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Drawn game but, who is the better person?


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Poll: Drawn game but, who is the better person? (10 member(s) have cast votes)

Would you have kept playing game?

  1. Yes - Because he has no way to force a win and game should be a draw (8 votes [80.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 80.00%

  2. No - He was up three more pieces and deserves the win (2 votes [20.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 20.00%

Vote

#1 Midnightguy

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 06:22 AM

While most people are worried about chasing which I don't totally understand myself still, I'm going to keep pushing for automatic draw.  Here is yet another game that I was in that clearly in a draw situation.  Will show you screen shot of our situation and he refused my draw request.  Yet we played for an hour and half and 1560 moves before i finally gave up.  He had no miners, an open flag where he had to keep two of his captains near the flag to protect it from my scout.  We both had a General and of course he can chase me all day around my bombs zone if he wanted too or around his. 

 

Attached File  draw.jpg   166.05KB   162 downloads

 

 

To those players who feel I should lose game because I'm down in pieces, there are games in chess where the one player can only have King and yet the other guy has two pawns and Bishop but, can't force a win because his Bishop has no control over the queening square and the King is in front of the Pawns.  I once was in a live chess game event back in high school where my opponent had a Rook Pawn and Knight and I had my King which was in the corner.  He kept trying to get me to chase the Knight but, I remain firm on not leaving the corner to make sure that Pawn didn't become a Queen.  After about a 1/2 hour the tourney director declared our game a draw and by not me giving up and resigning we won the team match by a 1/2 a point.  My teacher praised my play as did my team for sticking it out.

 

Question I also want to ask, which one of us or both of us perhaps was a poor sport?  Why should I accept a loss when he doesn't have the pieces to force a win on me?  If he is a true silver player he should know the game was hopeless.  I decided to just let him win even, though I could have played another 4-5 hours and for what to waste my time?

 

 



#2 PsychoPatty

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 08:28 AM

Chasers,, what can I say.. Can't blame the mouse for running of the cat, or the cat chasing the mouse..

In this situation a forced draw after , lets say, 50-100 not attacked moves, would be the best option..

However.. to the person who is up with pieces it will mostly feel like a loss..

Ofcourse he can't force a win, but he didn't  messed up as you did that game (no offense)

 

When "forced draws" are introduced, im afraid people would abuse it, just to not lose..

Especialy at the 10 pieces games, where chases happens every 2-4 games.


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#3 KARAISKAKIS

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 08:35 AM

IT IS A CLEAR DRAW. THE ONLY SOLUTION TO PREVENT CHEATERS LIKE THIS PLAYER (UNFAIR GAMING IS ALSO CHEATING) IS HAVING MODERATORS ON LINE

Also in such situations the player who cheats must be punished with warnings points (e,g. 3 warning points =  -100 rank points )



#4 Designated Baby

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 03:09 PM

He is the only one at fault. You did not "mess up that game" as PsychoPatty says you did. If you can force a draw, you can force a draw. I have sacrificed my colonel for my opponent's last miner to force a draw because we both have generals on the board and no one can win regardless of the other pieces.
The people who are in favor of the person with more pieces winning are insane, for lack of a better word.
 


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#5 PsychoPatty

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 05:23 PM

He is the only one at fault. You did not "mess up that game" as PsychoPatty says you did. If you can force a draw, you can force a draw. I have sacrificed my colonel for my opponent's last miner to force a draw because we both have generals on the board and no one can win regardless of the other pieces.
The people who are in favor of the person with more pieces winning are insane, for lack of a better word.
 

I disagree, the moment your a piece behind is the moment you messed up. Either by swapping wrong or by setting ya pieces wrong..

Just because you can "force a draw", it doesnt mean you didnt mess up in the first place..

 

Your, "if you can force a draw, you can force a draw" does not apply here, as in the end he couldn't force anything, which was the reason he let the other guy win


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#6 obeythemaster

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 06:16 PM

it is a draw



#7 Designated Baby

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 06:31 PM

I disagree, the moment your a piece behind is the moment you messed up. Either by swapping wrong or by setting ya pieces wrong..

Just because you can "force a draw", it doesnt mean you didnt mess up in the first place..

 

Your, "if you can force a draw, you can force a draw" does not apply here, as in the end he couldn't force anything, which was the reason he let the other guy win


He could have forced a draw if he had actually been playing stratego, not a sub-par online version.

And yes, if you can force a draw it doesn't mean you messed up. Material does not matter at all. The only thing that matters is who can capture the flag or who can take all of his opponent's pieces.

Often material influences these, but if neither side can win, it is a draw. Period. Every time. The end. Case closed.

 


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#8 Midnightguy

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 06:57 AM

I was in yet another game tonight vs another silver player.  This time I had the high pieces, but had no way could leave my Flag area.  I had a General and Colonel vs two captains, two miners and a Spy and his Flag was wide open.  I had my flag in the center bottom with a bomb above it and to the left.  I parked my Colonel on one side of bombs and General on other, and yet my opponent refused my draws again.  This time I just quit game, wasn't going to waste my time since we have no automatic draw system.



#9 trickz

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 02:08 PM

That's really pathetic.

I know it's frustrating but I would never surrender against noobs that won't acept a draw allthough it's clearly a draw.

I had such a game as well yesterday.....against Aviado.

He had more lower material but I had two lieutenants and they had to guard my flag constantly.

I couldn't go away and I didn't have miners left while he had a sergeant, a miner and a scout.

The sergeant and miner were blocked by both lieutenants so he decided to fly with the scout untill I made a mistake.

I offered this guy two times a draw and he refused.

So this stupid game went on for about an half hour and finally he decided to accept my last draw request.

 

Then I played another game against Kingzig and this guy was losing heavily.

His situation was absolutely hopeless so he decided to test the spam requests.

I was three squares away from his flag and boy, he used all 6 requests like a mad man in the hope my game would freeze.

I ignored the requests and luckily nothing happened so he lost that game.

 

 

It's just disgusting :)


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#10 Midnightguy

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 02:17 AM

I could have kept playing that game, but I had better things to do at that moment.  I know that guy probably didn't if he is willing to keep playing when he knew he couldn't win unless if I quit. 



#11 SpacemanSpiff

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 11:19 PM

It was a draw.
re: Patty - her comments are completely irrelevant - it was a draw.
Midnight's opponent is another cheating a-hole - no different than a constant chaser.
We need the auto-draw for these situations.
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#12 PsychoPatty

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 09:49 PM

In my neighbourhood, we play to win..
In situations like this ,the person who is behind , had to surrender.. or just simply would surrender just because he doesnt want to play as a saddo
We played for candy, so for a few candy he had to act a fool?
I hardly see a difference between candy and virtual points (6-19).
 
This is no official ISF tournament, there is no price ya get.. so in the end, what is the point of going on for hours and hours.
 
 
Atm im in the same situation

 


 
I got a Marshall and 2 Lieutenant vs a guy who just got his Marshall, he could had a major, but he decided to ran into a bomb hoping to get one of these Lieutenants..
 
Soo, my question is.. Should I accept a draw, just and only because he is the one who messed up and is to ignorant to accept a loss?
 
Do you really wanna sit down a few hours for a few points, just and only because you can't accept the fact you messed up?

The moment the other person is up front, where is his draw request? What would he do when you request a draw?

So first your up, than ya mess it up and now all of a sudden this is a draw?


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#13 Luckypapa

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 10:02 PM

It's a draw, no doubt about it. There isn't a possibility to win the game for one of the players. The game is about capture the flag or destroy the enemy. It is not gonna happen here.

So, nobody is the better player. Sorry.....


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#14 trickz

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 10:41 PM

I agree with luckypapa, perfect example of a draw this


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#15 SpacemanSpiff

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 11:51 PM

Patty - all I want to know is who is the lovely lady in your signature? I know it can't be you because there is nothing Psycho about that face ;-)

#16 PsychoPatty

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 12:45 AM

Patty - all I want to know is who is the lovely lady in your signature? I know it can't be you because there is nothing Psycho about that face ;-)

 

 

Her name is Cheryl Cole.

 

However, dont be mistaken by my username..

It's not what it seems to be.. 


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#17 GaryLShelton

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 12:53 AM

So Spiff, is that how we can get you?  Post up a pretty girl as an avatar photo in a game perhaps?  Use Distraction 101 tactics?  Hmmm.  

 

I don't know about this girl being Cheryl Cole, but she sure looks perfect as the human Spy.   Very interesting....



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Draw Refusal Rules, specifically, can be read here: http://forum.strateg...604#entry339604

#18 PsychoPatty

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 01:01 AM

It's a draw, no doubt about it. There isn't a possibility to win the game for one of the players. The game is about capture the flag or destroy the enemy. It is not gonna happen here.

So, nobody is the better player. Sorry.....


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It's time to end those "lets play for a draw games"..

In my eyes every1 should play to win, if you can't you lose..

Ya can't blame a fella for chasing a last high piece, nor ya can blame the other for running

Half them examples of "draws" shouldn't be a draw in the first place..

Some1 must think of a point system which applies when the "forced draws" comes up..

 

For example (just thought of quick)

 

Scout 1 point

Bomb 2 points

Sergeant 3 points

Lt. 5 points

Miner 5 points

Captain 6 points

Major 7 points

Colonel 8 points

General 9 points

Marshall 10 points

Spy 15 points

 

So after 200 of non attack moves the auto draw system comes in and counts the points.. (only if one of the players has 3 or more moving pieces)

This way, the person who is up in good pieces wins, instead of as it is now, where the weaker players gets rewarded a draw for making mistakes..


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#19 trickz

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 03:12 AM

Patty, that's just straight nonsense what you say.

If there's a draw, there is a draw.  How many movable pieces you have shouldn't matter.

Suppose my flag is sealed and you have no miners left.

I only have the general and you have a general, a colonel, a major, two captains and two lieutenants still on the board.

Your general is standing on my left and my general is standing on your right.

Then this is also a draw because there is no way you will get my general.

I will dodge you around the lakes till infinity and what I can take I will grab without the risk of commiting suicide of course.

You can say that it's my fault that I only have one piece left while you still have seven pieces on the board.

But I can say it's your fault that you don't have miners left so therefore, why should I lose the game if you can't win the game anymore?

This is a draw.  And there is no such thing as a strong or a weak draw so the points of the remaining pieces are totally unnecessary.

If no one can win the game, it should always be a draw.

Or you grab the flag or you kill all his pieces.  You can do neither in this case.


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#20 PsychoPatty

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 10:44 AM

Patty, that's just straight nonsense what you say.

If there's a draw, there is a draw.  How many movable pieces you have shouldn't matter.

Suppose my flag is sealed and you have no miners left.

I only have the general and you have a general, a colonel, a major, two captains and two lieutenants still on the board.

Your general is standing on my left and my general is standing on your right.

Then this is also a draw because there is no way you will get my general.

I will dodge you around the lakes till infinity and what I can take I will grab without the risk of commiting suicide of course.

You can say that it's my fault that I only have one piece left while you still have seven pieces on the board.

But I can say it's your fault that you don't have miners left so therefore, why should I lose the game if you can't win the game anymore?

This is a draw.  And there is no such thing as a strong or a weak draw so the points of the remaining pieces are totally unnecessary.

If no one can win the game, it should always be a draw.

Or you grab the flag or you kill all his pieces.  You can do neither in this case.

 

And thats exactly my point.. Running away for infinity just because you can't take a loss, or accept the fact you !@#$ed up..

As i said before, in my youth we play to win.. A draw was hardly in the dictionary..

Chase moments become thanks to those infinity run aways.. 

 

"woohoo, imma run and dodge you around the lakes"  but after 2 hours you complain because the other is like "woohoo imma run and chase you around the lakes"

 

What would happen in real life if a general is upfront all those pieces you named..

2 lietenants would hunt for a general , atleast!

 

Therefor i would really suggest a point system which comes after those "forced draw" moment..

Some1 who f!@#cked it up as in your example, should NOT be awarded with a draw

 

You win or you lose, simple as that..


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