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Report Draw Refusals Here (2016)


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#1 GaryLShelton

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 10:04 AM

This thread is for reporting any cases of draw refusal that you desire the MT to review in 2016. Remember, if you don't include adequate proof, in the form of screenshots and/or videos, your post may be hidden.

Please note that any cases still in process/pending from 2015 will be addressed by MT here, and questions concerning them can be discussed here also.

The old thread, if you don't see it, has been moved to the 2015 archive. You may view it there, though you will have to reply here.

See our complete draw refusal rules below:
______________

3.0 Cases of Draw Refusal (and Other Unsportsmanlike Behavior):

3.1.1 Fair Decisions and Punishments: The number one goal of the MT in regards to draw refusals is to provide fair decisions to victims and fair punishments to violators. As draw refusals are one of the worst offenses of unsportsmanlike behavior on the site, the punishments listed below will be harsh, though we feel fair. We hope that the tough penalties and all the publicly viewable cases (here: http://forum.strateg...sals-here-2016/) will help to educate the community as to the nature of draw situations, and to contribute in reducing their abuse.

3.1.2 Types of Draw Refusal: There are two types of inappropriate draw refusals. The first is a clear draw and occurs when neither player can win the game. One example of this is a miner-less game with protected flags for both players where, in the absence of a gross mistake, neither player can capture his opponent's highest piece. A player with more pieces may try to confuse his opponent by shuffling his pieces, or he may try to lotto them in an attempt to see if a flag is unprotected, but if he fails in these things it is considered unsportsmanlike to continue this type of game and hope his opponent will eventually quit. Any player who denies two tie requests ten minutes apart in this situation (see Article 3.4.2 on "Ten Minutes") is subject to the penalties listed at Article 3.2 below.

The second type of draw refusal is a no-progress draw and occurs in a game in which one or both sides have the potential to win but no improvement is being made by either side. If one player requests a tie, at any time in the game, and is refused, then it is the responsibility of the player who refused the tie to take the offensive and to try to advance the game toward a resolution. If he does this, then the draw situation is deemed over. If he does not, and also does not accept a second tie request ten minutes after the first one (see Article 3.4.2 on "Ten Minutes"), he will be subject to the penalties listed at Article 3.2 below.

3.1.3 Progress/Advancing the Game: As stated above, the burden to advance the game falls on the player refusing the draw after a tie request is made. An attack will often be evidence of this, but not always. For example, lottoing a low-level piece or two in an endgame situation may not be viewed as advancement. On the other hand, not attacking is usually evidence of non-advancement, but again not always. The player steadily pushing a multiple piece army to his opponent's side of the board may still be seen as advancing the game even without yet attacking. In summary, the MT expects to see the player who refuses a draw request to exhibit solid progress after refusing the tie request.

3.1.4 The Basic Draw Rule: It does not matter if either player has better units or more units (i.e., superior material), no one "deserves to win" if he cannot capture the flag or all of his opponent's pieces.



3.2 Penalty Schedule for Draw Refusals:

Note: Quick Arena (QA) games will be accepted for review as long as the evidence for the draw refusal meets the same criteria as that of a regular game. (see Article 3.4.1 "What you should have in your screenshots" below.)

First Offense – A 100 point rating deduction and a written warning emailed from the admins. QA penalty: one week ban.

Second Offense – An account reset down to 100 ELO and a second written warning emailed from the admins. QA penalty: one month ban.

Third Offense – A permanent ban, a public forum announcement, and an emailed notice from the admins for both regular and QA venues (must comply with 1.8 Permanent Bans).

Optional One-Time Reminder Letter – In a permanent ban case in this section should the Moderator Team not have the votes needed to permanently ban a player, but does have enough for a normal conviction level (see Article 1.7), the MT may choose to issue either a reminder letter to the guilty party, or a repeat of the 2nd offense. If chosen, the optional reminder letter may only be issued one time per player for an offense in this section. On top of this, it may also be issued similarly one time for the same player or forum member for an offense under Articles 2, 4, and 5. No points will be restored to a player bringing a case if this reminder letter is issued to his opponent. (see also Article 3.5)



3.3 Where to report your complaint of a draw refusal: http://forum.strateg...sals-here-2016/
The Moderator Team will acknowledge your case in, and render decisions in, the above topic.

3.4.1 What you should have in your screenshots to make a STRONG case:
  • The time from your computer visible in all screenshots.
  • The graveyards of both players visible in all screenshots.
  • Two screenshots of your opponent rejecting two tie requests 10 minutes apart. These screenshots should ideally show all pieces on the board and no progress in the game during that time.
  • Any relevant chat dialogue, particularly by your opponent.
  • Little or no use of your own buffer shown in the screenshots.
  • The defeat details screen is very important. The MT will not uphold your claim of draw refusal without it or other evidence that you have lost the game.
  • There should be no progress in the game between final tie refusal and the defeat details screen.

    We also recommend:
  • For any questions on uploading screenshots, see this helpful link: http://forum.strateg...ad-screenshots/
3.4.2 Ten Minutes Is the Gold Standard of Proof: Please note from the above that what will make a strong case for any draw refusal claim is to give us two time-stamped refusal screenshots taken ten minutes apart, showing all pieces on the board, plus a defeat details screen. If no progress is made between any of these three screens, the MT will always view this evidence as solid proof of the guilt of the draw refuser. Anything less and we may concur with a claim, or we may not.

In accepting less than ten minutes of evidence, the factors that we consider will include: the nature of the draw situation, the actions of the draw refuser after a tie refusal, and the experience level of the players involved. But nothing is guaranteed in this area. If you want to be absolutely certain the MT will uphold your case, give us ten minutes of no-progress proof and a defeat screen.

3.4.3 System Tie Requests: The tie refusal screens mentioned to this point are system tie requests. You have three of them to offer by pressing the tie request button on your screen. It is a good habit to always take a screenshot when you have a tie offer refused. To meet the requirement of two system tie refusal screens for a strong case above, you may use any combination of the screenshots of your 1st, 2nd, or 3rd tie refusals by your opponent. Just make sure there is no progress in the game for ten minutes in the screens that you show us. You may, of course, show us all three tie refusals.

Also, please note that a grayed-out tie request button can indeed mean that all three of your system tie requests have been used up, but it does not necessarily mean this when certain message boxes are showing, such as a tie refusal notification box or the defeat/victory details screen. In addition, although clearly of interest, a grayed-out button does not in itself show the time information necessary to prove your case, so don't rely too heavily upon it as evidence.

3.4.4 Tie Requests Made in Chat: Requests for a tie that are made in a game chat can be substituted for a valid system tie request if necessary, but will always be a poorer form of evidence. For one, your opponent may not understand you. For two, unless your opponent definitively replies to your tie request in the chat, a mere request by you is no clear proof of his intent. It is always recommended, therefore, that these types of chat offers contain the opponent's response and that they be used in combination with other evidence.

3.4.5 No Changes in Proof: Keep in mind that any changes in the situation of your game during the evidentiary period, even to the loss of a single piece, may invalidate all of your proof. Further, if you change your mind and try to win the game after beginning the draw process, that is your right, but you will risk the potential draw that you sought. After progress has been made on the board you may no longer go back and claim a draw refusal from earlier in the game.

3.4.6 Defeat is Required: Should the game you are claiming a draw refusal on end in either a tie or a win, the MT will not hear your case.

3.4.7 Buffer Run Outs: If a player seeking a draw captures all the necessary screenshots for proving his case, but then runs out his buffer, the MT may still consider his case for draw refusal if the evidence is submitted to us. Please make a claim to us if this happens to you.

3.4.8 Surrendering the game: After you have collected screenshots of at least two tie refusals ten minutes apart (see Article 3.4.2 on "Ten Minutes" above), you can safely surrender the game. Remember to next take a screenshot of the “defeat details screen". (This is the one that tells how long your game lasted, how many moves were made, etc.) If you provide this evidence of tie refusals, and that you have surrendered, and if we agree your opponent is in violation of our rules, the MT will take away 13 points (which is the difference between a draw and either a loss or win) from your opponent's rating and restore it to yours. Also, your opponent will be subject to a further point deduction penalty or permanent banning. (see Article 3.2 above) Unfortunately, we cannot fix any player's win/loss records at this time.

3.5 Guilt Must Be Proven/No Courtesy ELO Restorations: The Moderator Team will require enough evidence to establish the guilt of the draw refuser in order to uphold a draw refusal case. In the past the MT has given 13 points as a one-time courtesy restoration when the bad sportsmanship of a draw refusing opponent was not concretely proven and no draw refusal penalty points were deducted. However, we now feel that giving points to a victim but not simultaneously punishing a draw refuser ultimately helps no one. The victim is rewarded too easily and the guilty party is not given a fair and just penalty to inform him of his bad behavior. Both will be unenlightened and likely to repeat the same event again. So if the MT agrees with a draw refusal claim, one person will be vindicated and one person will be punished. We will no longer offer a one-time courtesy to players whose proof falls short of convincing us of the guilt of their opponent.

3.6 Other Unsportsmanlike Behavior: For any egregious unsportsmanlike behavior not covered in Articles 2, 3, or 4, or excluded by Article 8, the Moderator Team will look at the claims. Sufficient evidence to establish the guilt of the defendant may require video proof. Actions by the MT may include anything from points restorations/deductions to permanent bannings. All cases will be judged separately.


Remember that all accusations require proof. If you have opened a complaint without the necessary evidence the only action the MT will take is to hide your post.
The complete GS&F Rules can be found here: http://forum.strateg...rum-rules-2016/

Draw Refusal Rules, specifically, can be read here: http://forum.strateg...604#entry339604

#2 GaryLShelton

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Posted 14 January 2016 - 07:36 PM

The MT has voted to permanently ban player davidcupples for his third draw refusal violation for his game against steelers. Pending administrative action, he will receive an official notification and his account will be blocked.

Also, player steelers will receive 13 points back for the unfair loss.
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The complete GS&F Rules can be found here: http://forum.strateg...rum-rules-2016/

Draw Refusal Rules, specifically, can be read here: http://forum.strateg...604#entry339604

#3 GaryLShelton

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Posted 21 January 2016 - 05:29 AM

The MT votes to punish player trust me for a draw refusal in a QA game with player Emergency. Pending administrative action player trust me will have 50 points deducted.
The complete GS&F Rules can be found here: http://forum.strateg...rum-rules-2016/

Draw Refusal Rules, specifically, can be read here: http://forum.strateg...604#entry339604

#4 Guldin

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Posted 21 January 2016 - 04:53 PM

I had a severe case of draw refusal with Greece-General. I would be hard pressed if this was his first offense. I pleaded with him for over an hour. He also used abusive language. I took pictures with my digital camera because my laptop can't do screen shots. What can i do to get some justice?



#5 Fairway

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Posted 21 January 2016 - 07:16 PM

I had a severe case of draw refusal with Greece-General. I would be hard pressed if this was his first offense. I pleaded with him for over an hour. He also used abusive language. I took pictures with my digital camera because my laptop can't do screen shots. What can i do to get some justice?

Post the pics.


I'm always a winner- win or lose the game. I take my mistakes and learn from them!

#6 Guldin

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Posted 23 January 2016 - 02:37 PM

it said it was to big or something. i could email them tho.



#7 GaryLShelton

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Posted 23 January 2016 - 02:46 PM

it said it was to big or something. i could email them tho.


Email them to customercare@stratego.com
and they will either take care of the matter themselves or forward it to us to look at.
The complete GS&F Rules can be found here: http://forum.strateg...rum-rules-2016/

Draw Refusal Rules, specifically, can be read here: http://forum.strateg...604#entry339604

#8 njphillips12

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Posted 26 January 2016 - 11:20 PM

I would like to have a case opened against Flying_Dutchman.

 

What makes this interesting is that I'm having to prove an unreasonable draw refusal from a game I played on my iPhone. Unfortunately, I am unable to timestamp my screenshots. That fact notwithstanding, I still maintain that there is ample evidence of an unreasonable refusal to accept a draw, and I will annotate each screenshot as best as I'm able. The links below appear in the order that the images were screenshotted.

 

We both had a general remaining on the board, and he was out of miners. My flag was sealed.

 

Photo 1: http://imgur.com/XdlK08U

Second draw refusal. I did not screenshot the first.

 

Photo 2: http://imgur.com/e5qt6Lz

First chat where I informed him of my intent to report if he did not accept a draw. His response was to laugh.

 

Photo 3: http://imgur.com/jcvbtHu

Second chat where he admits that he thinks he should win because he "has more stones." This evidences his knowledge that he couldn't capture my flag.

 

Photo 4: http://imgur.com/Mn5TG36

Final draw refusal.

 

Photo 5: http://imgur.com/ihTH0Jm

This shows the final position of the pieces. The red piece appearing in the space to the right of the red arrow is his general. All he could do was chase me. He never would have been able to affect a capture.

 

Photo 6: http://imgur.com/VaQ1aSB

Final view of the graveyard. Note that he had no miners.

 

Photo 7: http://imgur.com/4ZzlvaQ

Final view of chat. I asked him to request a tie, because I was out of requests. He did not do so, and instead, told me I was a sore loser in Dutch. This further evidences his knowledge that we were hopelessly stuck, and that he believed he should win because he had more pieces.

 

Photo 8: http://imgur.com/V5Fysji

Surrender page.

 

I'm aware that the rules generally require timestamped screenshots to prove an unreasonable draw refusal. However, notwithstanding that requirement, I would argue that the length of the chat demonstrates ample time on the part of Flying_Dutchman to accept a draw. I've made a strong case, and it would unfair and inequitable to give Flying_Dutchman the benefit of whatever doubt might exist in this case simply because I was playing on my mobile device.


- N

#9 tobermoryx

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Posted 27 January 2016 - 02:57 AM

I would like to have a case opened against Flying_Dutchman.

 

 

The MT has opened a case for you.


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#10 Moriarty

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Posted 27 January 2016 - 03:41 AM

I would like to have a case opened against Flying_Dutchman.


isnt flying dutchman a ship in Pirates of the Caribbean?
I have no idea what that thing under my avatar is. I've always liked stickers

#11 whocaresman

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Posted 27 January 2016 - 06:27 AM

Lionheart1976 wanted to shuffle all night and refuse draws.  He has his Marshal (known), I have my general, he is out of miners, and my flag is bombed.  Unfortunately, I disconnected from the game in the middle of it so my captured pieces log isn't accurate, but you would think with no pieces on the board other than my general for 10+ minutes he would have won if he had a miner.  Note the times on the screen shots.  Also, his general is dead as I sacrificed my marshal for it earlier in the game.  

 

First Draw Request- http://pasteboard.co/16arls9A.png

First Refusal- http://pasteboard.co/16asQOzs.png

The death of his last miner- http://pasteboard.co/16auDzQb.png

Intentional movement and sacrifice of my pieces to his colonel knowing the game was a draw and to show him that no progress can be made:  http://pasteboard.co/16awrJIu.png

------- http://pasteboard.co/16aAWW4Z.png

Second Draw Request- http://pasteboard.co/16aDbrhj.png

Second Refusal- http://pasteboard.co/16aEmwzD.png

Chat- I tell him I will report if he doesn't accept, he says "Good Luck" http://pasteboard.co/16aGA4oi.png

Third Draw Request- http://pasteboard.co/16aJnpdA.png

Third Refusal- http://pasteboard.co/16aKK6IK.png

Defeat Screen- http://pasteboard.co/16aLPs4L.png



#12 tobermoryx

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Posted 28 January 2016 - 04:31 AM

Lionheart1976 wanted to shuffle all night and refuse draws.  

 

A case has been opened by The MT



#13 whocaresman

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Posted 28 January 2016 - 05:15 AM

I have another draw refusal case, this time against the player "sultan61"  The screenshots clearly show my flag is bombed, he is out of miners, his marshal, general, and one of his colonels are dead.  I know his other colonel, and I have a colonel that he can't capture.  We shuffled for almost 20 mins and are clearly in more or less the same position in the game the whole time.  

 

Screenshot of board (10:44) http://pasteboard.co/17C30OUJ.png

First Draw Request- http://pasteboard.co/17C4CC2m.png

First Refusal- http://pasteboard.co/17C6PcsB.png

Sacrifying pieces so he can tell my flag is bombed- http://pasteboard.co/17C8l0kU.png

Second Draw Request- http://pasteboard.co/17CaiMAz.png

Second Refusal- http://pasteboard.co/17CbPxde.png

Third Draw Request- http://pasteboard.co/17CdaSFU.png

Third Refusal- http://pasteboard.co/17Cenu6J.png

Defeat Screen (11:02) - http://pasteboard.co/17CfBaUn.png

 

 

 

 

 


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#14 astros

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Posted 28 January 2016 - 05:41 AM

A general question on draw refusal. If my opponent wastes his draw requests early, in a situation where I make real progress between attempts. Am I obligated to offer him a draw at the end of the game in a no win situation.

I am not planning to attempt this but am curious as to how this would be judged.
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#15 Moriarty

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Posted 28 January 2016 - 07:51 AM

Another question:

 

If both sides' draw requests run out, and one side has a marshal and the other has a scout or somthing, what will happen? will there be an automatic draw or something...?


I have no idea what that thing under my avatar is. I've always liked stickers

#16 Napoleon 1er

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Posted 28 January 2016 - 07:52 AM

@astros
Not sure to understand the question. ... in a no win situation for you then the draw is your best option unless you prefer a loss?

If you don't know where you go ... you have a lot of chance to arrive elsewhere ...


#17 Moriarty

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Posted 28 January 2016 - 07:55 AM

I think he's asking if he's obligated to send the draw request, can he just chase the opponent around since opponent has no draw requests left forever.

 

Personally, I feel that he has the right to  since his opponent cannot offer a draw. He does not need to do so.


I have no idea what that thing under my avatar is. I've always liked stickers

#18 Napoleon 1er

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Posted 28 January 2016 - 07:57 AM

Another question:

If both sides' draw requests run out, and one side has a marshal and the other has a scout or somthing, what will happen? will there be an automatic draw or something...?

If your screenshots proove that you've run out of draw requests and that 10 minutes elapsed without game evolution the case can be sufficient for a draw refusal case. In this case i would recommend any additional screenshot demonstrating your attempts to ask for draw in chat and of course not forget the surrender defeat screen after the 10 minutes.

If you don't know where you go ... you have a lot of chance to arrive elsewhere ...


#19 Napoleon 1er

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Posted 28 January 2016 - 08:02 AM

I think he's asking if he's obligated to send the draw request, can he just chase the opponent around since opponent has no draw requests left forever.
 
Personally, I feel that he has the right to  since his opponent cannot offer a draw. He does not need to do so.


No ... chasing around for more than 10 minutes in a "no hope of victory" situation is unsportsmanlike (...unless the opponent confirmed he agreed to be chased like that for nothing ...)

If you don't know where you go ... you have a lot of chance to arrive elsewhere ...


#20 Moriarty

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Posted 28 January 2016 - 08:27 AM

If your screenshots proove that you've run out of draw requests and that 10 minutes elapsed without game evolution the case can be sufficient for a draw refusal case. In this case i would recommend any additional screenshot demonstrating your attempts to ask for draw in chat and of course not forget the surrender defeat screen after the 10 minutes.

i meant if both sides run out of draw offers, do you just surrender and ask for your points back here?


I have no idea what that thing under my avatar is. I've always liked stickers




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