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#1 ScottLafaro

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 12:53 PM

Hi Guys,

 

Full Match against Silver Marhall ELO 490 RTTRDM

 

It's my ambition to reach gold this year. I am at 464 now. 

 

In this game I use a great setup by Max Roelofs. The particular spy position did not fully exploit but the good mix of pieces came in handy. 

 

In mid game I really knew it wasn't his marsh coming for my gen. But I did not expect this.

 

I think RTTRDM played well and I could nog forsee his last move. 

 

I am aware of some of my "hysterical" moves. If I can overcome these more and more I think I will reach gold.

 

Best regards,

 

Scott

 

Gold-Brush-Hor_Hi-uai-516x172.png

 

 


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thus spoke zarathustra


#2 TemplateRex

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 02:40 PM

So you basically gambled with colonels as well as your general. In the end it worked out OK, but what does this have to do with strategy?


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#3 Unladen Swallow

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 02:48 PM

You need more than 200 points before you question others strategy, TemplateRex. 

 

That spy position is unusual. 


Edited by Unladen Swallow, 06 January 2018 - 02:50 PM.

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#4 OuweSok

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 04:44 PM

I will look the game later, but why don't you contain all your videos in a single thread rather than open a new one for each?

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#5 OuweSok

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 04:59 PM

You need more than 200 points before you question others strategy, TemplateRex.

I cannot remember having read this forum rule. I can remember finding an inferior play in one of your qa games and I am not close to your Stratego level. So there is no need for these supremacist comments imo. Anyone can question anyone's play. One if the good things of posting in a public forum
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#6 TemplateRex

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 05:01 PM

You need more than 200 points before you question others strategy, TemplateRex. 

 

That spy position is unusual. 

 

I have a measly 228 rating points indeed (as of today), but not being part of the Illuminati does not exclude me from questioning anything. Why don't you comment on what made this such a great game?

 

I have the following questions:

1) At any point after 11:18 (when the OP's first colonel became known), why didn't his opponent scout with his sarge at I6 to see what was standing there?

2) At 12:56, the OP's known general attacks an unknown piece that stood next to a colonel? Turned out to be his general, but why couldn't it have been the marshal? 

3) After the colo loss against OP's marshal, the opponent had info on gen + 2 colo's, and no intel given away. Why exchange generals? There were only a few sarges standing there that had already moved. Why not go after the OP's right colo with the general? Was he afraid that the spy at J6 was a marshal?

4) At 13:55 the OP's known colonel attack another unknown piece? Turned out to be his colonel, but why couldn't it have been his marshal? (OK, came from A9, so more likely colo than marshal, but still, why risk it if lying in wait was the strategy?)


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#7 Unladen Swallow

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 05:25 PM

Sorry. I realise I was poor with my wording. I don't normally like to write essays on video postings. However I dont see any major mistakes from scott here. Though he might not have considered each option when making these moves.

 

Ouwesok you were right when you commented on my QA game, and I said as such. Here I will try and explain why using a colonel here was not a bad idea.

 

11:18 that piece [sergeant] was stood next to a known luey (that a miner found earlier in the game). and it didnt take the luey at any point during the game. It's a reasonable bluff to call. The other two options aren't as good:-

-Let a likely lower ranked piece capture a miner and discover a major. This is bad because it exposes more pieces, and it will be easier for a (skilled) opponent to trap. 

-Let a sergeant take two miners before revealing the luey. Also a bad idea because you lose two miners (you want to preserve those) and you give away information about your bomb structure. 

 

Letting sergeant discover major/luey for two miners is a bad idea here. Therefore it's OK to take the piece coming down, which we deduced to be likely to be a bluff. If it isn't a bluff then...:-

-General is revealed: Assume colonel is protected by marsh. Go to right hand side and take the two moved pieces there. And likewise with a col for the piece next to col towards the middle.

-Marsh is revealed: take the col with gen.

 

---------------------

 

12:56 Col is taken, so it's okay to lose general for info here.

 

personally I wouldn't have made that move. I would have retreated general from there and scouted it with a sergeant. However, it's not a disasterous move as we have compensation for the general if it is lost. 

 

---

 

Why did opponent trade generals?

 

This was a serious blunder from rttrdm. Means you've lost a col AND your information advantage.  

This principle applies to all situations, even the opening:-

-e.g. You scout a captain at the start of the game on I7. Trading captains with yours would be a terrible mistake. It means you lost a scout for nothing. You should either hit I7 (captain) with a higher piece, or hit J7 with your captain. 

 

I think rttrdm was relying on his opponent hitting one of those two middle pieces. I don't think his intention was to try and exchange generals (but I may be wrong).

 

 

----

 

13:55 Known colonel attacking unknown

 

If a marshal WAS there, that would be the optimal play if he traded generals. If the marsh was there optimal play is to hit the col. It would make the position equal, or exchange the col disadvantage for a marsh disadvantage. Neither situation is bad for him. Since he didnt take after trading generals, we knew that piece can't have been the marshal, with over 95% certainty. 

 

Deciding NOT to take the col, then immediately move down between a col and a possible spy, with Marshal would be a a very strange move from rttrdm. This was almost certainly not the case.

 

 

Revealing your marshal for a possible scouting piece is not a good idea. 


Edited by Unladen Swallow, 06 January 2018 - 05:35 PM.

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#8 Silverhammer

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 07:15 PM

So much banter. 

 

But, Scott me and you dude, my goal is gold soon


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#9 OuweSok

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 07:16 PM

Here are my comments, previously I was on phone and could not view the vid.
 
0:50. I think your opponents marshal is unlikely to be on the side that is 50% bombed off, so moving up spy seems futile.
3:11 You should really try at least once the effect of moving up your marshal here and keeping it stationary. I have tried this trick exactly twice and exactly twice it netted me a full colonel.
8:06. You have found a captain, why not move the major up?
8:16. I don't like this, you really aren't going to press with your colonel, so I would have kept this side stationary.
9:00 I would have captured with lieutenant and not allow opponent a winning choice.
12:24 wohoohooooooooooooo succes!
12:29 That is a bit risky. After capturing a full blooded colonel, it seems time to pull back. Move away the right sergeant,
12:58 see 12:24 :)
13:55. I would have attacked with the marshal here. It could be the marshal entering, it could be a colonel. I am up a colonel, I can afford to show my marshal for not much and still be way ahead.
14:51 I am instantly hitting that major. Either I win a major or I learn where the marshal is and am still up a major.

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#10 Dobby125

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 07:44 PM

 

 

I have the following questions:

1) At any point after 11:18 (when the OP's first colonel became known), why didn't his opponent scout with his sarge at I6 to see what was standing there?

2) At 12:56, the OP's known general attacks an unknown piece that stood next to a colonel? Turned out to be his general, but why couldn't it have been the marshal? 

3) After the colo loss against OP's marshal, the opponent had info on gen + 2 colo's, and no intel given away. Why exchange generals? There were only a few sarges standing there that had already moved. Why not go after the OP's right colo with the general? Was he afraid that the spy at J6 was a marshal?

4) At 13:55 the OP's known colonel attack another unknown piece? Turned out to be his colonel, but why couldn't it have been his marshal? (OK, came from A9, so more likely colo than marshal, but still, why risk it if lying in wait was the strategy?)

 

1. He probably was just waiting for an attack on the sarge, hoping to capture a col/major/captain.

 

2. That was a 50/50 gamble.  I would have moved the sarge over at 12:36 from E6 to F6 to make an escape lane for the General, instead of moving the Col from I6 to I7.

 

3. It was also a major blunder by his opponent to swap Generals.  Most of the time you don't swap big pieces when you're losing, especially when your big piece is unknown.

 

4. I would have hit the colonel at 13:55 with the marshal.  He was up 6 pieces at the time.  It probably wasn't his marshal coming down(that's probably a good trick to do at higher levels though, going against the grain), but Scott was so far ahead in pieces he could afford to reveal his marshal and gain another piece.  It might have ended the game too.


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#11 Dobby125

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 07:46 PM

So much banter. 

 

But, Scott me and you dude, my goal is gold soon

 

Why are all the 400 level players hitting A4 with their scout to start games???  Stop doing that!


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#12 ScottLafaro

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 07:47 PM

Thanks all! I will not respond to all particular comments, but do know I study them ALL with great interest!!! Very much apprieciated. 

 

Looking back I could have retrieted my general. In silver play I would even have the opportunity to lure him round the lake to my crazy situated spy :-)

 

I do not think my OP wanted to trade gens. Looking at his marsh lotoing he was definately going to pass my gen en grab pieces; knowing my marsh could be on the other side.

 

Cool thing is, that US learned me the importance of intuition. In case of my gen, I felt it could not be the marsh and in case of my colonel I either. Of course in retrospect I could/would have taken the unknown piece with the marsh. But I played a game yesterday revealing my marshall way too soon, so I was a but insecure about that.

 

@ OUwesok: I make new topics cause I find this easier myself., 


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#13 Dobby125

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 07:55 PM

 

I do not think my OP wanted to trade gens. Looking at his marsh lotoing he was definately going to pass my gen en grab pieces; knowing my marsh could be on the other side.

 

 

Yup, that probably makes more sense.


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#14 TemplateRex

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 08:25 PM

Sorry. I realise I was poor with my wording. I don't normally like to write essays on video postings. However I dont see any major mistakes from scott here. Though he might not have considered each option when making these moves.

 

Thanks US, for your thoughtful comments! Will study them in detail.

 

About the 11:18 colonel hit: the B4 colonel was already known since 3:00 when it got scouted. And I didn't mean why hit piece on A4 with colonel from B4.

 

My question was rather: why after 12:29 didn't rttrdm hit the piece on I6 with his sarge on I7? If it's a captain, he can bring out the major on I8, if it's a colonel he can go after with the general, and if it's the marshal on I6, then he can move his general towards the center lane (either get exchanged or attack in the center or drive Scott's general towards his own marshal).

 

I see your point about it not being the marshal around 13:56. OTOH, doesn't that mean that rttrdm should have retreated unkown colonel back to the center instead of trying to exchange colonels or even get hit by Scott's marshal? With unkown marshal + colonel in the center, and Scott's two colonels known, rttrdm has a much better chance of maybe catching a major or two.


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#15 tobermoryx

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 08:34 PM

 

 

Of course in retrospect I could/would have taken the unknown piece with the marsh. But I played a game yesterday revealing my marshall way too soon, so I was a but insecure about that.

 

You should consider the board situation , and what will result from revealing your marshal to attack the unknown piece at 13:55

 

Even if his piece coming in is a scout , you get a free piece and are still up a colonel ,while his unknown marsh is blocked by yours on the left , by colonel/spy on right , and can be discovered by sergeant or scout in centre .

 

If the incoming piece had been marshal and you'd lost colonel to it , then his other colonel is unknown and may get a good piece before you find it , so he would have been back in the game . Though i think you were probably far enough ahead to survive a bad call at that time.



#16 TemplateRex

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 08:36 PM

I think RTTRDM played well and I could nog forsee his last move. 

 

At 15:00, did you think of moving up your captain on E3 to E4 followed by your marshal to D4 to intercept? If it's the marsh, you can exchange them. Then you are still up a colonel + major + lots of small piece. If it's a major, you are up colo + 2 majors. Of course it's unlikely he would have lotto'd to your flag, but why not prevent it altogether?


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#17 ScottLafaro

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 08:42 PM

At 15:00, did you think of moving up your captain on E3 to E4 followed by your marshal to D4 to intercept? If it's the marsh, you can exchange them. Then you are still up a colonel + major + lots of small piece. If it's a major, you are up colo + 2 majors. Of course it's unlikely he would have lotto'd to your flag, but why not prevent it altogether?

 

No honestly I was to busy with my plan to take the major; aiming the marsh was behind it, and then flee with spy hoping his marsh would try and take it.


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#18 KissMyCookie

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 10:17 PM

Why are all the 400 level players hitting A4 with their scout to start games???  Stop doing that!

 

Lord Dobby 125...this has been my very wish for far too long. FINALLY! Someone who understands my upset with such a pointless move.  :D

 

And yes...folks...you heard it right...

 

 

 

 

STOP DOING THAT MOVE ! ! !



#19 Fks

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 10:28 PM

Why are all the 400 level players hitting A4 with their scout to start games??? Stop doing that!

That square is very big for a bomb. I am not a fan of scouting front row pieces bec I can accomplish the same thing with a luit/captain I don't mind hitting a bomb in front row with a captain bec knowing where even just one bomb sais something about the person ur playing and able to judge where the rest of his bombs are and it is still early game so you can most likely get the captain back and have info on bomb. These past few days it seems I have only been playing people who aren't protecting there flag and I run in to all 6 bombs with majors/captains yes I am losing with material untill I get your flag with my general. Obviously you have to vary up your bomb situation but I am not a fan of a front row bomb it can only hurt your self as I don't think getting a captain off my opponent is a fair exchange. I haven't watched this game so idk why you made reference to that specific move on this thread. I think generally the point of scouting right away is hopefully you find a bomb that's the best I think or obvs marsh/gen But if you see a captain you can now assume a colonel is behind it. If you see a luit assume a major and so on. It might not be the case but the chances are higher then usual then you can start your attack with the right pieces and rhythm. I am now on a 7 game losing streak that has taking me from 680 to 600 so maybe I have no idea what I am talking about :)

Edited by Fks, 06 January 2018 - 10:29 PM.

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#20 tobermoryx

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 10:41 PM

He mentioned it because he plays with a front row flag.


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