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#1 OuweSok

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 06:50 PM

Yeah, I recorded my first video. And I thought it was a pretty neat game. Of course, after replaying I saw a lot of inaccuracies. But still I am very happy with how I played. I managed to not forget his Marshal! Enjoy!

https://www.youtube....h?v=evu4HE574JE


New link provided by OuweSok: https://www.youtube....h?v=iMOAhB08qD4

Edited by GaryLShelton, 17 October 2017 - 12:19 AM.
Add new correct link provided by OuweSok

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#2 OuweSok

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 08:11 PM

oh and if anyone sees obvious flaws in my setup or gameplay, let me know. The main reason that I recorded this is to review my game and get better.


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#3 KissMyCookie

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 09:34 PM

It was a terrific pleasure to watch you take apart your opponent. His playing style has changed since I encountered him the first time. About two months ago, he would make a straight marshal blitz and lotto without too much thought–especially when a spy was on hand to take him down. Clearly, he has learned a little bit along the way in that he has more restraint when using his marshal, but it is still a poor tactic in my estimation. Proof of this statement is the manner in which you took apart his army and out-strategized him. In spite of the fact that you were behind a major, and then a captain, clearly you had deduced the potential location of his flag. Watching you calculate your final assault and then capture his flag was fun to watch!  :)

 

At this moment, I have nothing to say about your technique as I have not scrutinized the entire game, (I thought that your control over your movements, your patience, and your considerate thinking were excellent in handling a very stressful situation), but I have no doubt that some of the very skilled players will offer some feedback more valuable than mine. Again, I really enjoyed watching you take your opponent down to the mat and wrestle an excellent victory.

 

Well done and bravo!  :D



#4 DarthRemark

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Posted 19 September 2017 - 02:52 AM

oh and if anyone sees obvious flaws in my setup or gameplay, let me know. The main reason that I recorded this is to review my game and get better.

Congrats on the win! :)  I had some time tonight so decided to watch your game and found myself taking notes...lol. Here they are.  Hope they help.


3:26 – he’s given you a clear path to the left side.  At this point you should attack with gen.  Take out the front pieces and flank the marshal.  Force him to pull his marshal back or trade with you.  Otherwise hee might find your col and hit it or trap it if his gen is on same side.  You’ll get insight into his set by flushing gen too.
3:48 – why waste the scout?
5:11 – bad move.  if his gen is on same side you’re in trouble.  Move the cap out instead.  Then you can move marsh up, col back or fake with serg.
5:33 – you’re moving too much.  You won’t be able to defend it once you show marsh.  You need to attack with gen now and force him to trade.  You’ll get a piece or two first.  His gen is probably right behind the lake. 
5:48 – ok, that will be col and spy behind lake.  He’s probably going to try to sit on the major lead.  This should be easy.  Attack the right side with your other two majors.  Kill stuff until he trades with them.
6:18 – don’t waste the scout.  Move the major up first at least in case you find something.
7:20 – move the maj to the right instead.  You need to kill that cap even if a col is there (unlikely).  Now he can hit maj with low piece and cap can go back and forth.
8:07 – don’t waste the scout.  Move the miner behind where gen started up and hit that piece.  It’s probably bomb.
9:19 – you need to save that col.  You will have two chances to get the maj back (when you show marsh and col).  Don’t waste them. 
9:50 – don’t waste the col.  That’s probably col on front row.
12:33 – don’t move serg away.  You need to fake him as marsh or spy.
13:08 – you don’t need to move spy.  You need to continue attacking right side.  Bring miner and cap up.
14:26 – move maj left instead.  That way he can block while you move other stuff up and is in better position for the tradeoffs if your marsh gets found. 
14:47 – no, move left with the piece on the back row to keep him trapped.  You should be able to get him before you flush another major. 
15:48 – prob best to move marsh over now.  He’s going to get found and you need at least a cap for him. 
16:02 – that was bad.  He is a weak player trying to sit on his lead.  No way that was a major.
18:00 – don’t waste that move.  he’s given away his majors by his movements.  You needed to get in the front door and kill the spy while his maj was out of position.
20:06 – move luey behind right lake instead.  Use him and cap to kill the right side walker.  You should move marsh to the right first to keep maj from interfering.
20:17 – you don’t need to move scout yet.  His flag is free and you don’t have the high piece.  You might need scout to win at the end.
20:22 – now you are in trouble.  His maj is free.
20:48 – why reveal scout?
21:21 – you needed that scout.  you are still in good shape.  He has maj but you are ahead in material.  Bleed him.  He will have to move more as you do and the flag will become clear.
23:10 – no, the walker is a miner or he would have killed serg.  Chase miners and force marsh to left.  His flag is obvious.  He can’t block marsh and serg.
23:25 – well, that worked too. :)
23:34 – congrats!  You should have hit the miner first though on the off chance it was a bomb.  You could still come back and hit it before maj gets there and will at least have a miner for it.

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#5 OuweSok

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Posted 19 September 2017 - 07:31 AM

oh wow fellow Sith, thank you. We should exchange avatars as you are the Master and I am the Apprentice.

 

I saw various of the mistakes you pointed out, some of them with the two square rule (14:47). I think me moving too many pieces is inherent to being just a silver player, It is hard for me to find that one correct plan.

 

Around 9 min I moved the colonel up, not because I wanted to waste it, as his front line pieces were obvious, but to avoid his colonel entering my position after showing my Marshal. Also I wasn't too worried about being a Major down, I had much more info and quite a bit more pieces.

 

Around the 20 minutes mark I seriously considered giving up my Marshal for his major. I think I should have done it, because it is another 1-for-1, reduces his quality advantage as I still have my spy and 4 more pieces.


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#6 DarthRemark

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Posted 20 September 2017 - 02:40 AM

Lol.  You’ve got a good understanding of the game you just need to work on execution.  I noticed you seemed indecisive at points.  You need to realize what you need to do and do it (but always be prepared to change with the situation).  The moves are a problem.  Don't move without purpose and never, ever, miss moves.  Two squares should be muscle memory.  My main advice is to work on this.  When you play the top players you will see that they don’t make mistakes.  They know exactly what to do and will not miss movements.  I was also surprised to see you waste some scouts.  Especially the last one.  Every piece is important.  I know you understand that because you had a great game theory post a few weeks ago.
 
Ok, I understand moving the col now.  You still moved him too early.  Your marsh wasn’t in serious danger of being found at that point.  The best defense against that was to continue attacking the right side and make him spend moves reacting.  Best to keep the col mysterious until you have a chance to snatch a maj. 
 
Yes, you could have traded marsh for maj and won.  I thought you showed some discipline not doing it though.  It was 99% sure that was maj, and you probably could have won even if it wasn’t, but why risk it when you didn’t have to?  The mistake was not moving marsh to right.  If you’re not going to hit the maj you need to contain him.  

But wins are fun so enjoy! :)

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#7 OuweSok

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Posted 20 September 2017 - 05:46 AM

When I moved that last scout out it was specifically for b8. This piece had not moved and I wanted to eliminate it as potential flag.

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#8 DarthRemark

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Posted 21 September 2017 - 02:42 AM

When I moved that last scout out it was specifically for b8. This piece had not moved and I wanted to eliminate it as potential flag.

Yes but you didn't need to at that point.  It was unlikely that it was the flag as you had two back row pieces still on that side, one in the same lane, and he made no attempt to protect it.  You could have bled him more.  He probably would have had to move that piece eventually.



#9 GaryLShelton

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Posted 21 September 2017 - 04:16 AM

DR, your analysis is awesome! Worth paying for, I'll tell you.

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#10 tobermoryx

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Posted 21 September 2017 - 04:31 AM

Yes that's pretty good .

 

I didn't go into this in much depth myself . While the tactics can be criticized in detail  I thought your strategy was good overall .

 

The only big decision i didn't like was exchanging Generals.

 

When someone Marshal blitzes me on the left i always assume (can't recall ever being wrong with these sort of players) that the General is in the centre by the lake , with  Spy next to him . On the right there will be nothing big so far away from the Marshal and i attack there with a Colonel. 

 

That way my General remains unknown til late and usually gets a good piece , instead of just hitting a Scout and meeting the other General.


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#11 OuweSok

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Posted 21 September 2017 - 05:50 AM

It is observed that tobermoryx is responding to this thread at 05:30 local time.

It is also observed that darthremark and tobermoryx are not agreeing. One says I should attack with the general through the center and the other doesn't like it.

With my marshal quite close to the fire I tend to agree with my Sith companion.

Probably I should have hit the known sergeant before hitting the left front center piece

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#12 DarthRemark

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Posted 23 September 2017 - 05:30 AM

DR, your analysis is awesome! Worth paying for, I'll tell you.

Wow, that’s quite a compliment, Gary.  Thank you, Sir.  I’m PMing you my Paypal address right now.  ;) 



#13 DarthRemark

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Posted 23 September 2017 - 05:42 AM

The only big decision i didn't like was exchanging Generals.

 

I advised trading gens mainly due to the quality of the opponent.  I’m my experience weak players will either play so conservatively that you can pick them apart or they will be overly aggressive and take unreasonable chances.  Given that he showed his marsh right out of the gate I suspected this one was aggressive.  That marsh was too close to a col OuweSok could not protect.  He needed to take the bullets out of his opponent’s gun.  With the gen gone the col can safely evade marsh.  It also induces fear and hope into the opponent.  Fear that if he’s too risky he’ll lose his marsh and, with an unknown enemy marsh still out there and no gen, he won’t be able to recover.  And hope that since he’s up a maj with the gens already gone that he just needs to trade 3 more pieces to have an invincible piece.  Both make him timid, which is fatal because OuweSok can use the info to bleed him dry.
 
But even against a good player I would trade gens most of the time.  Weak players use predictable sets like the opponent here, but better players play anything anywhere.  If you send a col against the opposite side and lose him to a tricky gen you’ll have trouble even though you have all the info.  It’s a safer play to just trade the gen and get the insight.  OuweSok already knew one col too, so now all he had to do was flush the second and he’d have info supremacy with his marsh and col still unknown.  That’s a great place to be as he can do anything he wants now but the opponent always has to fear being stung. 

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#14 DarthRemark

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Posted 23 September 2017 - 05:46 AM

It is observed that tobermoryx is responding to this thread at 05:30 local time.

It is also observed that darthremark and tobermoryx are not agreeing. One says I should attack with the general through the center and the other doesn't like it.

With my marshal quite close to the fire I tend to agree with my Sith companion.

Probably I should have hit the known sergeant before hitting the left front center piece

 

Thanks for siding with me. :)  It wasn't a big deal that you missed the serg.  If it was a luey you should have grabbed it, but there was a decent chance he had something in front of the gen and that piece could have evaded if you hit serg first.  It was probably better to strike blind and hope for something.  You can clean up serg later. 


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#15 Unladen Swallow

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Posted 23 September 2017 - 03:24 PM

Sacrifice marsh on his gen, then take your general and smash it into the cluster of colonels and majors that are hunched up near the middle.
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#16 OuweSok

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Posted 23 September 2017 - 04:40 PM

Sacrifice marsh on his gen, then take your general and smash it into the cluster of colonels and majors that are hunched up near the middle.

 

First, one colonel was already not over there. Secondly, my marsh is too far away and by the time this is set up, he might be too close too my flag or has made sufficient space for his pieces to run away from my general.

 

I am aware of the merits of his play, but I'm sure you will agree that this is not the game for it.


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#17 Unladen Swallow

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Posted 23 September 2017 - 07:02 PM

I didn't watch the game but that's my general advice for marshal blitzers. There's usually a cluster of pieces in the middle to take. Of course it's a bit more tricky if your flag is on the side the opponent's marshal blitzes on. 


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#18 OuweSok

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Posted 24 September 2017 - 09:06 PM

Another video, vs a Silver Colonel. Entertainment value is lower than the previous. An underwhelming game from his side.

https://www.youtube....h?v=F9HpaKK5zQY

Game is at double speed. I am a slow player, so this will save you some time.

I think I did fine until 07:10 but then I needed to get my spy on the right side, before advancing on all fronts. I got into unnecessary trouble at 09:20. He dd not press on with his marshal and managed to misguess my big pieces, so this ended up being an easy win.


New link provided by OuweSok:
https://www.youtube....h?v=S0t1kLojkH8

Edited by GaryLShelton, 17 October 2017 - 12:22 AM.
Add new correct link provided by OuweSok

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#19 tobermoryx

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 07:04 AM

 

I advised trading gens mainly due to the quality of the opponent.  I’m my experience weak players will either play so conservatively that you can pick them apart or they will be overly aggressive and take unreasonable chances.  Given that he showed his marsh right out of the gate I suspected this one was aggressive.  That marsh was too close to a col OuweSok could not protect.  He needed to take the bullets out of his opponent’s gun.  With the gen gone the col can safely evade marsh.  It also induces fear and hope into the opponent.  Fear that if he’s too risky he’ll lose his marsh and, with an unknown enemy marsh still out there and no gen, he won’t be able to recover.  And hope that since he’s up a maj with the gens already gone that he just needs to trade 3 more pieces to have an invincible piece.  Both make him timid, which is fatal because OuweSok can use the info to bleed him dry.
 
But even against a good player I would trade gens most of the time.  Weak players use predictable sets like the opponent here, but better players play anything anywhere.  If you send a col against the opposite side and lose him to a tricky gen you’ll have trouble even though you have all the info.  It’s a safer play to just trade the gen and get the insight.  OuweSok already knew one col too, so now all he had to do was flush the second and he’d have info supremacy with his marsh and col still unknown.  That’s a great place to be as he can do anything he wants now but the opponent always has to fear being stung. 

 

 

 

This player was just a standard Marshal Blitzer .  So he will be entirely predictable in the level of risk he is prepared to take .

 

I was stuck at the level of these players ( 350-450) for a long time in my first year on this site , and still run into them sometimes now .I'd say i've played a minimum of 600 games against them .

 

I genuinely cannot remember any one of them that did not have most or all the following elements to their set up/playstyle..

 

If Marshal Blitz is begun on your left (it usually is ,maybe right handedness is a factor ) then their centre and right side are purely for defence . The centre has 2 weak pieces in front with General next to or behind one of them , with Spy next to General  .The right side typically has no piece higher than a Lieutenant and is either entirely bombed in or has at least 3 , maybe 4 or more bombs scattered around to make a successful lotto improbable .Neither the centre or right will move until the Marshal Blitz has ended , ideally with an exchange. The set up is basically designed to invite their opponent to attack with General and get absolutely nothing. 

 

You don't really need to be concerned with the General coming around to help trap your Colonel .The only time a blitzer might be tempted into this is if your Colonel ran past their Marsh into his own zone .But i wouldn't even be concerned about that as it is more of an opportunity . 

 

The biggest concern against these players is to keep your highest pieces secret . So i would rather move my unknown Marshal towards the centre .Leaving him near the left to guard other pieces is not advisable as the Marshal exchange is what they pin most of their hopes on , and if he blitzes enough pieces on your left then your Marsh might not have cover to avoid being scouted . 

 

The Marshal Blitz strategy is basically

 

1. Attack with Marshal . Gain a Major and Lieutenant . Exchange Marshals.

2. Attack with General , hope opponent is anxious to exchange that too . Kill a Captain the opponent moved in order to get General out.

3. Repeat with Colonels.

4. Up Major ,Captain ,Lieutenant , with likely only 2 lanes really open. 

 

If you are expecting from past experience or the ELO level that you'll be playing one of these guys then best to have flag in a central position . Bombs in first 2 rows not good as a blitzer is not a lottoer , at least initially , and will Scout pieces .


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#20 tobermoryx

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 08:11 AM

Another video, vs a Silver Colonel. Entertainment value is lower than the previous. An underwhelming game from his side.

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=F9HpaKK5zQY

 

Game is at double speed. I am a slow player, so this will save you some time.

 

I think I did fine until 07:10 but then I needed to get my spy on the right side, before advancing on all fronts. I got into unnecessary trouble at 09:20. He dd not press on with his marshal and managed to misguess my big pieces, so this ended up being an easy win.

 

I didn't think it was a very good game from your side there either really . As you say between the 7 and 10 minutes . I thought you were playing well up til then and i liked your patience with the info advantage .

 

He certainly messed up with how many pieces he moved after revealing his Marshal , i began to wonder if he had any bombs as everything seemed to be moving .

 

The worst thing was why you didn't attack with your Colonel the pieces he'd moved on the right once his Marshal moved away from them . Even if you'd exchanged that was fine at that point , as , although you were down a Major  , you had 5 or 6 pieces on him numerically , with an unknown Marshal and no Spy to worry about.  It turned out instead of making a decisive gain you lost a Captain when his Marshal came back there and would have lost a Major too if he'd been more bold (as he needed to be by then).

 

Also your memory was really bad in this match . Your General had a free kill on a moved piece @7:38 but you forgot it had moved . Then later your Marshal was sat next to another moved piece for a couple of minutes ( a Lieutenant ) .


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