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Report Draw Refusals Here (2016)


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#81 QueenofHearts

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Posted 10 February 2016 - 05:26 AM

Obviously I knew I would get pushback. When I play a game and that player is unlikely to give me a draw what are my options? Do I feel vindicated if I eventually win and harmed if I don't? I can tell you what I feel. I feel stupid for having gotten sucked into wasting my time, but obviously my opinion is not the same for all. Do I have a right to express it without fear of reprisal? Is it justice to publicly castigate another player because they don't conform to your sense of fairplay?

 

I didn't attack anyone, but someone felt free to personally attack me and call me names. So admins where is my justice? Why is this allowed? All I posted was an opinion and offered my points not to humiliate, but to compensate the one who wronged me. I turned the other cheek. So you go ahead and hold yourselves up as the virtuous one. Put up screenshots and defend your rights under some obscure rules that most players don't even know exists. Does the accused have his day in court? This is summary justice that is condoned by the staff and for all intents and purposes facilitated by them by allowing it to go on. A forum is not a court of law and ELO points are not some god given right.

 

Where is my justice for being publicly defamed for having an opinion on an open forum? 


Queenbee


#82 GaryLShelton

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Posted 10 February 2016 - 05:27 AM

Gary, please give 20 of my ELO points to iron_maiden. Also consider me as a bank of ELO. Any time someone is refused a draw, feel free to take my points to compensate them for their loss.


That's magnanimous of you, Queen. At least you have a sense of humor in your frustration.:D

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The complete GS&F Rules can be found here: http://forum.strateg...rum-rules-2016/

Draw Refusal Rules, specifically, can be read here: http://forum.strateg...604#entry339604


#83 Moriarty

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Posted 10 February 2016 - 05:31 AM

Obviously I knew I would get pushback. When I play a game and that player is unlikely to give me a draw what are my options? Do I feel vindicated if I eventually win and harmed if I don't? I can tell you what I feel. I feel stupid for having gotten sucked into wasting my time, but obviously my opinion is not the same for all. Do I have a right to express it without fear of reprisal? Is it justice to publicly castigate another player because they don't conform to your sense of fairplay?

 

 

I still dont understand why not


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#84 QueenofHearts

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Posted 10 February 2016 - 05:43 AM

That's magnanimous of you, Queen. At least you have a sense of humor in your frustration. :D

Of course I know admins don't need my points. I should know better by now than to express my opinion when it is counter to the mainstream.

 

Moriarty I don't understand your question.


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#85 GaryLShelton

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Posted 10 February 2016 - 05:55 AM

Queen, there's only one somewhat unfriendly remark. I don't find it defaming myself, and there is no profanity involved, though it is name-calling, true. So I will hide the post as an initial reaction to your complaint, but will bring it up with the MT to see whether there is agreement on the hide or that the post should be restored.

To answer your question about reprisal and castigation: you certainly do have the right to speak your ideas in this forum at any time. You certainly do not have the right to expect others will not react angrily back, only that they express themselves civilly.

As far as judging these matters there's often a feeling of letting the boys "play in the paint" at times. Just saying. It gets rough in the paint but you have to know going in there's gonna be elbows a-flying and that some bumps and bruises are to be expected.

You stepped into the kitchen with your remarks. You have to know it is hot in there.

The offending post is now hidden pending an MT discussion.

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The complete GS&F Rules can be found here: http://forum.strateg...rum-rules-2016/

Draw Refusal Rules, specifically, can be read here: http://forum.strateg...604#entry339604


#86 Unfathomable

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Posted 10 February 2016 - 04:56 PM

I am posting to prove that Polanco15 refused my draw proposals and extended an endless game without making any effort to advance it.

 

I have posted and annotated everything to imgur, with timestamped screenshots and descriptions.

 

This is the second time this has happened to me in 2 days, I'm pretty frustrated, so this time I made the effort to document it so he'd be punished.

 

http://imgur.com/a/nIzpm


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#87 Moriarty

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Posted 10 February 2016 - 08:39 PM

I am posting to prove that Polanco15 refused my draw proposals and extended an endless game without making any effort to advance it.

 

I have posted and annotated everything to imgur, with timestamped screenshots and descriptions.

 

This is the second time this has happened to me in 2 days, I'm pretty frustrated, so this time I made the effort to document it so he'd be punished.

 

http://imgur.com/a/nIzpm

very completeevidence IMO. But whats the point of this in QA. No points, unless you care about Win %


I have no idea what that thing under my avatar is. I've always liked stickers

#88 QueenofHearts

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Posted 10 February 2016 - 08:47 PM

very completeevidence IMO. But whats the point of this in QA. No points, unless you care about Win %

I agree. This is proof Gary that the thread only exists to sustain itself. 

 

Gary put the guy's post back up. I was trying to make a point and I achieved my goal. I am not so thin skinned that I can't take the pushback and name calling even though it was uncalled for. The whole point was to get players lighten up. This is a game and some take it so personal. In the beginning I did the same thing and in the end I felt so dumb. I have no malice toward iron_maiden. He assumes everyone should play by some rules of etiquette. That is what this thread advocates. Some get that, but some players don't. To them it is a zero sum game. They just want to win at any cost. I don't like it when I lose to players like that, but it is part of the game. Just like Lotto noobs, disconnectors and those who run down the clock. It is the reason I play less and try to only play friendlies.

 

The problem with this topic is the other player has no right to defend himself and won't bother. I understand that to regain ELO for top players is harder when losing to lesser players, but that is a challenge they accept. Losing 25 points doesn't make Nortrom less of a champion in anyone's eyes. Every time he plays a rated game he stands to lose significant points as few are as accomplished.

 

Is it impossible when presented with an alternative outlook to actually change your behavior? Just stop letting these players get to you? It's not worth the aggravation.


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Queenbee


#89 Moriarty

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Posted 10 February 2016 - 08:54 PM

I am confused. 

What guy and name calling.


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#90 iron_maiden

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Posted 10 February 2016 - 10:42 PM

Um

Nothing's been done about my situation yet - how long does it take?

#91 QueenofHearts

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Posted 10 February 2016 - 11:09 PM

I am posting to prove that Polanco15 refused my draw proposals and extended an endless game without making any effort to advance it.

 

I have posted and annotated everything to imgur, with timestamped screenshots and descriptions.

 

This is the second time this has happened to me in 2 days, I'm pretty frustrated, so this time I made the effort to document it so he'd be punished.

 

http://imgur.com/a/nIzpm

@Admins this is what I was talking about. Unfathomable is probably right just as iron_maiden was, but will the other player even know? The justice is summary at best. If he did something wrong and possibly created an account with a bogus email who decides punishment when the man cannot meet his accuser? Some players don't even know what etiquette is. They play to win any way that they can. I don't like it. I accept it.

 

You now have to give iron_maiden a resolution or at least a time frame to meet his expectations. He doesn't know how long it takes, but obviously he assumes you should be able to do this right away. He may not know that admins do this as volunteers for the love of the game.


Edited by QueenofHearts, 11 February 2016 - 06:14 AM.

Queenbee


#92 GaryLShelton

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Posted 11 February 2016 - 04:45 AM

Um

Nothing's been done about my situation yet - how long does it take?


iron_maiden, in those same GS&F rules that I referenced to you earlier it is stated that the MT makes no guarantees on how long it will take to return with a decision once a case is made.

In this situation no mod has taken up your claim so I will do that now. I am largely (95%) on my Android devices when on this website. When I saw this before I couldn't see the images adequately on my phone as they were both very small and pretty fuzzy. Now that I am at my desktop I can see the pictures are no better for me here. I will open a case for you now with the MT but it's going to depend purely on whether the others can make out enough information to make a decision. I'm unable to perfectly tell the very important clock information because it's so fuzzy. We'll see what the others have to say.

It usually takes several days, but this may take a bit longer. Again, see above opening remarks.


EDIT: I see upon checking moderator chat that a case was just opened for you only a few minutes ago by tobermoryx. Things are underway. :)

EDIT #2: I just figured out how to see the screens clearly on my phone. Now they're much better than my desktop computer. :)

Edited by GaryLShelton, 11 February 2016 - 05:01 AM.
Add that case just posted for this claim.


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The complete GS&F Rules can be found here: http://forum.strateg...rum-rules-2016/

Draw Refusal Rules, specifically, can be read here: http://forum.strateg...604#entry339604


#93 tobermoryx

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Posted 11 February 2016 - 05:02 AM

Um

Nothing's been done about my situation yet - how long does it take?

 A case has been opened about your match with ViniciusC.

 

The Draw Refusal procedure can take typically up to 2 or 3 days before a verdict is announced , as several people have to look at it and vote.

 

After that it , if it is decided a player should have points restored , it may be a few days til the player sees the adjustment .This is because the MT cannot change the ELO , it is actioned by admin.



#94 tobermoryx

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Posted 11 February 2016 - 05:02 AM

I am posting to prove that Polanco15 refused my draw proposals and extended an endless game without making any effort to advance it.

 

 

A case has been opened for this also.


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#95 GaryLShelton

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Posted 11 February 2016 - 05:34 AM

very completeevidence IMO. But whats the point of this in QA. No points, unless you care about Win %


Since no points are involved in the QA games, one will just have a loss when he surrenders one of these games. Nothing can be done about that loss in either QA or regular games, though in regular games we will strive to get points restored when we agree with a claim. The main effect of reporting a draw is that the draw refuser may get punished if the MT agrees with the claim made. Currently that means 50 points deducted for 1st offenses, as in regular full games, though it has been suggested to change this points deduction to bans for QA games. For now it's points.
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i77rs4m.jpg

The complete GS&F Rules can be found here: http://forum.strateg...rum-rules-2016/

Draw Refusal Rules, specifically, can be read here: http://forum.strateg...604#entry339604


#96 GaryLShelton

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Posted 11 February 2016 - 02:25 PM

its possible to get one i believe. Had a game vs Gentleben where he won and got 1 point of me. Then he got matched with me again, getting another point. lol.


Well, I'm forgetful! I actually copied The Prof's post on that for the Ranking System. Find that here: http://forum.strateg...ted/#entry44361

Yes, of course, Moriarty, you're right. That's indeed possible. It's even possible to get nothing for a win and 25 points for a loss.

i77rs4m.jpg

The complete GS&F Rules can be found here: http://forum.strateg...rum-rules-2016/

Draw Refusal Rules, specifically, can be read here: http://forum.strateg...604#entry339604


#97 iron_maiden

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Posted 11 February 2016 - 05:29 PM

Thanks Gary, sounds good - if you do have more issues with the images I can always email you the Word document they are saved in, then you can stretch them to make them bigger. I uploaded versions pasted into Paint which shrunk them a bit.



#98 Moriarty

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Posted 11 February 2016 - 06:49 PM

Well, I'm forgetful! I actually copied The Prof's post on that for the Ranking System. Find that here: http://forum.strateg...ted/#entry44361
Yes, of course, Moriarty, you're right. That's indeed possible. It's even possible to get nothing for a win and 25 points for a loss.

I'm doubtful about nothing for a win
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#99 Napoleon 1er

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Posted 11 February 2016 - 07:41 PM

Correct. As the system shall not match you with somebody having more than 622 ELO points difference from you, you never get a case with 25:0
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If you don't know where you go ... you have a lot of chance to arrive elsewhere ...

#100 Moriarty

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Posted 11 February 2016 - 09:17 PM

Correct. As the system shall not match you with somebody having more than 622 ELO points difference from you, you never get a case with 25:0

thx for clarification

That is useful info.

 

But oddly enough, once I got paired with like a bronze spy, but I forgot what my ELO was


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