also note that his play to exchange colonels was correct. Your colonel had already ran away from the general previously, so it was known to not be your marshal.


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#8 KissMyCookie

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Posted 15 January 2018 - 09:51 PM

It is very interesting to note that Fairway is very glad to post videos of his matches whether he wins or loses–this is such an honest approach to things and we may learn from both scenarios.

 

It is so easy to sit back and to criticize someone's game-play on a video, but we all know that when we are in the midst of a match, it is a much different and a far more challenging event than merely sitting back in your chair at home making all sorts of observations without a buffer running out, or an opponent to deal with.

 

You've done a terrific job, Fairway!  :)  Please share more of your matches and with your commentary–it is very rewarding for all of us...at least most of us!  :D


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#9 TemplateRex

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Posted 15 January 2018 - 10:56 PM

Nice win in your second game! I have two remarks / questions:

 

1) He uses his last scout to get back to equal material, but he ends up in an endgame with the wrong "parity". I wonder whether he should have waited using his scout to let your other miners move first. He then has the option to make a waiting move with the scout and get into the right parity endgame (i.e. where he has the 2-square rule working in his favor) after finding the miner. What do the experts think?

2) At 48:41 when your last miner was in the central lane opposite his lieut, he should have moved down and dislodge your lieut from I3 and get his miner to G1 (most likely flag position). If I counted correctly, that gives you 14 moves with your miner. More than enough to get his real flag position, but not enough to test all his 7 remaining pieces. It would have given him an outside shot at a win.  


Edited by TemplateRex, 15 January 2018 - 10:59 PM.

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#10 Fairway

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Posted 15 January 2018 - 11:22 PM

Viewed the second game, that was close indeed :)

 

At 3:00 you hit a scout with a sergeant that is protected by a known general. You basically can never win with this play. You want at least some info.

 

Nice work with colonel at 8 minutes, but I dislike you moving your right major. You don't need it, so do not move it.

 

At 26:36 Move major up or left. That is a serious blunder to allow that major in. You are materal up, don't want to risk him lottoing himself back in the game.

3:00- I was assuming that this might be a decent piece, perhaps a major or a colonel, and I would use the sergeant to discover the info

 

26:36- Rewatching this, I totally agree with you, I was hoping to avoid an endgame scenario in which my major would be chasing his around the board, so I moved my major away hoping he would move next to it in an attempt to take it. Unfortunately he began to lotto, so... it wasn't a good idea. Thankfully my lotto was just as lucky ;)


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#11 Fairway

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Posted 15 January 2018 - 11:26 PM

Nice win in your second game! I have two remarks / questions:

 

1) He uses his last scout to get back to equal material, but he ends up in an endgame with the wrong "parity". I wonder whether he should have waited using his scout to let your other miners move first. He then has the option to make a waiting move with the scout and get into the right parity endgame (i.e. where he has the 2-square rule working in his favor) after finding the miner. What do the experts think?

2) At 48:41 when your last miner was in the central lane opposite his lieut, he should have moved down and dislodge your lieut from I3 and get his miner to G1 (most likely flag position). If I counted correctly, that gives you 14 moves with your miner. More than enough to get his real flag position, but not enough to test all his 7 remaining pieces. It would have given him an outside shot at a win.  

If he hadn't have used the scout to find my last minor in the endgame, It would be my leuit and 2 minors vs. his leuit, one minor, and scout, which is a clear win in the endgame for me.

 

His flag was the 2nd piece I would have checked (and piece that was 2nd closest to my minor) so as you said there is a very small chance he would win. Either way, I think it was worth a shot for him, but I guess he just either didn't understand the two square rule or didn't notice it.


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#12 TemplateRex

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Posted 15 January 2018 - 11:47 PM

If he hadn't have used the scout to find my last minor in the endgame, It would be my leuit and 2 minors vs. his leuit, one minor, and scout, which is a clear win in the endgame for me.

 

His flag was the 2nd piece I would have checked (and piece that was 2nd closest to my minor) so as you said there is a very small chance he would win. Either way, I think it was worth a shot for him, but I guess he just either didn't understand the two square rule or didn't notice it.

 

Oh, for sure, he should have used his scout at some point, because it would indeed be lost otherwise. I wonder if he could have waited. E.g. blocking the lanes with 3 of his last 4 miners, until you had moved 3 of your 5 miners so that he had better intel.

 

BTW, were you aware on 46:20 that you just moved across the A1-J8 diagonal that allows you to block J8 on J5 with I4? I would have moved to F5 instead E6. It's a similar rule as the rule of the square in chess that allows you to quickly see how far a piece can move and still block a miner charge along a column.


Edited by TemplateRex, 15 January 2018 - 11:49 PM.

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#13 OuweSok

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Posted 16 January 2018 - 10:25 PM

Some more on the close game: you did not exploit the information advantage very well and your opponent guessed/read your general well. But think: what can you move in like that at 22:12? Your marshal cannot capture major or general as both are protected by spy. A colonel can capture the major but then you will lose it. So general is the only one to make sense, he can capture the major and get out again.

 

I would first have posted a scout opposite general so that it cannot move to left or right without losing spy. Attack with 1-2 pieces on he left side, he will fear colonels and send smallish pieces at them, if anything. Attack with 2 pieces on the right so the marshal cannot properly chase them away. These are really the most fun scenarios to play, as your opponent will see marshals, generals and spies everywhere :)

 

Rather than directly threaten with a piece, just pin general and marshal. If they call your bluff and are right, you lose nothing. If they are wrong, they lose an important piece.


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#14 KissMyCookie

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Posted 16 January 2018 - 10:43 PM

Some more on the close game: blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah . . .

 

Fairway–I think you know more than enough to understand the things you did really well, things you could have done, things you did do that did not work as well as they could have, and things you would like to have done with better results...will someone explain to OldFool that this kind of commentary of his is not really helpful, and is only another way of his trying to show off...???  :excl:  :(



#15 KissMyCookie

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Posted 16 January 2018 - 10:51 PM

Nice win in your second game! I have two remarks / questions:

 

1) He uses his last scout to get back to equal material, but he ends up in an endgame with the wrong "parity". I wonder whether he should have waited using his scout to let your other miners move first. He then has the option to make a waiting move with the scout and get into the right parity endgame (i.e. where he has the 2-square rule working in his favor) after finding the miner. What do the experts think?  

 

Hey, TemplateRex! I am no expert, but your observations here are totally solid! Fairway was able to take advantage of this situation because of the 'three square rule' and the fact that his opponent was the one needing to 'make the first move,' thus, your insights are spot on–at least, I believe so. Had his opponent not moved the scout at the time which he had, it is possible that the result would have been that Fairway would have been in the inferior position of having to move first and risk losing something, OR revealing an unmoved piece.

 

2) At 48:41 when your last miner was in the central lane opposite his lieut, he should have moved down and dislodge your lieut from I3 and get his miner to G1 (most likely flag position). If I counted correctly, that gives you 14 moves with your miner. More than enough to get his real flag position, but not enough to test all his 7 remaining pieces. It would have given him an outside shot at a win.  

 

Your second observation already demonstrates that you have a deeper knowledge of this game than many others on this site–this is a wonderful statement and I believe that you are correct in your assessment. There is no doubt in my mind that you are going to hit gold before you expect to...these are exactly the kinds of thoughts and reflections that lead to developing one's game-play skills, and you and Fairway have it.

 

Thanks for sharing your thoughts because these are the kinds of comments that are helpful, beneficial, and very useful!  :D


Edited by KissMyCookie, 16 January 2018 - 10:52 PM.


#16 TemplateRex

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 10:06 AM

Your second observation already demonstrates that you have a deeper knowledge of this game than many others on this site–this is a wonderful statement and I believe that you are correct in your assessment. There is no doubt in my mind that you are going to hit gold before you expect to...these are exactly the kinds of thoughts and reflections that lead to developing one's game-play skills, and you and Fairway have it.

 

Thanks for the compliments. I'm miles away from being gold, struggling mid-level bronze :( The only component in my game that I think is pretty solid is the maneuvering part, thanks to my background in perfect information board games (lifelong draughts player, some basic chess skills), so that's why I comment mostly on endgames when all the pieces are known :) The information handling part is a big mystery to me yet, I am watching many games to see how people bluff and try to elicit information. I'm having a very hard time imitating that in my own games.

 

What I find amazing in the Stratego community that there are no analysis tools. In draughts/chess, there would never be a debate about such simple perfect information endgames, just analyze it with an engine and you know the perfect play. I find it sad that one of the game's greats (Nortrom) has to analyse endgames with 60+ moves deep variations by hand, without being sure that his analysis is correct. As I stated in my new year's resolution, I am going to write such a tool myself. Everything will be open sourced. Stay tuned for further announcements :)


Edited by TemplateRex, 17 January 2018 - 10:10 AM.

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#17 KissMyCookie

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 10:54 AM

Greetings to you, TemplateRex! Your candor is refreshing, indeed. I believe that I understand your feelings about learning this game–Stratego is a highly unique game of puzzles and problems, and it does pose challenges that are unlike most other games. Where chess has the fundamental information in plain sight, and one my attempt to mount a highly complex and extensive action against the opponent, Stratego relies heavily upon unknown information. Gathering this information is one of the exciting aspects of this game, because as you must already have bore witness to some of the highly skilled players here–they have an amazing sense of how to read the board and their opponents pieces, too. Another aspect is being able to manipulate your pieces so as to command the control of the game–the truly great players have been able to develop a skill in which it is almost as though they are in the driver's seat and they are dictating the direction of the game–both players struggle for that level of control.

 

The only way to develop the skill is to continue to play many, many matches, then to reflect upon what worked and what did not, and to keep notes of patterns that become recognizable to you. You must have enough experience to know what I am speaking about–there are times your opponent does things and it will remind you of something you experienced in a previous match. Go with your instinct, because you are probably reading things correctly.  :)  Do not let the feelings of frustration hamper your fun and thrill with this game. Be sure, there are many players here who have no understanding of the game, they blitz and lotto blindly, and it is not a match of Stratego for them, but of "Treasure Hunt." In other words, you will distinguish between the serious Stratego players versus the weekend warrior who merely wants a quick bit of fun swapping pieces for no reason at all. (Once I made this distinction, I could allow a bit of frustration by referring to lotto players as 'dorks', but the quality players as great opportunities to learn.) You will learn from the savage players, those without care or respect for the game, but you will also develop your skill so you learn how to deal with such irritating opponents. When I lose to a quality player (they could be bronze, silver, gold, or platinum–quality is quality), I do not mind so much because I usually have the feeling that I did not waste my time, my opponent was using clever and careful skill in achieving their victory, and it is even better when your opponent turns out to be a very nice person–sometimes I get a very nice chat message and it makes all the difference in the world. (Whenever you get a nasty chat message, please...do yourself a BIG favor...close the chat, turn off the sound, and get back to concentrating on making a victory..or, simply surrender and find a worthwhile opponent deserving of your time).

 

If you want to make advances, set up some friendlies with people here and ask to play a best of two out of three matches and discuss the matches with them...Fairway is terrific and will keep you guessing, and he will talk with you about the match...any of us here, who are happy to offer insights and support, will be more than glad to play a match and to talk about it...because anyone who loves this game loves to share the fun of it! I'll add you to my friends list so that if I am ever online and you want a match, we can play. (I am not nearly as knowledgeable as many others here, but I would be glad to share whatever I observe...right or wrong... :lol: ).

 

Take it easy and keep up the good fight!  :ph34r:  :ph34r:  :ph34r:

 

KMC


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#18 Fairway

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 03:59 PM

Here is game #19 

 

https://youtu.be/RBUKsoy8Gi0 (Also the odd blowing noise.. don't really understand.. not sure what that is..)

 

 

and game #20- so pathetic. lol

 

https://youtu.be/LziIxTC4IyA (For some reason there is an odd blowing noise , I'm not actually sure what that is , and I didn't hear it while playing.. so not sure?)


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#19 ScottLafaro

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 04:17 PM

Ah you encountered these one trick ponys. Really great you got the second game!!!!!! :D


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#20 Fks

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 04:26 PM

Here is game #19 
 
https://youtu.be/RBUKsoy8Gi0 (Also the odd blowing noise.. don't really understand.. not sure what that is..)
 
 
and game #20- so pathetic. lol
 
https://youtu.be/LziIxTC4IyA (For some reason there is an odd blowing noise , I'm not actually sure what that is , and I didn't hear it while playing.. so not sure?)

I haven't watched game yet. The odd blowing noise is most likely your computers fan. Maybe you aren't wearing headphones and if not you should!
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