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Report Draw Refusal Here (2018)


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#1 GaryLShelton

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Posted 05 January 2018 - 05:12 AM

Please report any cases of draw refusal that you encounter in 2018 here in this topic. The MT will review them and post judgements in this same topic. Remember to include adequate proof, in the form of screenshots and/or videos, or your claim will not be heard by the MT and your post may be hidden.

The 2017 topic will soon be moved to the archive, where it will still be viewable, though read-only. Any questions on cases from the old thread will have to be made in this new one.

For your convenience the evidence requirements part of our draw refusal rules is reprinted in red just below. For the full draw refusal rules you can continue reading below that. For the complete GS&FR go to this link:
http://forum.strateg...rum-rules-2016/


========================
Draw Refusal Evidence Required for a STRONG Case:


3.4.1 What you should have in your screenshots to make a STRONG case:
  • The time from your computer visible in all screenshots.
  • The graveyards of both players visible in all screenshots.
  • Two screenshots of your opponent rejecting two tie requests 10 minutes apart. These screenshots should ideally show all pieces on the board and no progress in the game during that time.
  • Any relevant chat dialogue, particularly by your opponent.
  • Little or no use of your own buffer shown in the screenshots.
  • The defeat details screen is very important. The MT will not uphold your claim of draw refusal without it or other evidence that you have lost the game.
  • There should be no progress in the game between final tie refusal and the defeat details screen.
========================

Full Draw Refusal Rules Below:




3.0 Cases of Draw Refusal (and Other Unsportsmanlike Behavior):

3.1.1 Fair Decisions and Punishments: The number one goal of the MT in regards to draw refusals is to provide fair decisions to victims and fair punishments to violators. As draw refusals are one of the worst offenses of unsportsmanlike behavior on the site, the punishments listed below will be harsh, though we feel fair. We hope that the tough penalties and all the publicly viewable cases (here: http://forum.strateg...sals-here-2016/) will help to educate the community as to the nature of draw situations, and to contribute in reducing their abuse.

3.1.2 Types of Draw Refusal: There are two types of inappropriate draw refusals. The first is a clear draw and occurs when neither player can win the game. One example of this is a miner-less game with protected flags for both players where, in the absence of a gross mistake, neither player can capture his opponent's highest piece. A player with more pieces may try to confuse his opponent by shuffling his pieces, or he may try to lotto them in an attempt to see if a flag is unprotected, but if he fails in these things it is considered unsportsmanlike to continue this type of game and hope his opponent will eventually quit. Any player who denies two tie requests ten minutes apart in this situation (see Article 3.4.2 on "Ten Minutes") is subject to the penalties listed at Article 3.2 below.

The second type of draw refusal is a no-progress draw and occurs in a game in which one or both sides have the potential to win but no improvement is being made by either side. If one player requests a tie, at any time in the game, and is refused, then it is the responsibility of the player who refused the tie to take the offensive and to try to advance the game toward a resolution. If he does this, then the draw situation is deemed over. If he does not, and also does not accept a second tie request ten minutes after the first one (see Article 3.4.2 on "Ten Minutes"), he will be subject to the penalties listed at Article 3.2 below.

3.1.3 Progress/Advancing the Game: As stated above, the burden to advance the game falls on the player refusing the draw after a tie request is made. An attack will often be evidence of this, but not always. For example, lottoing a low-level piece or two in an endgame situation may not be viewed as advancement. On the other hand, not attacking is usually evidence of non-advancement, but again not always. The player steadily pushing a multiple piece army to his opponent's side of the board may still be seen as advancing the game even without yet attacking. In summary, the MT expects to see the player who refuses a draw request to exhibit solid progress after refusing the tie request.

3.1.4 The Basic Draw Rule: It does not matter if either player has better units or more units (i.e., superior material), no one "deserves to win" if he cannot capture the flag or all of his opponent's pieces.



3.2 Penalty Schedule for Draw Refusals:

Note: Quick Arena (QA) games will be accepted for review as long as the evidence for the draw refusal meets the same criteria as that of a regular game. (see Article 3.4.1 "What you should have in your screenshots" below.)

First Offense – A 100 point rating deduction and a written warning emailed from the admins. QA penalty: one week ban.

Second Offense – An account reset down to 100 ELO and a second written warning emailed from the admins. QA penalty: one month ban.

Third Offense – A permanent ban, a public forum announcement, and an emailed notice from the admins for both regular and QA venues (must comply with 1.8 Permanent Bans).

Optional One-Time Reminder Letter – In a permanent ban case in this section should the Moderator Team not have the votes needed to permanently ban a player, but does have enough for a normal conviction level (see Article 1.7), the MT may choose to issue either a reminder letter to the guilty party, or a repeat of the 2nd offense. If chosen, the optional reminder letter may only be issued one time per player for an offense in this section. On top of this, it may also be issued similarly one time for the same player or forum member for an offense under Articles 2, 4, and 5. No points will be restored to a player bringing a case if this reminder letter is issued to his opponent. (see also Article 3.5)



3.3 Where to report your complaint of a draw refusal: http://forum.strateg...sals-here-2016/
The Moderator Team will acknowledge your case in, and render decisions in, the above topic.

3.4.1 What you should have in your screenshots to make a STRONG case:
  • The time from your computer visible in all screenshots.
  • The graveyards of both players visible in all screenshots.
  • Two screenshots of your opponent rejecting two tie requests 10 minutes apart. These screenshots should ideally show all pieces on the board and no progress in the game during that time.
  • Any relevant chat dialogue, particularly by your opponent.
  • Little or no use of your own buffer shown in the screenshots.
  • The defeat details screen is very important. The MT will not uphold your claim of draw refusal without it or other evidence that you have lost the game.
  • There should be no progress in the game between final tie refusal and the defeat details screen.

    We also recommend:
  • For any questions on uploading screenshots, see this helpful link: http://forum.strateg...ad-screenshots/
3.4.2 Ten Minutes Is the Gold Standard of Proof: Please note from the above that what will make a strong case for any draw refusal claim is to give us two time-stamped refusal screenshots taken ten minutes apart, showing all pieces on the board, plus a defeat details screen. If no progress is made between any of these three screens, the MT will always view this evidence as solid proof of the guilt of the draw refuser. Anything less and we may concur with a claim, or we may not.

In accepting less than ten minutes of evidence, the factors that we consider will include: the nature of the draw situation, the actions of the draw refuser after a tie refusal, and the experience level of the players involved. But nothing is guaranteed in this area. If you want to be absolutely certain the MT will uphold your case, give us ten minutes of no-progress proof and a defeat screen.

3.4.3 System Tie Requests: The tie refusal screens mentioned to this point are system tie requests. You have three of them to offer by pressing the tie request button on your screen. It is a good habit to always take a screenshot when you have a tie offer refused. To meet the requirement of two system tie refusal screens for a strong case above, you may use any combination of the screenshots of your 1st, 2nd, or 3rd tie refusals by your opponent. Just make sure there is no progress in the game for ten minutes in the screens that you show us. You may, of course, show us all three tie refusals.

Also, please note that a grayed-out tie request button can indeed mean that all three of your system tie requests have been used up, but it does not necessarily mean this when certain message boxes are showing, such as a tie refusal notification box or the defeat/victory details screen. In addition, although clearly of interest, a grayed-out button does not in itself show the time information necessary to prove your case, so don't rely too heavily upon it as evidence.

3.4.4 Tie Requests Made in Chat: Requests for a tie that are made in a game chat can be substituted for a valid system tie request if necessary, but will always be a poorer form of evidence. For one, your opponent may not understand you. For two, unless your opponent definitively replies to your tie request in the chat, a mere request by you is no clear proof of his intent. It is always recommended, therefore, that these types of chat offers contain the opponent's response and that they be used in combination with other evidence.

3.4.5 No Changes in Proof: Keep in mind that any changes in the situation of your game during the evidentiary period, even to the loss of a single piece, may invalidate all of your proof. Further, if you change your mind and try to win the game after beginning the draw process, that is your right, but you will risk the potential draw that you sought. After progress has been made on the board you may no longer go back and claim a draw refusal from earlier in the game.

3.4.6 Defeat is Required: Should the game you are claiming a draw refusal on end in either a tie or a win, the MT will not hear your case.

3.4.7 Buffer Run Outs: If a player seeking a draw captures all the necessary screenshots for proving his case, but then runs out his buffer, the MT may still consider his case for draw refusal if the evidence is submitted to us. Please make a claim to us if this happens to you.

3.4.8 Surrendering the game: After you have collected screenshots of at least two tie refusals ten minutes apart (see Article 3.4.2 on "Ten Minutes" above), you can safely surrender the game. Remember to next take a screenshot of the “defeat details screen". (This is the one that tells how long your game lasted, how many moves were made, etc.) If you provide this evidence of tie refusals, and that you have surrendered, and if we agree your opponent is in violation of our rules, the MT will take away 13 points (which is the difference between a draw and either a loss or win) from your opponent's rating and restore it to yours. Also, your opponent will be subject to a further point deduction penalty or permanent banning. (see Article 3.2 above) Unfortunately, we cannot fix any player's win/loss records at this time.

3.5 Guilt Must Be Proven/No Courtesy ELO Restorations: The Moderator Team will require enough evidence to establish the guilt of the draw refuser in order to uphold a draw refusal case. In the past the MT has given 13 points as a one-time courtesy restoration when the bad sportsmanship of a draw refusing opponent was not concretely proven and no draw refusal penalty points were deducted. However, we now feel that giving points to a victim but not simultaneously punishing a draw refuser ultimately helps no one. The victim is rewarded too easily and the guilty party is not given a fair and just penalty to inform him of his bad behavior. Both will be unenlightened and likely to repeat the same event again. So if the MT agrees with a draw refusal claim, one person will be vindicated and one person will be punished. We will no longer offer a one-time courtesy to players whose proof falls short of convincing us of the guilt of their opponent.

3.6 Other Unsportsmanlike Behavior: For any egregious unsportsmanlike behavior not covered in Articles 2, 3, or 4, or excluded by Article 8, the Moderator Team will look at the claims. Sufficient evidence to establish the guilt of the defendant may require video proof. Actions by the MT may include anything from points restorations/deductions to permanent bannings. All cases will be judged separately.


Remember that all accusations require proof. If you have opened a complaint without the necessary evidence the only action the MT will take is to hide your post.

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The complete GS&F Rules can be found here: http://forum.strateg...rum-rules-2016/

Draw Refusal Rules, specifically, can be read here: http://forum.strateg...604#entry339604

#2 whitedove

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Posted 05 January 2018 - 08:35 PM

I would like to report a draw refusal by WTHC which occurred on 5th January

 

I had only a major left

 

He had a major captain and lieutenant

 

My bomb was protect and I suspect that his was also

 

I had tested 4 of his remaining 5 bombs

 

I offer three draws and also told him about being reported

 

I also referred him to the forum.

 

The screen shots are store here

 

//userweb.eftel.com/~j.s.parry/P1.jpg  (Shows the board before the last draw request)

//userweb.eftel.com/~j.s.parry/P2.jpg  (Shows the board with no more draw requests available)

//userweb.eftel.com/~j.s.parry/P3.jpg  (Shows that I lost the game after giving up)

 

Thanks

 

John Parry

 



#3 KissMyCookie

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Posted 05 January 2018 - 11:05 PM

I would like to report a draw refusal by WTHC which occurred on 5th January

 

I had only a major left

 

He had a major captain and lieutenant

 

My bomb was protect and I suspect that his was also

 

I had tested 4 of his remaining 5 bombs

 

I offer three draws and also told him about being reported

 

I also referred him to the forum.

 

The screen shots are store here

 

//userweb.eftel.com/~j.s.parry/P1.jpg  (Shows the board before the last draw request)

//userweb.eftel.com/~j.s.parry/P2.jpg  (Shows the board with no more draw requests available)

//userweb.eftel.com/~j.s.parry/P3.jpg  (Shows that I lost the game after giving up)

 

Thanks

 

John Parry

 

Congratulations, Mr. Parry! You are the first person to comment on this thread and not 'someone' else...and we all know who that someone else is.  :D  

 

ZpVw3M5.jpg

(Not of me or mine)

 

 

You have given the entire Stratego community hope that others will use this valuable service as served by the MT. Good luck with your case. (Pssst! You are missing time stamps on your photos...no way to gauge the passage of time).

 

P1.jpg

 

 

P1.jpg

 

P3.jpg


Edited by KissMyCookie, 05 January 2018 - 11:09 PM.


#4 ghostshadow0

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Posted 05 January 2018 - 11:27 PM

Hello MT,
 
I am reporting a draw refusal by Daniel Riemer. 
 
none of us had miners, and my general (highest remaining piece) blocked the only pathway to my flag.
 
Here are screenshots of our play of over 10 minutes:
 
(game at 4:58)
(draw refusal at 5:03)
(draw refusal at 5:08)
(game at 5:10, no more tie requests available)
(defeat screen)
 

Thank you in advance for looking into this.


Edited by ghostshadow0, 09 January 2018 - 02:42 AM.


#5 GaryLShelton

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 06:21 AM

Hello MT,
 
I am reporting a draw refusal by Daniel Riemer. 
 
none of us had miners, and my general (highest remaining piece) blocked the only pathway to my flag.

.

A case will be opened.

The complete GS&F Rules can be found here: http://forum.strateg...rum-rules-2016/

Draw Refusal Rules, specifically, can be read here: http://forum.strateg...604#entry339604

#6 hello124

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 06:10 PM

draw against makrilos G
I had a minor and a sergant against a minor, spy, general
it was a draw because I went over three lanes on the right with my minor all the time

https://imgur.com/gallery/5ozi8

#7 Spion...

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 06:12 PM

draw against makrilos G
I had a minor and a sergant against a minor, spy, general
it was a draw because I went over three lanes on the right with my minor all the time

https://imgur.com/gallery/5ozi8

youtube Channal stratego spion


#8 Spion...

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 06:13 PM


sorry that post above from hello124 was on the wrong battery

youtube Channal stratego spion


#9 GaryLShelton

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 06:51 PM

sorry that post above from hello124 was on the wrong battery

 

 

So Spion..., are you saying the game actually was played against MAKRILOS G by yourself and not your alias hello124?



The complete GS&F Rules can be found here: http://forum.strateg...rum-rules-2016/

Draw Refusal Rules, specifically, can be read here: http://forum.strateg...604#entry339604

#10 roeczak

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 06:56 PM

Lol
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If you enjoy stratego you might want to subscribe to Roeczak. Member of Stratego Captains Club. Actively trying to promote the game and would like to help in any activity towards that goal. Highest Rating : 898 (Platinum Marshal)

#11 GaryLShelton

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 07:02 PM

I would like to report a draw refusal by WTHC which occurred on 5th January

 

I had only a major left

 

He had a major captain and lieutenant

 

My bomb was protect and I suspect that his was also

 

I had tested 4 of his remaining 5 bombs

 

I offer three draws and also told him about being reported

 

I also referred him to the forum.

 

The screen shots are store here

 

//userweb.eftel.com/~j.s.parry/P1.jpg  (Shows the board before the last draw request)

//userweb.eftel.com/~j.s.parry/P2.jpg  (Shows the board with no more draw requests available)

//userweb.eftel.com/~j.s.parry/P3.jpg  (Shows that I lost the game after giving up)

 

Thanks

 

John Parry

 

 

Your links do not work.  Thanks to KMC for translating them here. 

 

Nevertheless, please see the rules of evidence for Draw Refusal complaints at the link at the bottom of any of my posts.  We need two refusal screens ten minutes apart and a defeat screen.  Clear draws will always be looked at a little less stringently on the time issue, but two refusals are still needed several minutes apart even there.



The complete GS&F Rules can be found here: http://forum.strateg...rum-rules-2016/

Draw Refusal Rules, specifically, can be read here: http://forum.strateg...604#entry339604

#12 Major Nelson

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 07:03 PM

hello124 is his brother.
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Winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is.


#13 KissMyCookie

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 10:13 PM

hello124 is his brother.

 

Boy, is his brother going to be pissed off ! ! !  :ph34r:  :ph34r:  :ph34r:



#14 GaryLShelton

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 02:06 AM

 

Hello MT,
 
I am reporting a draw refusal by Daniel Riemer. 

 

 

The MT has voted a 1st degree draw refusal against Daniel Riemer.  Pending administrative action he will have 113 points deducted from his account and he will receive a warning letter.  ghostshadow0 will have 13 points restored to his account for the draw.


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The complete GS&F Rules can be found here: http://forum.strateg...rum-rules-2016/

Draw Refusal Rules, specifically, can be read here: http://forum.strateg...604#entry339604

#15 ghostshadow0

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 02:32 AM

Thanks for reviewing the case, MT!



#16 122333444455555

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 09:31 PM

Cut and dry draw refusal from 1.Disconnector. He ran his piece around for over 10 minutes while I had all 3 avenues blocked.  Please restore my points and take action against this player.

 

https://imgur.com/a/qlczj



#17 Fks

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 09:55 PM

Cut and dry draw refusal from 1.Disconnector. He ran his piece around for over 10 minutes while I had all 3 avenues blocked.  Please restore my points and take action against this player.

 

https://imgur.com/a/qlczj

I happen to just play this guy he disconnected after it was known I would win :P


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#18 Mahissimo

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 12:44 AM

Hey guys!

 

I seem to be the last person on earth not to get the message that we have 2018 now... I was wondering the whole time why there is no case opened :D So here we go again (original message from january second):

 

I have an obvious case of a draw refusal here. Just look at the screenshot, I'd love to get my points back and Lady Knight punished.

 

https://postimg.org/image/bap7c9fl1/



#19 tobermoryx

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 03:15 AM

sorry that post above from hello124 was on the wrong battery

 

Do you have any screen shots of the graveyard ? As we need to see what pieces were left . Also any screens showing the time are helpful.



#20 tobermoryx

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 03:23 AM

Cut and dry draw refusal from 1.Disconnector. He ran his piece around for over 10 minutes while I had all 3 avenues blocked.  Please restore my points and take action against this player.

 

https://imgur.com/a/qlczj

 

A case is opened.






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