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Max or Ender?


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Poll: Pick your side (18 member(s) have cast votes)

Max or Ender?

  1. Max (15 votes [83.33%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 83.33%

  2. Ender (3 votes [16.67%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 16.67%

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#1 OuweSok

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Posted 04 September 2017 - 08:51 PM

https://www.youtube....h?v=bNVVKKO4SKY

 

After the Colonel is captured by the Marshal, which side do you prefer?

Do you want to play almost an entire game with your Marshal known and defend the material you are up or do you prefer to be the one that is material down and think you can get it back with interest?

 

(material is Colonel+Captain vs Sergeant + Major)


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#2 Unladen Swallow

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Posted 04 September 2017 - 09:00 PM

I'd prefer to be max there. Ender is in bad shape after marshal is revealed IMO


Edited by Unladen Swallow, 04 September 2017 - 09:04 PM.

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#3 Napoleon 1er

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Posted 04 September 2017 - 10:25 PM

me too, this game start is clearly an advantage for Max. Ender has to constantly scout the pieces that would approach his marsh to close, losing minor pieces. Max can play very clever with his gen and marsh to recuperate the lost col and possibly get first a 50/50 on Ender's gen with his marsh


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#4 Edmond Dantes 1844

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 03:51 PM

This is a great question and topic, Ouwesok. Two platinum players have already commented on their feelings, and they are unqualified experts in Stratego. As this is the start of the game, the revelation of the marshal is devastating because already, Max can have a fair idea where to determine the exact placement of the general–EnderWiggin has absolutely no significant information. I've heard it said many times by top players, find the marshal and you hold tremendous power–find the general, too, and you control the game. As I have learned, the investment of a colonel for a major to learn where the whereabouts of the general or marshal is an excellent investment. Being down one captain is not too bad either.



#5 OuweSok

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 03:59 PM

Ender has to constantly scout the pieces that would approach his marsh to close, losing minor pieces.

I suppose you mean General?

aorn the voting is 9-0, so nobody wants to reveal their marshal this early for this material.

Suppose ender plays it differently and allows his trapped major to be captured and NOT recapture. Would that have been better?

In that case you are down a major and sergeant for a captain, know a colonel and gave a strong misinformation to your opponent about that lakepiece not being your Marshal. How do you like Ender's spot then?

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#6 Don_Homer

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 04:23 PM

Definitely Ender seeing Max setup. I didnt check enders setup. Ender is doing ok regardless of setups having cap +colo for major and known marshall.

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#7 Edmond Dantes 1844

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 04:27 PM

I suppose you mean General?

 

No, I believe that Napoleon is suggesting that the marshal is now vulnerable. Making an approach towards the marshal might come in the form of a combination 2 unknown pieces approach–one may be the spy. And, guarding his marshal with his colonel is a rather expensive proposition–two power pieces tied up doing nothing?

 

As for keeping the marshal undisclosed, this would definitely be a rather daring bit of play/misinformation, but it is highly risky. Watching this game, it becomes rather clear that EnderWiggin has created a huge problem for himself as the center lane activity begins to unfold. In any case, the primary mission of Ender, should he have chosen to keep his marshal a secret, would obviously be to find Max's general.

 

Ender's big mistake (as the game was played with marsh taking colo) was not making a full fledged attack with his marshal and colonel (he was up a colonel and could invest it to find the general or take out the other colonel). Instead, he go tangled up with unknown pieces and a potential spy trap. All of this would have been exposed had he entered immediately with the colonel and marshal.


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#8 Napoleon 1er

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 05:43 PM

I confirm i meant the marsh not the gen. This known marsh is about useless as lo g as to many pieces are unknown each of them being potentially the spy. This known marsh cannot be used for attacks unless accompanied by a squad of scouting pieces as he always risks the spy and as max will always make sure no important piece is in direct capturable position. Maximum he can defend on one side or in center. Only later when much less unknown pieces will remain on the board he may attack again.
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#9 Moghedien

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 06:50 PM

I agree with what is said, trading a col for a major and have marsh info I would take all of the time. However, were I in the position of Ender here, maybe I would attack with the marsh regardless of the risk of the spy on that side. Because otherwise, it is true what Napoleon says and especially someone of the calibre of Max will make the info advantage count. If Ender attacks with the marsh there is a fair chance of the spy being elsewhere and maybe capture another important piece. Which would give him the advantage. Losing the marsh however would end the game of course. Against a lesser player I would not attack but against Max or another high ranked player I think I would take the risk. (and in this case, with the set up of Max known, of course lose... :wacko: )


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#10 Moghedien

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 08:17 PM

I agree with what is said, trading a col for a major and have marsh info I would take all of the time. However, were I in the position of Ender here, maybe I would attack with the marsh regardless of the risk of the spy on that side. Because otherwise, it is true what Napoleon says and especially someone of the calibre of Max will make the info advantage count. If Ender attacks with the marsh there is a fair chance of the spy being elsewhere and maybe capture another important piece. Which would give him the advantage. Losing the marsh however would end the game of course. Against a lesser player I would not attack but against Max or another high ranked player I think I would take the risk. (and in this case, with the set up of Max known, of course lose... :wacko: )

LOL, bad tactics, I did it against Yellowhat just now and lost my marsh straightaway. 


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#11 OuweSok

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 09:29 PM

Two other games where Marshals became known very early are Tobermoryx vs Astros and Hielco vs M2C. Hielco got a Lieut, Sarge, Miner, Scout and location of the Marshal out of a Major and still lost. M2C got aggressive with his Marshal, captured at least three front pieces and dodged the spy. 


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#12 Unladen Swallow

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 06:23 AM

LOL, bad tactics, I did it against Yellowhat just now and lost my marsh straightaway.

I don'the understand the motive here.

The Marsh would be detected for cheap. Yellowhammer would be unlikely to give yout a good piece after his marshal is known.

It would also be a mistake, in my opinion, to bring general out immediatEly after Marsh is known. Middling pieces need to be found first, then those middle ranked pieces can be trapped.

Edited by Unladen Swallow, 08 September 2017 - 06:27 AM.

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#13 Moghedien

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 06:48 AM

I don'the understand the motive here.
The Marsh would be detected for cheap. Yellowhammer would be unlikely to give yout a good piece after his marshal is known.
It would also be a mistake, in my opinion, to bring general out immediatEly after Marsh is known. Middling pieces need to be found first, then those middle ranked pieces can be trapped.


Yes Unladen Swallow. You are totally right of course. But I had detected 3 majors and two of them were on my left in his area. My marsh was going through the middle to cut them off and my gen was on my left (had not moved at that point) ready to pounce. So I had a plan actually. However three of his pieces on my left had moved, two of which were majors and one was unknown. And that was his spy. Had that been another piece I probably would have got at least one major.

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#14 Fairway

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 03:16 AM

This probably my all time favorite youtube stratego video. Very informative to show what to do when you are down. I think that if the two players are of equal strength in the game I would prefer Ender's situation because he is up both the colonel and the captain. However , because Max is Max ,he will of course win.. lol

 

I love what Max does here, he keeps Ender occupied on the left by moving lots of pieces to keep the marshal there for fear of general being on that side and taking all the pieces he's moved. Max recognizes this and moves around and bluffs smaller pieces in the middle, meaning Ender must sacrifice smaller pieces to find out Max's marsh and gen, but he is largely unsuccessful and Ender ends up being down on these lower pieces in the endgame.


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