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WinterTourn 2018 - Questions


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#1 TheOptician

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 04:15 PM

If you have a question about WinterTourn 2018 please ask here and a member of TC will get back to you.



#2 Unladen Swallow

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 04:18 PM

17)     Pyramid Qualification

 

The Top two players of  WinterTourn 2018 will earn a place in Apex Division of Pyramid League 2018. Players finishing 3rd to 8th will earn a place in Core Divisions of Pyramid League 2018

 

What if I finished 3rd in WinterTourn, but got a promotion to Apex from pyramid 2017? Would I still be in Apex or would I be relegated to Core? 


Edited by Unladen Swallow, 16 December 2017 - 04:18 PM.

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#3 TheOptician

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 04:25 PM

 

What if I finished 3rd in WinterTourn, but got a promotion to Apex from pyramid 2017? Would I still be in Apex or would I be relegated to Core? 

 

 

You have already won a place in Apex whatever happens in the other tournaments.


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#4 Nortrom

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 04:49 PM

5 - F.       Each STR proposed by a player must not begin within 6 hours of the time that it is proposed, in order to give their opponent adequate notice. (For example, a player may not propose an STR of Monday 15.00-17.00GMT if at the moment of suggestion the time is already Monday 09.01GMT or later)

 

Is posting a timeslot of 15.05 - 17.05 considered ok in this case?

 

 

18 - • You are only allowed to record a match if you receive permission from your opponent prior to starting the game (with proof of agreement required if necessary). Please respect the decision of your opponent. The only exceptions to consent are that you may film the sequence of moves needed for proof of Double-chasing, Draw-refusal, Prolonged chasing or intentional time-wasting.

 

How about publishing without consent? recording can't really be checked/stopped, unlike publishing.


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#5 Napoleon 1er

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 05:24 PM

I believe there is a typin mistake in the rules:

 

In the event that no arrangement has been reached by Saturday 09.00GMT, then TC will automatically arrange the match for Sunday 18.00GMT. This is on the condition that the automatic arrangement does not require a player to start the game earlier than 0800 Local Time, or later than 2200 Local Time.

 

If a player is operating in a timezone that has a time difference relative to GMT of GREATER than 7 hours, TC will shift the game (backward or forward) until the automatic arrangement falls within 0800-2200 Local Time.  (For example, a player operating in GMT +8 will not be required to play on Sunday 1800GMT, but at Sunday 2200GMT

 

 

i guess this shall be read as:

 

In the event that no arrangement has been reached by Saturday 09.00GMT, then TC will automatically arrange the match for Sunday 18.00GMT. This is on the condition that the automatic arrangement does not require a player to start the game earlier than 0800 Local Time, or later than 2200 Local Time.

 

If a player is operating in a timezone that has a time difference relative to GMT of GREATER than 7 hours, TC will shift the game (backward or forward) until the automatic arrangement falls within 0800-2200 Local Time.  (For example, a player operating in GMT +8 will not be required to play on Sunday 1800GMT, but at Sunday 2200 local time or Sunday 1400GMT


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#6 TheOptician

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 05:31 PM

I believe there is a typin mistake in the rules:

 

In the event that no arrangement has been reached by Saturday 09.00GMT, then TC will automatically arrange the match for Sunday 18.00GMT. This is on the condition that the automatic arrangement does not require a player to start the game earlier than 0800 Local Time, or later than 2200 Local Time.

 

If a player is operating in a timezone that has a time difference relative to GMT of GREATER than 7 hours, TC will shift the game (backward or forward) until the automatic arrangement falls within 0800-2200 Local Time.  (For example, a player operating in GMT +8 will not be required to play on Sunday 1800GMT, but at Sunday 2200GMT

 

 

i guess this shall be read as:

 

In the event that no arrangement has been reached by Saturday 09.00GMT, then TC will automatically arrange the match for Sunday 18.00GMT. This is on the condition that the automatic arrangement does not require a player to start the game earlier than 0800 Local Time, or later than 2200 Local Time.

 

If a player is operating in a timezone that has a time difference relative to GMT of GREATER than 7 hours, TC will shift the game (backward or forward) until the automatic arrangement falls within 0800-2200 Local Time.  (For example, a player operating in GMT +8 will not be required to play on Sunday 1800GMT, but at Sunday 2200 local time or Sunday 1400GMT

 

Thanks, corrected.



#7 TheOptician

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 05:35 PM

5 - F.       Each STR proposed by a player must not begin within 6 hours of the time that it is proposed, in order to give their opponent adequate notice. (For example, a player may not propose an STR of Monday 15.00-17.00GMT if at the moment of suggestion the time is already Monday 09.01GMT or later)

 

Is posting a timeslot of 15.05 - 17.05 considered ok in this case?

 

Yes

 

 

18 - • You are only allowed to record a match if you receive permission from your opponent prior to starting the game (with proof of agreement required if necessary). Please respect the decision of your opponent. The only exceptions to consent are that you may film the sequence of moves needed for proof of Double-chasing, Draw-refusal, Prolonged chasing or intentional time-wasting.

 

How about publishing without consent? recording can't really be checked/stopped, unlike publishing.

 

Publishing without consent is also not allowed. This update has now been made to the rules.



#8 ☆OVERLORD☆

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 09:46 PM

I think that i can't play in this tournament. Right?

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#9 TheOptician

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 10:37 PM

I think that i can't play in this tournament. Right?

That is correct



#10 tobermoryx

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 08:09 PM

 

 

• You are only allowed to record a match if you receive permission from your opponent prior to starting the game (with proof of agreement required if necessary). Please respect the decision of your opponent. The only exceptions to consent are that you may film the sequence of moves needed for proof of Double-chasing, Draw-refusal, Prolonged chasing or intentional time-wasting. Publishing a game without consent of the opponent is also not allowed.

 

Why do players have the right to stop opponents recording the game ? !  It is not their game that belongs only to one player , and what the opponent does on his pc is none of their business frankly ! .  Maybe their should be permission for screenshots to be taken too ( other than victory screen ) as principle is the same.

 

Not at all enforceable either of course.

 

Obviously i can see why permission is considered proper for actually making the video public , but that is quite different . 


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#11 Major Nelson

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 08:21 PM

Why do players have the right to stop opponents recording the game ? !  It is not their game that belongs only to one player , and what the opponent does on his pc is none of their business frankly ! .  Maybe their should be permission for screenshots to be taken too ( other than victory screen ) as principle is the same.

 

Not at all enforceable either of course.

 

Obviously i can see why permission is considered proper for actually making the video public , but that is quite different . 

I think that most players would have a problem with the video being made public. I agree that your opponent should have the right to record the game for his own purposes as long as it remains private. Only in order to upload it should he need your consensus as well.


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#12 TheOptician

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 08:47 PM

This rule pre-dates my time in TC, so I don't know what the original logic was.

I can think of a couple of good reasons though.

Recording a tournament game in live Stratego is I believe currently not allowed and online should aim to emulate the live game (as far as possible). Taking notes during a live game is also forbidden - and recording a match is the purest form of note-taking.

I don't think one players desire to record a match should necessarily trump another players desire for privacy.

I suppose at the right frequency taking screenshots could be considered recording.

#13 tobermoryx

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 09:06 PM

That doesn't seem a good reason to me.

 

I would think note taking in live play is wrong because it assists in the game being played ( eg you note the squares where pieces moved and don't have to rely on memory ) . Also having someone standing over your shoulder making a video could be distracting , as could having someone standing above your opponents shoulder . So it is not very practical is all .

 

The origin of the rule not being known i would speculate that it was intended as a rule against making videos public , that was worded in that more draconian way.


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#14 TheOptician

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 09:59 PM

That doesn't seem a good reason to me.

 

I would think note taking in live play is wrong because it assists in the game being played ( eg you note the squares where pieces moved and don't have to rely on memory ) . Also having someone standing over your shoulder making a video could be distracting , as could having someone standing above your opponents shoulder . So it is not very practical is all .

 

The origin of the rule not being known i would speculate that it was intended as a rule against making videos public , that was worded in that more draconian way.

 

Note taking gives advantages beyond just the game being played.

 

 

>I don't think one players desire to record a match should necessarily trump another players desire for privacy. 

And this one?



#15 tobermoryx

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 10:14 PM

If he wants privacy in that sense he should just play against the computer!

The opponent does not find out any more by watching the video than he does by playing the game in the first place.

#16 Nortrom

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 10:39 PM

Not correct. You can watch back the moves and reconstruct one's setup.


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#17 tobermoryx

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 02:53 AM

They could do that .  It's true they would have a more precise knowledge of starting positions of pieces etc , rather than just where the bombs were and where the marshal came from.

 

Ultimately though it would be of no use to them unless their opponent used the same set up in the next match he played against them . And if he did that he would of course deserve to lose anyway .



#18 tobermoryx

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 02:57 AM

The only way i could see, that a player recording the game and not making it public could aid cheating  ,would be if the player shared the video with a 3rd party, who was going to face the same player in the next round .

 

But if someone is going to go that low , then they are hardly going to worry about recording without permission (which could never be found out anyway ) , so the rule seems entirely misconceived and quite useless .



#19 TheOptician

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 09:54 AM

When you play a game with someone you accept that they are going to learn information (and vice versa) about how you play (how you set-up, what pieces are behind other pieces, how you move etc etc). How much information they retain is limited by the capacity of their memory.

If a player records a game, then while they gain no advantage during that game, they will be able to later collect information beyond the ability of their memory. To say that recordings are only of use if the opponent uses the exact same set-up again is a little narrow.

Every time I play Napoleon for example, he asks if it is ok to record (I always say yes by the way). But if he wanted to, he could put together a number of statistics about bomb placement, piece position, likely moves, flag locations, proximity of marsh and gen.

In poker you can estimate the chance of winning a hand. With data compiled from recordings, Napoleon could tell me that the piece hiding behind my captain has a 42% chance of being a colonel, or that I keep a Sargent behind a bomb on only 4% of occasions. Some players have put together set-up stats to inform decision-making from general averages of piece placements. That information would be more valuable if it applied to specific players. I would venture that the main reason that some players would object to having a game recorded is because they are offering more information to their opponent that may (later) give them a strategic advantage.

So when I use the word 'privacy' I mean it in this sense - keeping information restricted to being available during the game - as it was intended in keeping with it being a game that involves memory.

This is only my opinion of course, perhaps I am in the minority, and perhaps TC should take a poll on this issue.

#20 Nortrom

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 11:10 AM

The ultimate issue is that it's not possible to prevent recording, hence WCO also doesn't forbid it.

 

"

9. Recording and sharing
 
9.1. A player may record his / her own game at any time. The WCO team would prefer that permission is given by the opponent, but since it is hard to tell if a game is being recorded, we can not require this. In case you wish to record a game, the WCO team would prefer that permission is asked.
9.2. A recording may only be published / shared (whether publicly or privately) in case there is an agreement from the opponent. In case a video is shown without permission, the WCO team will ask for the removal of the video in which case the participant must comply. (tip: put the agreement of the opponent on the video). "
 
I don't think you can enforce it, unfortunately.

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