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Topics of Abusive Behavior (2018)


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#1081 Fks

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Posted 31 May 2018 - 06:12 PM

 I am not stealing anybody's time. You are choosing to play the same game as me. I have been on both sides of the coin. I have had to give up games because I was running late for work and couldn't play any longer. I am not forcing people to do anything. If you don't want to wait all you have to do is politely say so. A simple "please don't waste my time. thank you" is all it takes. I dont make anyone do anything they dont want to do. If Dalee did not want to wait. All he had to do was say so. 

I believe we can just simply go back to the screen shots of the report made on you too see what bs you have wrote now. Any sane person could see Dalee was upset with you wasting his time enough to report you and made that clear in the game chat.

 

Everyone is choosing to play the game not choosing to be matched up with scum like you and get there time stolen. This is retarded that you think this way.

 

You have played 1,434 games. 7 minutes per game you stole. barring 30 seconds you could have used for actual game play. possible of 10,038 minutes of time you could have stolen. Since you don't show any remorse of doing so and from your past comments on the subject I am keen to believe the majority of that time was stolen.

 

I don't see why with good conscious the Administration would let a cancer such as you run around ruining the fun and enjoyment of the game for the community. 

 

It is sad to see the MT come to such a decision which obviously lacks all regard for players who have had there time stolen and will  by this thief.


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#1082 MathieuLawrence

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Posted 31 May 2018 - 06:25 PM

This discussion is ridicilous. Don't assume you know who I am and that every game is played the same way. I did not break any rules. I will try to play more professionally in the future. Fks tone it down a notch. You are saying I am harassing people. But look at the names you are calling me. 



#1083 Fks

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Posted 31 May 2018 - 06:39 PM

This discussion is ridicilous. Don't assume you know who I am and that every game is played the same way. I did not break any rules. I will try to play more professionally in the future. Fks tone it down a notch. You are saying I am harassing people. But look at the names you are calling me. 

You told us and shown us what you are, a thief. Is it harassment to call a thief a thief? Is it harassment to call a thief scum?

If so, MT ban me and not the thief.  


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#1084 astros

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Posted 31 May 2018 - 07:40 PM

In the case of dalee v MatthieuLawrence, the MT votes there is no case.
 
While we recognize that MatthieuLawrence may not have behaved in the most professional manner, we do not consider his actions egregious enough for a punishment.


This case should be categorized as abusive time wasting. ML states his intent to disconnect in order to waste his opponent's time, proceeds to disconnect, and then confirms this series of events on the forum.

I know that the MT does not want to judge disconnects because they are murky, but in clear cut cases like this what is the problem? There are many cases that the MT could judge as an intentional disconnect, and hence abusive time wasting, such as a disconnect immediately following a major piece hitting a bomb.
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#1085 Nortrom

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Posted 31 May 2018 - 08:01 PM

I feel sympathetic towards this. All I can say is, it will be discussed. But not retroactively applied.
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#1086 rgillis783

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Posted 31 May 2018 - 08:02 PM

Fks you would be considered wise if in the future you phrase your comment more in line with what we have come to expect from a top Stratego player. "Rebel Scum" will do, please. ;) One last thought "thief" is a bit harsh---" Time Bandit" much better IMHO ! :lol:


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#1087 KissMyCookie

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Posted 31 May 2018 - 08:26 PM

This discussion is ridicilous. 

 

@MathieuLawrence–On the idea of encouraging good sportsmanship and quality behavior, I think that many of us would be in agreement of the fundamental principals which may be applied to this philosophy. Being a “good sport” is not always a two way street as we may be sure there are those players who simply choose to make trouble instead of behaving well.

 

Your expectation of good behavior and good sportsmanship is, however, a two way street because you cannot claim the right to dictate what you believe is good behavior at the expense of your opponent’s point of view. In other words, so long as your opponent is not taunting you, or chatting despicable messages to you, or insulting you with personal attacks, or even threatening you, then that is about the limit you may demand to fulfill your expectations. You cannot demand that they engage with you, or chat with you, or acknowledge your communications–and this is precisely the fatal error in your thinking and your retaliation for what you feel is an offense against your sensibilities. This is simply wrong. You think because you are being a good sport that your opponent owes you something. No–they owe you nothing, like it or not. Then, when your expectation is not fulfilled, you have this idea that you will penalize them in your own fashion–that is wrong…if that is your motivation. Unfortunately, you have already admitted to this so you have twisted everything around and manipulated a situation in your mind that they are not being a good sport because you have reached out to them. This is not a healthy way to view the matter.

 

Get over it. Not every player on this site wants to communicate with their opponent. Just because you offer a kind word does not mean they owe you anything…they are anonymous, you don’t know them and they don’t know you; you are not in a live meeting in person. I would agree that it is a much better setting for people to get along and to interact in a friendly manner, but you cannot expect that on a gaming site that invites players from all over the world.

 

When any player engages in a ranked match on this site, there is no guarantee as to what kind of opponent they will be paired with–it is completely a luck of the draw, almost totally arbitrary, and out of our own control. You may find yourself with a quality player who likes to chat for fun, or a player who wants to blitz and then taunt, a player who curses you and uses the most foul and horrible language one should never ever be subjected to, or even the player that is simply silent. Once paired, you cannot maintain an expectation as it is unrealistic in every respect.

 

Based upon yoiur own comments, I would suggest that the MT discuss this as a kind of precedent for such future complaints. There is clearly enough discussion here among some highly respected and talented players to make a case for a future action.

 

Good luck and try to enjoy the game.

 

Thank you.

 

KMC


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#1088 astros

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Posted 31 May 2018 - 08:52 PM

I feel sympathetic towards this. All I can say is, it will be discussed. But not retroactively applied.


Nor should it be applied retroactively, but the discussion needs to be had.
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#1089 Fairway

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Posted 31 May 2018 - 08:52 PM

What Mathieu Lawrence did I do not think is sportsmanlike, and he should have not wasted Dalee's time. But currently MT does not judge buffer abuse of disconnects. Unless MT begins to judge these as types of abuses, then there should be no punishment for ML. But I wouldn't oppose to see MT judge these buffer abuses and disconnects, either.


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#1090 MathieuLawrence

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Posted 31 May 2018 - 11:03 PM

I have taken everybody's comments into consideration. Quite a few players make good points. I will learn from this and try to play better in the future. I will work on the clock thing.

#1091 tobermoryx

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Posted 31 May 2018 - 11:13 PM

Dalee has appealed against the 'no case' verdict by saying that while there is not any rule against simple disconnecting there are rules covering unsporting behaviour when the intent is clear from chat etc

So all MT members can vote again.

We will also consider the explanations from MathieuLawrence.
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#1092 rgillis783

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Posted 31 May 2018 - 11:50 PM

An appeal, I musta missed it. Was this in a PM Tober ? I was unaware that one could file an appeal. Would you please elaborate on this process. I find this whole affair confusing. Such as the plaintiff has been accused of doing this themselves in a tournament match . I think Fks and KMC have given their perspective on the matter but I don't see or feel Dalee cares that much. The defendant ML has voiced their side to all it seems.  


Edited by rgillis783, 31 May 2018 - 11:51 PM.

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#1093 tobermoryx

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Posted 01 June 2018 - 12:46 AM

Anyone unhappy when they see the verdict can make a case that it wasn't handled correctly.

Most cases would not be reopened. Last year a case was reopened when Unladen Swallow produced extra evidence.

Dalee feels it was rejected due to simple disconnection not being against the rules. But there have been cases where players were punished due to 'unsportsmanlike behaviour' and he feels the overall behaviour is the crucial evidence rather than the final disconnection.

With this case it was closed after 3 votes were cast (which is fine and normal) but after Dalee said we had not considered all the applicable rules it was decided to have everyone vote and see if anyone changes their mind.

#1094 tobermoryx

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Posted 01 June 2018 - 12:48 AM

Yes rgillis, it was in a PM.

#1095 rgillis783

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Posted 01 June 2018 - 01:01 AM

Thank you Tobermoryx--- for quick response. I did very quick check of the rules and saw nothing on appeal,so explaining helps. Since I did check rules I would mention section 6.5-possibly applicable also section 8.1. The task given to the MT seems to be a constant challenge-- just like the game the we all care for. Thanks for all the work  !  :ph34r:  



#1096 tobermoryx

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Posted 03 June 2018 - 02:43 AM

Following the appeal by Dalee, the MT has confirmed the original verdict of no case against MathieuLawrence for unsporting behaviour.

 

MathieuLawrence did behave poorly but it appears he sincerely believed that his opponent was disrespecting him, which motivated his actions.



#1097 astros

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Posted 03 June 2018 - 03:02 AM

The MT finds astros guilty of 1st degree abusive behaviour in a match with Lottomania and he will be sent a warning letter. 

 

 

MathieuLawrence did behave poorly but it appears he sincerely believed that his opponent was disrespecting him, which motivated his actions.

I believe that lottomania's behavior towards me was disrespectful and intended to solicit insults. I too would like to appeal my verdict.

 

I also request that GaryLShelton recuse himself because he believes that dual American nationals like me are plotting to betray America as evidenced by his comments here:

 

http://forum.strateg.../?hl=hyphenated

 

Given Gary's strong patriotic inclinations, I do not believe that he will act impartially towards me.

 

Thank you


Edited by astros, 03 June 2018 - 03:03 AM.

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#1098 tobermoryx

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Posted 03 June 2018 - 03:36 AM

I believe that lottomania's behavior towards me was disrespectful and intended to solicit insults. I too would like to appeal my verdict.

 

Given Gary's strong patriotic inclinations, I do not believe that he will act impartially towards me.

 

Thank you

 

MathieuLawrence didn't swear at Dalee, so it was somewhat different. That you felt you had been provoked was considered at the time. So we are not going to see that there is any new angle to look at in that case.

 

Gary doesn't bring his political views into cases.



#1099 astros

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Posted 03 June 2018 - 03:46 AM

Now you use language? In the BattleChat I already said you didn't use the worst language. But you just didn't stop, and the rules don't stop at your first sentences. You harassed him in the view of the MT.

 

 

MathieuLawrence didn't swear at Dalee, so it was somewhat different. That you felt you had been provoked was considered at the time. So we are not going to see that there is any new angle to look at in that case.

 

Gary doesn't bring his political views into cases.

 

Based on Gary's comments the MT voted me guilty of harassment and NOT abusive language. Therefore, I would like the MT to reevaluate their harassment verdict.

 

Why should I expect a moderator who believes that "a hyphenated American is not an American at all" and "Any man who carries a hyphen about with him carries a dagger that he is ready to plunge into the vitals of this Republic whenever he gets ready" to treat me fairly? I know that I am frequently provocative on here, but imagine if a moderator made similar comments about a Greek player, there would be zero tolerance for that language.

 

Also, Gary was directly censured by the site administrators, I have the emails to prove this, because of a report I made. I believe he used, as he has done previously, his position as a moderator to go after me.


Edited by astros, 03 June 2018 - 03:52 AM.

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#1100 GaryLShelton

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Posted 03 June 2018 - 05:47 AM

Based on Gary's comments the MT voted me guilty of harassment and NOT abusive language. Therefore, I would like the MT to reevaluate their harassment verdict.

 

Why should I expect a moderator who believes that "a hyphenated American is not an American at all" and "Any man who carries a hyphen about with him carries a dagger that he is ready to plunge into the vitals of this Republic whenever he gets ready" to treat me fairly? I know that I am frequently provocative on here, but imagine if a moderator made similar comments about a Greek player, there would be zero tolerance for that language.

 

Also, Gary was directly censured by the site administrators, I have the emails to prove this, because of a report I made. I believe he used, as he has done previously, his position as a moderator to go after me.

 

 

astros, a lot of water has passed under the bridge between you and I and it's not been all good.  But then, it hasn't been all bad either.  Your strong suits for the site, particularly in the area of tournaments, is evident for all to see. I don't doubt your skills and knowledge in that area. We do disagree politically, that's true.  But those things don't really affect things on the site.  You're a left wing wacko and I'm a right wing dingbat.  But I believe we've usually managed to find common ground.  You recently contacted the MT about your current staff position and tournament powers and I largely was the one to push through that arrangement, I believe it is fair to say.  So it's not like there's some invisible barrier to our working together.  If in the final analysis you don't like me and I don't like you, then that's only life working the way it works.  I don't despise you at all and I believe there's times you don't despise me.  I feel I've always acted based upon your actions rather than your person.  If you feel differently, I'm sorry.  

 

I do want to say something that's going to sound mean but I intend it as a compliment.  That is, your skills at tournament organizing pale in comparison to your acting skills.  As MJ you had me believing you were this conservative middle aged guy from Ohio. I think we had a couple of good conversations back then.  I clearly remember feeling the ripping of consciousness when it was divulged that you were he. It's probably why I'm a low gold player most of the time, but I think I would have bet a bodily appendage that that wasn't the case.  MJ had a lot of good ideas and it should have been more evident, I guess, but it was a very good acting job. So kudos for it, and I mean that sincerely. Especially the middle aged guy from Ohio part. I think I may have been the inspiration for it?  :D



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