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Masters Divisions 2017 - Discussion


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#1 TheOptician

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Posted 15 January 2017 - 10:12 PM

The below discussion has been moved from the Allocation thread:



#2 --Wogomite--

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Posted 18 January 2017 - 01:01 AM

Is there anyway to put Sohal in the division that he belongs in?

It seems like a huge flaw in the system to me if not!...not to mention three of the best Americans that exist in division 5. 

Winning division 5 would give you more bragging rights then winning any other division besides division 1 and 2 in my opinion.   



#3 astros

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Posted 18 January 2017 - 01:13 AM

Is there anyway to put Sohal in the division that he belongs in?

It seems like a huge flaw in the system to me if not!...not to mention three of the best Americans that exist in division 5. 

I feel as though winning division 5 would give you more bragging rights then winning any other division besides division 1 and 2.   

The allocation guidelines for the 2016/17 were outlined here back in March:

 

http://forum.strateg...n-announcement/

 

Sohal participated in a single tournament and his performance in that event does not warrant placement in a higher division. The TC hopes all Sohal and invited players will participate in Masters Divisions, however, it would be unfair of us to alter the rules to achieve a preferred permutation or to elicit the registration of specific players.


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#4 --Wogomite--

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Posted 18 January 2017 - 01:18 AM

Thank you for your quick response. I completely understand your position, so then their is no one to blame except for a huge flaw in the system. 



#5 astros

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Posted 18 January 2017 - 01:22 AM

Thank you for your quick response. I completely understand your position, so then their is no one to blame except for a huge flaw in the system. 

There is no flaw in the system. The Masters Divisions are the culmination of the 2016/17 season and players are placed based upon their performance in the season. Sohal participated in one event where he finished tied for 17th. Given the limited scope of his performance throughout the season, he has not earned a place in a higher division. His other accomplishments on this site, while notable, bear no impact on his allocation for Masters Divisions.


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#6 --Wogomite--

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Posted 18 January 2017 - 01:35 AM

There is no flaw in the system. The Masters Divisions are the culmination of the 2016/17 season and players are placed based upon their performance in the season. Sohal participated in one event where he finished tied for 17th. Given the limited scope of his performance throughout the season, he has not earned a place in a higher division. His other accomplishments on this site, while notable, bear no impact on his allocation for Masters Divisions.

Your statement here by all means shows a very organized and time involved process in which there is attempt to rate players based on a performance. However, the ranking that Sohal has been placed among approximately 70 players with this "organized process" has shown something completely different to any other ranking system that Sohal is involved in world wide. Could this mean that your process in organizing the masters division is a better one than any other in the world, maybe. I am not prone to believe that to be the case but who knows. I am sticking with "there is a huge flaw in the system". 



#7 astros

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Posted 18 January 2017 - 01:38 AM

Your statement here by all means shows a very organized and time involved process in which there is attempt to rate players based on a performance. However, the ranking that Sohal has been placed among approximately 70 players with this "organized process" has shown something completely different to any other ranking system that Sohal is involved in world wide. Could this mean that your process in organizing the masters division is a better one than any other in the world, maybe. I am not prone to believe that to be the case but who knows.

We are not positing our list for Masters Divisions represents the abilities of each player. Rather, it is a reflection of every players' performance in the 2016/17 season. Sohal participated limitedly in the season thus he appears in the bottom third of the list.
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#8 --Wogomite--

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Posted 18 January 2017 - 01:49 AM

We are not positing our list for Masters Divisions represents the abilities of each player. Rather, it is a reflection of every players' performance in the 2016/17 season. Sohal had limited participation in the season thus he appears in the bottom third of the list.

To me "Masters Divisions" implied something different but thank you for clarifying. I understand now that this event is not actually claiming that any division is a representation of skill but rather of attendance and performance combined. This would alter the integrity of a skill ranking tremendously and is why you are not claiming that the divisions are split up based on ability. There for, I have come to realize by your insight that there is not a flaw in the system at all. I was simply mistaking the purpose of this event. Thank you astros for being such a good communicator. Your clarity is appreciated.  



#9 spyros77

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Posted 18 January 2017 - 09:22 AM

I have one question.

 

Can you clarify the selection of players on each Division..For example the results from previous year count for nothing?

 

 


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#10 TheOptician

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Posted 18 January 2017 - 11:15 AM

Correct. The allocations to Divisons are based solely on participation in this seasons tournaments (not previous year).

However, I would add that this is all set to change next season with the introduction of the Pyramid League.

#11 --Wogomite--

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Posted 18 January 2017 - 01:07 PM

I want to make it clear after my conversation with astros that I like what the Masters Divisions could be and I don't mean that disrespectfully. I know you guys have worked hard with TRPs and TRPs are a really cool idea indeed. I like how you are allowing the progress you have made from other tournaments to stack. I am how ever very disappointed with the fact that if you do not choose to focus on Stratego for no less than six months out of the year, you don't really have a chance for a top division unless you make it to the finals on your first tournament. This typically only benefits two players, four if we saw a couple other Dutch come out to play. Which one ends up claiming in a single tournament anyway. If you are not these top three or four players, you have to play two tournaments if you are the top under those players. You will see others sneak in from time to time and they deserve it. That is always done by no one that gets lucky. If you happened to receive a bad draw in one of the first two tournaments, you will have to play the third giving no break before the WCO, and then the Masters, uughh. And then the Spring Tournament starts right back over....So many, just to prove something? I am starting to consider it not even worth it. I love this game and more then many of you can imagine (unless we are all obsessed with it lol) but why is such consumption demanded for a Masters Division good title.

 

With the introduction of the Pyramid League, will one be able to claim a good seat in a division without playing any of the three seasonal tournaments? I do believe that the three tournaments should have weight for the Masters, I do not believe they should be as heavy as they are. 



#12 spyros77

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Posted 18 January 2017 - 02:12 PM

Correct. The allocations to Divisons are based solely on participation in this seasons tournaments (not previous year).

However, I would add that this is all set to change next season with the introduction of the Pyramid League.

Well it is very funny seeing Enigma in Division 5 while in the previous year's Division tournament he was fourth among all in Division 1. I can also continue with other examples but I believe that you have understood my point. 



#13 TheOptician

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Posted 18 January 2017 - 02:55 PM

Spyros and Wogomite,

The points you have made are indeed some of the reasons behind the introduction of the Pyramid League. How it works exactly in the future will be published in due course, and rest assured that this will give fair opportunity for those players who do not play as much to qualify for a Division in line with their standard, rather than rewarding attendance.

We won't be changing the rules for Masters Divisons as this was all published a year ago - but after this event these problems will be a thing of the past.
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#14 spyros77

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Posted 18 January 2017 - 03:45 PM

Spyros and Wogomite,

The points you have made are indeed some of the reasons behind the introduction of the Pyramid League. How it works exactly in the future will be published in due course, and rest assured that this will give fair opportunity for those players who do not play as much to qualify for a Division in line with their standard, rather than rewarding attendance.

We won't be changing the rules for Masters Divisons as this was all published a year ago - but after this event these problems will be a thing of the past.

Even though HiImNew will be the next online champion i just wonder how he has been placed in Division 2 while he has participated only in one tournament. Maybe I'm wrong but I believe your selections haven't been based on any rule. Sorry to say that...if you can prove me wrong for Enigma for example then I will take  my words back.  



#15 TheOptician

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Posted 18 January 2017 - 03:56 PM

HiImNew is not participating in WCO?

He did play in Champ League and reached the Quarter Finals. As per the published allocation of places to Divisions (see 2016/17 Season Announcement in the Tournaments TC forum) Champions League quarter finalists are allocated places 23 to 26 in the table.

Due to players occupying duplicate qualifying spots, this means that HiImNew is 14th on the list. (Sevenseas and LAZZLO, who were also Champ League Quarter-Finalists, occupy Tied 12th position)

#16 spyros77

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Posted 18 January 2017 - 06:31 PM

So Champions League was the only tournament based on which the Divisions have been divided...Nice and fair don't you think?

 

P.S. I have asked to explain Enigma's position..if you think of course it is feasible.

 

P.S. WCO is still on going so this doesn't count i assume. 

 

P.S. Where is Morx the CURRENT world champion? 

 

Think about all the above before you just give a quick answer


Edited by spyros77, 18 January 2017 - 06:38 PM.


#17 TheOptician

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Posted 18 January 2017 - 06:44 PM

UlE9He7.png

 

Spyros :- This is the Table (above) which determines positions in Masters

 

WCO doesn't count in the TC season (it will in Pyramid)

 

Morx has never played a TC tournament so doesn't qualify (but as just mentioned WCO will count towards Pyramid)



#18 spyros77

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Posted 18 January 2017 - 07:06 PM

UlE9He7.png

 

Spyros :- This is the Table (above) which determines positions in Masters

 

WCO doesn't count in the TC season (it will in Pyramid)

 

Morx has never played a TC tournament so doesn't qualify (but as just mentioned WCO will count towards Pyramid)

Any logical person in this forum can understand what I mean. The tournaments (Winter, Spring ones? Please let's get serious...) you are presenting should also have a gravity and so on...no meaning to analyze further

 

I will give you a hint: 

Which is the point to be a World Champion when all the great players are not participating in the tournament? If you want to be considered as a top player then you must beat the best players.

 

P.S. Morx is the current World Champion. Even though he hasn't participated in other tournaments he has proven that he was the best because he has beaten ALL the best players. As a result, he must be in Division 1 whether your maths say no. I can give you more examples, but you need to understand that your logic has many flaws. 


Edited by spyros77, 18 January 2017 - 07:19 PM.


#19 TheOptician

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Posted 18 January 2017 - 07:17 PM

Spyros,

I completely agree with you (as I said earlier). This is why we are changing things in the future.

You implied that I was making things up! So this is why I have provided the table above.

We will not change the rules so drastically in the middle of the season - this would be unfair on all the rest of the players involved. This was published almost a year ago. Is it the best method moving forward? Of course not.

The Pyramid League will address all the points you have made.

#20 spyros77

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Posted 18 January 2017 - 07:21 PM

In this case why to participate on such a tournament?






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