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Proposed modification in time control


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#1 Traxex

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Posted 26 December 2017 - 04:57 PM

Hello everybody, 

I am relatively new on this site (I have been playing on Gravon before  :) ) and I would like to propose a time control modification to match the standards. In my little time here I have encountered many childish people who, when beaten, start using their 14 out of 15 seconds, then making a random move, prolonging the game to extreme lengths. I would, therefore, like to propose  this "bug" to be fixed. A player should have an allocated amount of time (say 12 minutes) with a very small "buffer" per move. This would not stop chidish people from being childish, but it would save others from having to chose between leaving a won game or playing for hours on end.. 


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#2 Fairway

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Posted 26 December 2017 - 05:11 PM

A 12 minute buffer would be very problematic .

 

I experience more people who run their buffer out when they have lost rather than taking 15 seconds to move each turn. If we make the buffer time more than double what it currently is, that means when poor sports run out their buffer rather than surrendering, we will wait 12 minutes- I can play a game in that time..

 

I have proposed a 10 second move limit with a 3 minutes buffer for full games, and a 10 second move limit with a 1:30 buffer for QA, but sadly the admins here are rarely active and make changes, updates, or improvements to the site very rarely, if ever.


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#3 GaryLShelton

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Posted 26 December 2017 - 05:15 PM

Hello again, Traxex.  This topic has been talked about indepth a various times.  But one thing you have to remember about people you would call "jerks".  If you give them a 4 second move timer (free time) and a 12 minute buffer, you could very well end up having to spend all the 12 minutes waiting now instead of the five minutes currently if one of the jerks wants to make you wait.  (I see Fairway responded to this point already.)

 

There does need to be a balance between the move timer and buffer timer.  I would also throw in the subject of setup time being too long currently.  Everyone has pre-made setups so why six minutes to set up one's pieces to play?  Also, why isn't there an automatic loss for the person running his setup timer down to zero now?  Often in my experience the setup time is merely extended indefinitely. This may be a difference between the web version and new app, which I play on mostly.



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#4 Fks

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Posted 26 December 2017 - 06:41 PM

It is funny I think When I joined I had rose similar arguments. Not with the gravon 12 minute timer which works actually pretty well. This is mostly by lower ranks. When you will raise up your rating you will start to see these "jerks" less and less but sadly it will always be there I happen to not play many ranked games but when I do I usually am watching some YouTube videos on a different tab or doing something else to keep me occupied even when they are moving just fine and obviously when they start to take forever. In gravon Your timer is essentially unlimited If you move But if you done it does force you to move as there is no buffer. I am dreading the time when I will eventually make my rating grind in how long it will take from all these jerks.

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#5 Nortrom

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Posted 26 December 2017 - 06:46 PM

Bit off-topic, did you choose your screenname from the same game as I did? 


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#6 Traxex

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Posted 26 December 2017 - 10:11 PM

Well to begin with, mostly for me the problem is not waiting the 5 minutes buffer (and therefore wait 12..) .The problem is that these people waste your time by moving, but only at the last second of the 15 secs, making the game excruciatingly slow. That is my main focus. Also, I am obviously new here, so still not veeery hugh, but the last time this happened (final straw) was with a platinum player.. I mean, jerks rise all the way to the top :/ Aaanyway just something I wanted to say.. :) Obviously I am not the first to suffer, but I wanted to say something. And sorry for the spam as I did not know it had been discuessed before :) 

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#7 GaryLShelton

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Posted 27 December 2017 - 01:42 AM

It would make for an interesting poll. What problem do you experience most often? Players taking 15 seconds a move, or allowing their buffer to run all the way to zero? Although I will agree that someone taking 15 seconds every turn is annoying, for me I experience far, far more of the latter. Besides the buffer abuse itself, the guys that do this will often also disconnect on you to make you wait an additional 2:30.

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#8 Fairway

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Posted 27 December 2017 - 03:09 AM

By far I experience players who run out their buffer rather than those who take 15 seconds. I very rarely experience thise who take 15 seconds; as it wastes both your time and theirs. I would say one in 10 gsmes a have a player who runs out the buffer, but one in 100 who tskes 15 seconds.. rough estimate of course.


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#9 Fks

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Posted 27 December 2017 - 04:16 AM

I haven't dealt with someone taking 15 seconds per move for a month there was 1 only one game. And he said he was doing it just to waste my life lol. And before that instance maybe another month 1 game. Tho it comes down to me playing not as many ranked games I think. People disconnecting is the normal but I don't see why that matters. It is good to take a break after each game or else you will be a streaky player!

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#10 Nortrom

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Posted 27 December 2017 - 05:38 PM

P.S. Yes, Nortrom, I did ;) Drow ranger for the win :P ( I was not very good, but i loved her ;) )

 

;)

 

On-Topic: 12 / 04  would be great. Since online games don't have a time limit (yet), I suppose you can also increment both player's buffer by 5 min after 60 minutes or something. Harder penalties would have to be applied for those who let the clock run down, though.


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#11 roeczak

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Posted 27 December 2017 - 11:27 PM

@Nortrom : Since you have been around in live tournaments longer than I am , do you think the time control used live is perfect as it is or do you believe it could use some change?


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#12 Nortrom

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Posted 28 December 2017 - 02:25 AM

No opinion. I think it is fine as is. 


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#13 GaryLShelton

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Posted 28 December 2017 - 09:48 AM

;)
Harder penalties would have to be applied for those who let the clock run down, though.


Off the cuff I would want to devise a simple penalty for buffer abuse. Something like 25 points for every two minutes of this type of abuse. Unfortunately, it would probably require video proof to enforce.

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#14 roeczak

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Posted 28 December 2017 - 10:08 AM

@Nortrom: Don't you think it encourages very defensive play?
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#15 Unladen Swallow

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Posted 28 December 2017 - 11:47 AM

keep the buffer at 5 mins (thats plenty of time) but reduce the move time to 5 secs


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#16 Nortrom

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Posted 28 December 2017 - 12:22 PM

@ Roeczak, not so much.


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#17 Major Nelson

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Posted 28 December 2017 - 12:33 PM

One thing that totally frustrates me when I play live is that I often find myself in a situation where I am winning but I don't have the highest-value piece, so the opponent chases my pieces with it relentlessly. This way the opponent saves a great deal of time and has many chances to achieve draw because of the clock. Maybe that's one aspect of the defensive play roeczak mentions.


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#18 roeczak

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Posted 28 December 2017 - 01:51 PM

Yes , Major Nelson hit the nail on the head. I actually had two situations in mind (one was me vs. Kees de Vos in the 9th round of live WC this year and the other was Overlord v. Henry in 4th Round Greek championships this year) that would have been an easy win on online , but Henry comfortably saved the draw with endless chases and I even lost to Kees because I overpressed for a win (to secure a top 10 place).
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#19 Nortrom

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Posted 28 December 2017 - 02:09 PM

We're trying to improve rules & regulations for live games, and this definitely is one of the discussion topics. Personally I find this to be violating rule 4.4 (unsporting behaviour) but some think otherwise.

 

Anyway, let's keep this on-topic. If you have some ideas about it, please send me a PM so we can further discuss it and keep this topic about online time :)


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#20 Unladen Swallow

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Posted 28 December 2017 - 02:41 PM

what if, you were losing the game but:-

 

-You had 6 mins on your personal clock

-There are only 5 mins left on the overall game clock (when the game clock runs out the game is a draw)

 

would it be legal to therefore request the draw / otherwise run the clock to ensure the game is drawn ? 

 

---

 

I think this is essentially what people are asking. It's probably not the most sporting thing but it's allowed within the rules, I think. 


Edited by Unladen Swallow, 28 December 2017 - 02:42 PM.

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