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Quick Arena Tournament - Questions


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#1 Mr. Smith

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Posted 21 January 2016 - 07:19 PM

If you have any questions about the Quick Arena Tournament, feel free to post them here! The TC will answer as soon as possible.



#2 Moriarty

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Posted 21 January 2016 - 09:14 PM

Wasnt cflag on the TC?


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#3 Mr. Smith

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Posted 21 January 2016 - 11:29 PM

He was, but he finished his work for the TC after the WinterTourn.



#4 steelers

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Posted 21 January 2016 - 11:40 PM

1 question.  Since it is a best of 3, what happens if I win 1 and draw 2 against my opponent.  Am I the winner, or do we play until one person wins twice?

Or if we tie all 3, is the next game sudden death, or do we continue to play until 1 person wins twice?



#5 Mr. Smith

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Posted 22 January 2016 - 06:51 AM

If you win 1 and draw 2, you are in the next round, because you have an advantage after the regular games.

 

In the case of 3 draws the 4th game will be the decider (or after 4 draws the 5th game which will rarely happen).



#6 Master Mind

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Posted 27 January 2016 - 07:31 AM

Hey, in the rules there was: 'double-chasing isn't allowed. Counter-chasing is allowed'

 

What are these, and what is the difference?


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#7 Mr. Smith

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Posted 27 January 2016 - 12:37 PM

I'd like to quote GaryLShelton here because he explained it very well:

 

"Double chasing is chasing generally done by the same player with two separate pieces in two different places on the board. It could even be that there is a third instance of chasing going on by the same player, in which case the proper name for this practice would be "multiple chasing". The whole raison d'etre for a player doing this is to circumvent the Two Squares Rule. By alternating his chases from one situation to the other, or even a third, he averts the enforcement power of the 2S Rule, and can literally chase as long as he and his opponent want to play the game.* This is common knowledge. 

A much less talked about offense is something called "counter chasing". Counter chasing occurs when a player with a trapped piece tries to avoid capture of that piece by initiating a chase (a "counter chase") against his opponent somewhere else on the board. So the main difference to double chasing is that both players are involved. One is threatening with the trap, the other with the counter chase to fend him off. The benefit for the player with the trapped piece is, of course, once again an end-around the Two Squares Rule. He can alternate evading and chasing all day long, and the poor fellow who did the trapping cannot capture his prize without the cost of giving up something in return. A number of people have decried this practice as something they would like to see banned just the same as single chasing is and double chasing might become. They feel counter chasing is a thwarting of the Two Squares Rule the same as other bad chasing behaviors. 

 

http://forum.strateg...ounter-chasing/



#8 Master Mind

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Posted 27 January 2016 - 02:37 PM

But I don't understand why counterchasing is wrong. When you can't do anything with one piece because you can't move anywhere, why wouldn't it be allowed to threat a piece of your opponent, with another peace of you?


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#9 Mr. Smith

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Posted 27 January 2016 - 07:58 PM

That's why counter chasing is allowed. Just had a situation in a game yesterday: I trapped my opponent with the two-square rule in the left corner, he chased me with another higher piece on the right side of the board. We decided to tie.


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#10 Master Mind

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Posted 27 January 2016 - 08:57 PM

But how can you do double chasing? You can't move 2 times in one turn. And how can you prevent double-chasing?


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#11 Mr. Smith

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Posted 27 January 2016 - 09:16 PM

I think you have not understand what double chasing means, I can't explain it very good but I'll try. :D

 

Let's say player A has a general and player B a colonel, standing diagonal across from the opponent. player B is able to save his colonel by the two-square rule.

player A has also a major and player B a captain in the same situation somewhere else on the board.

 

player A doesn't want him to escape, so he uses his general and major rotatory to chase player B endless.

 

This is not allowed. 

 

How to prevent this? I assume gravon's software can recognize and stop double chasing, but stratego.com not. That's an improvement we're all waiting for.


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#12 Fairway

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Posted 27 January 2016 - 11:02 PM

I think you have not understand what double chasing means, I can't explain it very good but I'll try. :D

 

Let's say player A has a general and player B a colonel, standing diagonal across from the opponent. player B is able to save his colonel by the two-square rule.

player A has also a major and player B a captain in the same situation somewhere else on the board.

 

player A doesn't want him to escape, so he uses his general and major rotatory to chase player B endless.

 

This is not allowed. 

 

How to prevent this? I assume gravon's software can recognize and stop double chasing, but stratego.com not. That's an improvement we're all waiting for.

Very well explained. ;-)


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#13 Fairway

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Posted 27 January 2016 - 11:02 PM

This is probably in the rules somewhere and I just forgot it, but if you win in first 2 games do you need to play the third game?


Edited by Fairway, 27 January 2016 - 11:03 PM.

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#14 Mr. Smith

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Posted 28 January 2016 - 10:54 AM

This is probably in the rules somewhere and I just forgot it, but if you win in first 2 games do you need to play the third game?

 

Rule 1b), "The third game only has to be played if both opponents are not able to win the first two games."


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#15 trickz

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Posted 31 January 2016 - 02:24 AM

Look, it's very simple : suppose I have my flag in the bottom corner and my marsh and gen are both around it guarding both the miners and those are the only pawns left it means a classic tie.

If you define this as double chasing, then it's really stupid. I only want to defend my flag since I can't attack.

I have the ranks to do so and I will.

In no circumstance will I allow my opponent to win the game cuz' he can't.

Or it's a tie or he loses but in no way I'm gonna lose.

 

In full games tournaments, there is also no anti double chase rule so why should there be one here?

If you allow counterchasing, then the game is also going to continue forever cuz' with every attack of the trapped piece by the two square rule, your opponent will fullbind with another piece and both players can't afford to let go and will not do so but I guess according to the stupid ISF-rules this is allowed?

I'm pretty sure there is nothing mentionned in the 'official' rules regarding counterchasing nor an exact detailed CORRECT definition of to double chase.

With this being the case, it's clearly legit to both double-and counterchase.


Edited by trickz, 31 January 2016 - 02:31 AM.

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#16 Moriarty

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 06:53 AM

I agree with trickz


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#17 Napoleon 1er

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 04:13 PM

We have analyzed this cornered flag situation quite a lot and the outcome is following:

Case1: flag in corner protected by 2 major pieces and no bombs. whatever the opponent does he will never be able to get the flag unless you make a mistake. Furthermore those repetitive alternate moves between major piece 1 and major piece 2 do not result in a double chase. So this kind of game is a regular draw.

Case2: flag in corner protected by 2 major pieces and 1 bomb next to the flag. If opponent has 2 miners and 1 scout left and if he plays well he can get a victory but if he does not have the scout this game is a draw without double chasing.

Case3: flag in corner protected by 2 bombs and 2 major pieces. If opponent has 3 miners left he can get a victory. With 2 miners left only the game may end with a double chase or a regular draw, depending on how the miners are positioned against the 2 major pieces. Note that if that you are left with 2 miners and one third lower ranked piece, all of the 3 beeing unknown to your opponent you have 66% chance to win and 33% to lose depending if your opponent guesses well which of your 3 pieces is not a miner.


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#18 Fairway

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 06:32 PM

HI, when will you create the topics for the matches in round 2?


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#19 Mr. Smith

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 06:40 PM

We're only waiting for one formality, the match topics will be available after this. Hopefully this evening.


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#20 The Prof

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Posted 07 February 2016 - 07:59 PM

Napoleon, in Case 3, I believe the  67% / 33% result assumes the two minors are across the lakes and the defending pieces are positioned in the same columns as them.   Typically this will not be the case, and if it isn't, then the two minors, with the help of a move by any third piece if necessary, can always get into diagonal positioning with the defending pieces and then force a win by double chase.  So in practice, the winning percentage for the miners would be quite a bit higher. 






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