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Why is Stratego at the Popularity it is?


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#1 GaryLShelton

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 04:23 AM

Why is stratego at the level of popularity around the world that it is? Will it ever grow?

One of the things working against stratego is the lack of a stable long-term ruleset. Yes, we have the ISF, but even its rules are based upon the fairly recent 2006 Jumbo rules and have even been changed again when they went from five moves on two squares to three a few years ago.

Also, historically there've been other changes. At some point the scout's ability to attack from a distance was added. In my 1961 Milton Bradley version a scout could not attack from a distance. Now it can. Also, in 1961 the winning piece in a battle would always take the place of the loser, no matter who attacked whom, something few know about today. Plus, there has been since at least 1961 the American piece numbering system, reversing the European one.

On top of the above we have our online website from Jumbo itself where we are discussing this and where the same ISF movement rules the rest of the Western stratego world uses (that were based off Jumbo's own board game rules) are not in place here. Here we have the HmmNess Rule, a unique creation for stratego.com. In addition, we have a ten minute draw rule, and completely different rules concerning move timers, buffer timers, and total game clock limits than what the ISF uses. And this is to say nothing of the fact that even these things differ between one live ISF tourney and another.

I'm probably leaving out a few things....

All these differences and rule changes mean the world likely sees a dysfunctional face from the game, leaving it still in the realm of a kids' game, unfortunately. It's hard to say that that perception will ever change, at least in the USA where I am from. :)
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#2 Dobby125

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 03:54 PM

I think the biggest problem is that people believe it's a luck game with not much skill.  Most players seem to struggle in the 300 ELO or lower levels for 1 simple reason... they don't know how to play effectively when they fall behind.  They don't understand the concept of sacrificing pieces for information.  And that information might be time sensitive, so they have to react quickly or already have a plan in place with pieces in place to react to that information.  This is hard to learn.  That's why so many players quit as soon as they lose a top piece.  They think the game is over and they can't possibly win.  And many players get frustrated and stop playing the game totally.  I think as more players and top players post youtube videos of their games, you should see a rise in the number of Stratego players.  I think the level of play will improve as well.  


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#3 GaryLShelton

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 07:45 PM

For training, Probe has the best system. It shows all pieces of both sides. If it were a better player, it would be fantastic!

If anyone starting out tries Probe, I think they will enjoy the playback experience you can get there.
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The complete GS&F Rules can be found here: http://forum.strateg...rum-rules-2016/
Draw Refusal Rules, specifically, can be read here: http://forum.strateg...931#entry468931

#4 Morx

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 09:33 PM

I think the rules is not the main reason Stratego is where it is, but it might contribute for sure.

 

It is a game owned by a company that relies on its own sales points and on the ones that the distributors have to sell boards. In some countries this is more succesfull than others. But selling games alone does not guarantee that the number of players grows, its actually picking up that box and playing it with various people.

 

Greece is a very succesfull country in building a Stratego scene with a mix of players of all ages. Holland has a huge natural base from 50 years ago till now and some other countries also have a very high percentage of the population that knows the game. I think this helps to spread the success of the game



#5 Nortrom

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 11:09 PM

For many players this game is hard to get into. I suppose its a good topic for a blog post one day :)


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#6 General Rascal

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 11:30 PM

For training, Probe has the best system. It shows all pieces of both sides. If it were a better player, it would be fantastic!

If anyone starting out tries Probe, I think they will enjoy the playback experience you can get there.

 

 Do you use Probe on a PC? Will it run on Win 10?



#7 TemplateRex

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 12:04 AM

For many players this game is hard to get into. I suppose its a good topic for a blog post one day :)

 

Another suggestion for a topic: how much of your skill difference vs other top players is due to the various game features? Say e.g. how much % due to setup/maneuvering/patience/deception/psychology?

 

If all online games here were published (as on Gravon, but then with full names) with say a 1 year delay, would that be good or bad for the game overall? Is it that big a burden for top players to change setups after a year? Wouldn't it raise the overall level of the game if newcomers had more material to learn from?


Edited by TemplateRex, 20 December 2017 - 12:06 AM.

I hereby grant explicit permission to all my opponents to record and publish my games as they see fit.


#8 Dobby125

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 12:14 AM

 Do you use Probe on a PC? Will it run on Win 10?

 

I run it on Windows 10.  The game play is fairly predictable after you play it a few times.  I won't spoil it for you.  There was an option that allows probe to learn how you play, but I forgot what it was.  The programmer of the game posted it on this message board.  Probe is fun to play when you choose random for your setup.  It's hard to win 5 in a row when you do this.  Probe is excellent at lottoing.


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#9 Dobby125

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 12:31 AM

Another suggestion for a topic: how much of your skill difference vs other top players is due to the various game features? Say e.g. how much % due to setup/maneuvering/patience/deception/psychology?

 

If all online games here were published (as on Gravon, but then with full names) with say a 1 year delay, would that be good or bad for the game overall? Is it that big a burden for top players to change setups after a year? Wouldn't it raise the overall level of the game if newcomers had more material to learn from?

 

I wish there was an option here to playback games after playing with all the pieces revealed and the ability to view the game from the other side just like the gravon games.  It would certainly help players, that want to learn, get much better.


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#10 GaryLShelton

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 01:41 AM

I run it on Windows 10.  The game play is fairly predictable after you play it a few times.  I won't spoil it for you.  There was an option that allows probe to learn how you play, but I forgot what it was.  The programmer of the game posted it on this message board.  Probe is fun to play when you choose random for your setup.  It's hard to win 5 in a row when you do this.  Probe is excellent at lottoing.

 

 

Yes, it runs on Windows 10 easily.  I cannot find this option for learning that Dobby talks about.  But I think I vaguely recall it as well.  Probe is definitely a good lottoer.  Seems to have an uncanny knowledge of pieces.... :)

 

I like Probe.  It's a great game in a lot of ways.  It's the best AI to play against that is widely available that I'm aware of.  Great for beginning players.  Expert mode is definitely a better player than Beginner.


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The complete GS&F Rules can be found here: http://forum.strateg...rum-rules-2016/
Draw Refusal Rules, specifically, can be read here: http://forum.strateg...931#entry468931

#11 Fks

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 01:48 AM

If Stratego.com would make the app free. And advertise the game just a little bit on youtube/appstore it will most likely get a few thousand players in one day. Most people don't know your able to play here.


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#12 Dobby125

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 03:38 AM

Yes, it runs on Windows 10 easily.  I cannot find this option for learning that Dobby talks about.  But I think I vaguely recall it as well.  Probe is definitely a good lottoer.  Seems to have an uncanny knowledge of pieces.... :)

 

I like Probe.  It's a great game in a lot of ways.  It's the best AI to play against that is widely available that I'm aware of.  Great for beginning players.  Expert mode is definitely a better player than Beginner.

I found it.

 

Launch Probe

Tools/Explore Data Files

Edit ProbeAI.txt

Change the third entry to Setup Matching=Enabled

 

Here was the old thread. 


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#13 GaryLShelton

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 07:20 AM

Here's the specific post by imer in that thread, Dobby.

http://forum.strateg...1295#entry51295

Thanks for locating this for us! You're a great researcher on top of being a great stats man. :)

I was actually looking at this very section of the options that you bring up but didn't want to screw anything up so didn't mess with it.
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The complete GS&F Rules can be found here: http://forum.strateg...rum-rules-2016/
Draw Refusal Rules, specifically, can be read here: http://forum.strateg...931#entry468931

#14 Nortrom

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 08:33 PM

Probe is a great piece of software, no idea what ELO it would be ranked, but it often plays without a plan, so I doubt it would rank very high, but it should be a fair challenge to some :)


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#15 GaryLShelton

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 09:56 PM

I think Probe is about 175-200 on Beginner and about 325-350 on Expert.


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The complete GS&F Rules can be found here: http://forum.strateg...rum-rules-2016/
Draw Refusal Rules, specifically, can be read here: http://forum.strateg...931#entry468931

#16 Fks

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 10:46 PM

Gary can u suggest what I wrote to an admin or something please!


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#17 GaryLShelton

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Posted 21 December 2017 - 06:04 AM

Gary can u suggest what I wrote to an admin or something please!


Are you talking about advertising the app? If you playstore "stratego" it comes up. Not sure what you mean.
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The complete GS&F Rules can be found here: http://forum.strateg...rum-rules-2016/
Draw Refusal Rules, specifically, can be read here: http://forum.strateg...931#entry468931

#18 Fks

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Posted 21 December 2017 - 07:32 AM

That is not what I meant. Put ads on youtube,facebook,instagram. stuff like that. The site and the app can be shown in the same ad. Make the app free. Making the app free wont actually make jumbo lose money because I cant imagine that many people buying it for $7 besides hardcore players or even mediocre and they have already bought it. Also anyone with an android or galaxy can literally get it for free. Now once the app is free you put up 15 seconds ads on youtube letting people know you can download the app for free and get to playing stratego now! This can very well bring in  a few thousand players at least in my eyes. The ads will cost money and you have said in past stratego.com doesn't want to spend money or something like that. BUT THE RETURN HERE IS AMAZING. You fix the store which I am shocked has not been done since day one. From all the few thousand players you got from ads you get people buying battle coins. Plus you're getting an actual active player base which we all crave so much. From the few thousand players you get there friends and there friends friends. This is so simple to be done and is very feasible. Please reach out Gary. A few thousand people aren't a lot to get. 


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#19 Fairway

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Posted 24 December 2017 - 01:14 AM

I for one don't care for the new app at all, and many others share my view for several reasons:

 

1) childish animations

2) inability to create QA setups

3) inability to chat with friends

4) No personal achievements

 

 

Take a look at this topic, quite a landslide vote to say the least, the only person voting in favor of the "new app" was its creator :)

 

forum.stratego.com/topic/3299-new-app-vs-old-app/

 

 

http://forum.strateg...app-vs-old-app/

 

Edited by GaryLShelton, 24 December 2017 - 04:08 AM.
to give working link

4 months until flash goes bye-bye


#20 GaryLShelton

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Posted 24 December 2017 - 04:17 AM

That is not what I meant. Put ads on youtube,facebook,instagram. stuff like that. The site and the app can be shown in the same ad. Make the app free. Making the app free wont actually make jumbo lose money because I cant imagine that many people buying it for $7 besides hardcore players or even mediocre and they have already bought it. Also anyone with an android or galaxy can literally get it for free. Now once the app is free you put up 15 seconds ads on youtube letting people know you can download the app for free and get to playing stratego now! This can very well bring in  a few thousand players at least in my eyes. The ads will cost money and you have said in past stratego.com doesn't want to spend money or something like that. BUT THE RETURN HERE IS AMAZING. You fix the store which I am shocked has not been done since day one. From all the few thousand players you got from ads you get people buying battle coins. Plus you're getting an actual active player base which we all crave so much. From the few thousand players you get there friends and there friends friends. This is so simple to be done and is very feasible. Please reach out Gary. A few thousand people aren't a lot to get. 

 

 

Fks, I'm afraid I'm not a high-tech kind of guy who doesn't do Facebook/Twitter/Instagram, etc. But it sounds like a superb idea.  Unfortunately, I don't have the best idea for getting a superb idea across to the Jumbo folks.  The best possibility would be a super delegation of Dutch speaking players to approach Jumbo about addressing some of the concerns we have for what exists and improving in other ways, possibly.  I have been told by a high ranking Dutch player that this indeed did happen several months ago, to no avail, unfortunately, at least at that time. Perhaps an email campaign to customer care would help.  We Americans are on the outside here, for sure.


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The complete GS&F Rules can be found here: http://forum.strateg...rum-rules-2016/
Draw Refusal Rules, specifically, can be read here: http://forum.strateg...931#entry468931




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