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Probe Stratego a Good Single Player game


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#21 GaryLShelton

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Posted 05 December 2015 - 03:29 AM

I forgot to say that one nice thing about Master of the Flag is that it plays on my Android phone. Probe, Gravon, Metaforge...none play on my phone.
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#22 Fairway

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Posted 05 December 2015 - 11:53 AM

It does, it just appears at the bottom of the screen: pieces captured.


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#23 GaryLShelton

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Posted 05 December 2015 - 04:30 PM

It does, it just appears at the bottom of the screen: pieces captured.


Fairway, pieces captured has nothing to do with the rank of the pieces doing the capturing. MF doesn't show you the identity of any piece that beats you.

But to correct what I previously said just a bit, MF does show you the rank of the opponent's piece that is superior WHEN YOU ATTACK IT.

However, IF IT ATTACKS YOU, you DO NOT find out about its rank, only that you lost a piece, at the bottom.

It's a frustrating design for that aspect.
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#24 Fairway

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Posted 06 December 2015 - 12:29 PM

Fairway, pieces captured has nothing to do with the rank of the pieces doing the capturing. MF doesn't show you the identity of any piece that beats you.

But to correct what I previously said just a bit, MF does show you the rank of the opponent's piece that is superior WHEN YOU ATTACK IT.

However, IF IT ATTACKS YOU, you DO NOT find out about its rank, only that you lost a piece, at the bottom.

It's a frustrating design for that aspect.

Sorry, but I don't know what you are talking about. When it attacks you, it's rank is revealed on the board, over the square for the piece. At least it does for me when I play. So if you attack a (European) 2 vs. a 4, the 2 will show up at the bottom under captured, and the 4 will have it's rank displayed on the board over it's piece.


Edited by Fairway, 06 December 2015 - 12:30 PM.

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#25 Fairway

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Posted 06 December 2015 - 02:03 PM

Okay, so I just played Master of the Flag three times, and I won all three.


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#26 GaryLShelton

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Posted 06 December 2015 - 02:51 PM

When it attacks you , it's rank is revealed on the board, over the square for the piece. At least it does for me when I play. So if you attack a (European) 2 vs. a 4, the 2 will show up at the bottom under captured, and the 4 will have it's rank displayed on the board over it's piece. [ Bolding mine. gls]



Fairway, it's confusing to write "you" sometimes. If in doubt, use "one". I will assume the following: the first "you" used above refers to yourself while the second refers to an opponent. Correct? I hope so. Otherwise, what do you mean?

But assuming I'm correct there, then this difference must be in the device being used. I'm playing on an Android phone and you are probably using a regular desktop computer, where it works like it should no doubt. Do you have the ability to save setups in MF also? On my phone I cannot. Every time I play I must manually adjust pieces around.

Still, I'm a bit surprised you find it so easy to play. There could be a difference in skill level too, I suppose, or maybe you're just ready for that rematch, Fairway? ☺

That there might be a difference between devices is not surprising. When I was on the old app (so very long ago now, it seems😢), there were differences between that and the desktop version also. The white writing at the bottom of the screen remaining on the screen in the app for awhile versus how it disappears quickly in the desktop is one. The angle of the board is also different between the two. So this is probably what happened with MF also.
The complete GS&F Rules can be found here: http://forum.strateg...rum-rules-2016/

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#27 Fairway

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Posted 06 December 2015 - 03:46 PM

Fairway, it's confusing to write "you" sometimes. If in doubt, use "one". I will assume the following: the first "you" used above refers to yourself while the second refers to an opponent. Correct? I hope so. Otherwise, what do you mean? bingo

But assuming I'm correct there, then this difference must be in the device being used. I'm playing on an Android phone and you are probably using a regular desktop computer, where it works like it should no doubt. Do you have the ability to save setups in MF also? On my phone I cannot. Every time I play I must manually adjust pieces around. I cannot save setups either, but I play on the computer so that may be why the revealing of our opponent's ranks is different.  

Still, I'm a bit surprised you find it so easy to play. There could be a difference in skill level too, I suppose, or maybe you're just ready for that rematch, Fairway? ☺  Haha well I've been playing of MF for a couple months; I use it as practice for real games on here. I'm just used to how it is. 

That there might be a difference between devices is not surprising. When I was on the old app (so very long ago now, it seems), there were differences between that and the desktop version also. The white writing at the bottom of the screen remaining on the screen in the app for awhile versus how it disappears quickly in the desktop is one. The angle of the board is also different between the two. So this is probably what happened with MF also.  


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#28 tobermoryx

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Posted 07 December 2015 - 03:41 AM

I just had a go at this Master of the Flag ( on a desktop) and find it to be as Gary says.

 

I can only think Fairway is playing with 'visual aids on' , effectively Remain Visible . I don't like playing that way as the memory aspect is important to the proper game so i turned visual aids off in the settings.

 

If i attacked a superior unknown enemy piece it does reveal what it was  , but if that superior piece attacks mine it gives no indication what has beaten me .

 

This makes the game impossible and ridiculous .If you have a front row Colonel backed with your Spy and Marshal ,when that Colonel is taken you have no idea whether it was the enemy General or Marshal that took it , so you just have a 50-50 guess of whether to use your Marshal or Spy.

 

So it is a really bad thing to play  , unless Fairway has figured out a way in the settings that Gary and i have missed.



#29 GaryLShelton

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Posted 07 December 2015 - 06:48 AM

I just had a go at this Master of the Flag ( on a desktop) and find it to be as Gary says.


So it is a really bad thing to play , unless Fairway has figured out a way in the settings that Gary and i have missed.


tobermoryx, were you playing on a desktop version? With the differences that you and I both saw its probably hard to accurately rate its ELO, but I guess it was at least a bit better than Probe. Don't know if you'd agree there.

I noticed in the other thread that the designer of Master of the Flag himself made an appearance on our site to defend his product:

http://forum.strateg...ent/#entry20454
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Draw Refusal Rules, specifically, can be read here: http://forum.strateg...604#entry339604

#30 tobermoryx

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Posted 07 December 2015 - 08:51 AM

I was just testing what you said about the piece that attacks you not being revealed.

So I haven't played a proper game against it to assess it's level. I don't see how its possible to either , as , unless I'm missing something , you either use remain visible or your army is being destroyed by invisible pieces.

It just isn't proper Stratego IMO.

#31 tobermoryx

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Posted 07 December 2015 - 08:52 AM

Yes I was playing on desktop PC.

#32 GaryLShelton

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Posted 07 December 2015 - 10:05 PM

It's not possible, no. But I think the AI would come in a bit higher than Probe. Fairway finds it an easy AI. He must be playing with all the aids turned on, I'm thinking. Maybe he can clarify that here.
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Draw Refusal Rules, specifically, can be read here: http://forum.strateg...604#entry339604

#33 tobermoryx

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Posted 07 December 2015 - 11:20 PM

There only seem to be the 2 options.

#34 Fairway

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Posted 08 December 2015 - 01:28 AM

I just had a go at this Master of the Flag ( on a desktop) and find it to be as Gary says.

 

I can only think Fairway is playing with 'visual aids on' , effectively Remain Visible . I don't like playing that way as the memory aspect is important to the proper game so i turned visual aids off in the settings. Yes, I normally turn that of, I was just talking about the normal setting for the game. 

 

If i attacked a superior unknown enemy piece it does reveal what it was  , but if that superior piece attacks mine it gives no indication what has beaten me .

 

This makes the game impossible and ridiculous .If you have a front row Colonel backed with your Spy and Marshal ,when that Colonel is taken you have no idea whether it was the enemy General or Marshal that took it , so you just have a 50-50 guess of whether to use your Marshal or Spy.

 

So it is a really bad thing to play  , unless Fairway has figured out a way in the settings that Gary and i have missed. 

I didn't do anything, but I just play and it shows up the rank of the piece if I attack it and lose or win. But if I win it goes down under 'captured' and if I lose it's rank shows up temporarily on the face of the piece. Then it's rank stays on the piece for the rest of the game or until it is captured. BUT TO SEE THIS IT HAS TO BE ON VISUAL AIDS OR IF YOU DON'T ATTACK AND YOU LOSE WHEN IT ATTACKS YOU IT WON'T SHOW YOU THE RANK OF THE PIECE.


Edited by Fairway, 08 December 2015 - 01:31 AM.

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#35 tobermoryx

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Posted 08 December 2015 - 02:49 AM

Well exactly , so it just isn't Stratego.

If you are playing the board game , when the opponents General kills your piece then you have to remember that piece is the General, it doesn't get switched around so you can see what it is for the rest of the game.

But when your opponent takes your Colonel he has to show you it was a General attacking , he can't just say it was a higher piece and he's not telling you what!

So I find this thing to be bizarre.
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#36 GaryLShelton

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Posted 08 December 2015 - 11:08 AM

It's too bad the guy who owns it doesn't fix it. It would be interesting to see how good it actually is.
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#37 tomato123456

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Posted 08 December 2015 - 07:05 PM

Probe is never really able to be a strong opponent, because it doesn't know how to bluff well. Also, it doesn't usually like to attack unknown pieces with anything higher than a captain, although sometimes it tries to lotto with the marshal very early on in the game. If you don't allow it to discover your high pieces early then it's very easy to beat. Even if your high pieces get discovered early then it's still not too hard to beat, just because it acts pretty passive in general.

 

The nicest thing about it is probably the flexibility in the rules that the player can set, as well as saving entire games and replay possibilities. Too bad it doesn't play any stronger because then you might actually learn from it.


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#38 GaryLShelton

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Posted 08 December 2015 - 08:01 PM

Nice analysis, tomato123456.
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Draw Refusal Rules, specifically, can be read here: http://forum.strateg...604#entry339604

#39 tomato123456

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Posted 08 December 2015 - 09:30 PM

Thanks Gary. I think it would be great if someone could develop a truly tough AI but I know it's an extremely difficult task. Actually the best way to do it to my opinion would be to make it self learning instead of expert based, because that would enable it to develop all sorts of strategies over time that appear like creativity to us humans.

#40 chickenofdoom

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Posted 21 January 2016 - 12:08 AM

Is it true that Probe will remember your setups and use that information against you if you play the same setup again?






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