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Topics of Abusive Behavior (2017)


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#801 GaryLShelton

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 01:59 AM

I for one would love to punish disconnectors. The way I suggested a long time ago now is based upon just what TheOptician just now suggested. If we have the white writing saying something so incriminating as a large piece is captured or blown up on a bomb, then we punish. I agree with that much. The reason we never proceeded with this plan was the advent of the new app. At the time Mick was saying that the web version would soon follow and since the new app has no white writing, pressing the matter was a waste of time.

So now here we find ourselves almost three years later and the web version is still here. We could still enact something based upon the white writing, but this would not help anyone using the new app.

Also, I would take a small exception to what TheOptician has stated above. Although I have, admittedly, grown used to the behavior, I still think the disconnecting problem is very annoying. It's worth far more than 4 points. I always pushed for a harsh punishment, for the same reason our draw refusal penalties are harsh. That is, we would like to stop the behavior. Also, there's the time of admins to consider. We get them doing only so much. To spend that admins capital that we have on dinging this or that person for a mere 4 points because of a disconnect...we might as well do nothing. It wastes everyone's time.

The only answer in my opinion is to make the penalty harsh enough that the memory of it sticks. 4 points will not even be noticed by people. If the players that do this don't know where the forum button is at the top of the screen, they're certainly not going to notice 4 points. If they get dinged, say, 50 points every time (1 week ban for QA games), then they will quickly learn or wither to 100 ELO.

My plan originally was to punish the same number of points every time and not have an accumulating punishment schedule. This is because it would not cost the MT so much time in maintaining records. If a guy keeps doing it, he keeps getting hammered. Very simple. I suppose we could set up a 3 strikes and out policy. That wouldn't be too hard to maintain. It would, of course, be subject to the 12 month sunset of the rules so no player would forever be haunted by his past mistakes if he stopped the behavior.

I like the white writing approach, but if we could get the programming to punish for this it would be totally better. Before he last disappeared, NTactical told me that it was completely possible for the programmers to tell the difference between an intentional and unintentional disconnect. So I will always go with that. NTactical knew his stuff. Alas, programming is not going to be happening so the white writing strikes me as the next best thing.

i77rs4m.jpg

The complete GS&F Rules can be found here: http://forum.strateg...rum-rules-2016/

Draw Refusal Rules, specifically, can be read here: http://forum.strateg...931#entry468931


#802 TheOptician

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 09:55 AM

I agree 4pts is not worth anyone bothering. But if you say that offence should be 50pts penalty then you are saying that 2 disconnection offences is equivalent to one draw refusal offence.

Personally I would rather face many disconnectors than one draw-refuser.

A draw refuser wastes 10 minutes (minimum) but in reality - once you have realised that your opponent intends to avoid a draw - you have to build a case, take screenshots, resign the match, upload them - all with the possibility that you won't be successful. And an opponent who knows their stuff can make this difficult for you. Potentially you would be forced to invest upwards of 30 minutes.

A disconnector 'wasted' 2.5 minutes - a perfect amount of time to perform an enjoyable task such as visiting the bathroom.

On wasted time alone, that's already about 12 disconnectors to one draw refuser. Maybe the penalty should be 10pts (yes still too trivial to enforce action).

You'd have to significantly raise the penalty for draw refusal. 250 points would be a proper deterrent.

#803 mazuzam

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 07:52 PM

mazuzam,

Have you ever been disconnected against your will? I have, several times - and it would be a double blow if I were then to receive an additional punishment in the form of extra lost points.

As you can't differentiate between a bad loser and someone with internet issues, this proposal can't work.

However, if someone were to submit a screenshot of an opponents disconnection - which also displayed the message 'your opponents marshall loses to your bomb' - for example, then I think that should suffice as evidence of deliberate disconnection (with at least 99% certainty). Then MT could deduct an appropriate number of points (which in my opinion for something relatively harmless like this - at a rate of 100pts per wasted hour - is about 4 pts).

I doubt MT would fancy adding 'punishing diaconnectors' to their list of duties though.

I would be ok to loose a few extra points here and there because of faulty connections.

However, people would not do that deliberately if they lose say 16 instead of 12 points just because they disconnect instead of surrender the game. If the small penalty is automatic than it shapes the behavior of players. Large penalty will harm those that get truly disconnected.


Edited by mazuzam, 07 November 2017 - 07:58 PM.


#804 GaryLShelton

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 10:19 PM

TheO, I believe the penalty should be harsh for a disconnect, yes. I think the people that do it are either uninformed of the surrender flag, or are just plain rude. In either case a stiff penalty will help change their behavior.

Now, your argument comparing the disconnect to a draw refuser is interesting but let me add to it. Disconnecters may not only rudely and abruptly leave the game on you. Many will suddenly run their buffers down after losing their big piece (add 4-5 minutes) and so extend the time to the maximum of 7.5 minutes. But let's just use the conservative figure of the disconnect window's 2:30. If a draw refusal costs 10 minutes, then that's a 4-1 ratio. So if a draw garners a 100 point deduction as currently, the disconnect ought to rate 25 points anyway. Now, I'm still for the harsher figure, but interestingly, the consensus number the last time this white writing solution came up was 25 points. So voilà!

Does that work for you, TheO?

Oh, and one thing that is definitely not true is that you cannot go to the bathroom after someone disconnects on you. If you do you may come back to the ugly truth that they have come on and moved a piece and now you are the one who has lost. This has happened to me once and the several times afterwards where someone disconnected on me I have watched attentively until the 2:30 is zero.

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The complete GS&F Rules can be found here: http://forum.strateg...rum-rules-2016/

Draw Refusal Rules, specifically, can be read here: http://forum.strateg...931#entry468931


#805 Lonello

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 11:35 AM

Just wanted to report some unnecessary name calling by player "Yu Darvish". Didn't really appreciate his messages which were completely unwarranted. They are attached. Thank you.

 

He has been found guilty on the 2nd degree and will be banned from the site for a week!


Lo

#806 Nortrom

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 01:00 PM



I like the white writing approach, but if we could get the programming to punish for this it would be totally better. Before he last disappeared, NTactical told me that it was completely possible for the programmers to tell the difference between an intentional and unintentional disconnect. So I will always go with that. NTactical knew his stuff. Alas, programming is not going to be happening so the white writing strikes me as the next best thing.


You can only detect the difference between closing the browser and disconnecting due to failure of service, whether deliberate or not is impossible to figure out. You can simply turn off your modem/router, on purpose, and it would be the same as if your ISP screwed you over. Alternatively you can turn off the Wifi connector (if using wireless), rip out the cable (if wired) or simply disable the network card.

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#807 mazuzam

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 08:14 PM

People disconnect or waste your time because they know they lost and they want to punish you for that.

If they knew they are going to reword your wasted time with additional points they would not do that.

This is not about how severe punishment is being applied.

 

For big punishments you need to submit a case, open a case, judge and have moderator apply the point deduction.

From the experience (draw refusals) everybody knows it is big task to deal with and not too many will want to deal with that.

 

 

Automatic small points deduction is the way to go.

The important key is that the points subtracted from the looser are added to the winner.

 

Regards,



#808 GaryLShelton

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 04:03 AM

This name is evil and does not represent anything good. Please get rid of it!!!

wMNfQWs.jpg



The MT agrees and has issued a name change for this player. Pending admin action he will be named "Renamed(8-11-17".

i77rs4m.jpg

The complete GS&F Rules can be found here: http://forum.strateg...rum-rules-2016/

Draw Refusal Rules, specifically, can be read here: http://forum.strateg...931#entry468931


#809 TheOptician

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 08:33 AM

The most laughable decision I've ever heard.

#810 GaryLShelton

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 02:29 PM

The most laughable decision I've ever heard.


Don't worry. It's not against all Charlies. :)
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i77rs4m.jpg

The complete GS&F Rules can be found here: http://forum.strateg...rum-rules-2016/

Draw Refusal Rules, specifically, can be read here: http://forum.strateg...931#entry468931


#811 mazuzam

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 08:34 PM

This is what I am talking about. We both raced to the flag with our miners.

I was about to get his/her and he/she disconnected.

 

They would not do that if they lost couple more point because of that.

 

Anyway - just saying.

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#812 MisterTimRules

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 02:51 PM

If you're going to punish disconnectors, then punish all who "abuse" players.

 

Punish the jerks who refuse a draw by resetting their ELO to 100 the FIRST time they do it. No reason to give them two chances to pull this nonsense.

 

Punish the jerks who take 6 1/2 minutes to set up and then wait another two minutes before their first move.

 

Punish the shufflers who run a scout into your man and then spend the rest of the game shuffling one or two men.

 

Punish the 1 for 1 players who think that's a strategy and not just a lame way to win a game with no thought or skill required.

 

Punish the abusive players who go into a tirade when they realize they're not going to win.

 

Punish the jerks who take 15 seconds between moves to try and bore you into submission.

 

In summation, you are trying to punish players (like myself) who disconnect to enact some payback on all the above mentioned jerks. If you think winning a game by waiting 2 1/2 minutes is torture, try taking 4 or 5 screenshots while trying to play some jerk who won't accept a draw. The draw refusers need to be punished more severely if you're going to punish someone just for disconnecting. End of rant.



#813 GaryLShelton

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 08:56 PM

The severity of punishment for draw refusers is adequate at this time, I feel. Every other penalty schedule is a four step one. Draw Refusal is only three so it's already more severe.

The taking of 6 minutes of buffer time to set up is a hard one. As I see it that's what's allowed and unless it's adjusted down to a lower number in the programming there's probably not going to be anything we can or should do.

As for the buffer use at the end of the game, we could possibly penalize for that as well as disconnecting. Both would be, as they say in American football, "Delay of Game" penalties, and each could receive a so-many-point hit for every incident. The main difference between the two infractions would be that the buffer abuse would likely require video evidence, I think, whereas we would probably only require simple screenshots to deal with disconnecting.

For the 15 second clock, like the set up time, it is also allowed by the system. Unlike the buffer setup issue (where I can't see anything proving mal-intent), a player taking 15 seconds for each and every move has been punished twice already. One time the perpetrator did it every move for 30 minutes. The next time it was for 20. What the exact rule should be hasn't been hashed out but it could certainly be discussed.

Note: countrary to a suggestion mentioned above by mazuzam, the MT would never be adding the same points to the victim that we might use for a penalty, such as 25. Those points would only be on the negative side for the culprit.

i77rs4m.jpg

The complete GS&F Rules can be found here: http://forum.strateg...rum-rules-2016/

Draw Refusal Rules, specifically, can be read here: http://forum.strateg...931#entry468931


#814 KissMyCookie

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 10:12 AM

If you're going to punish disconnectors, then punish all who "abuse" players.

 

Punish the jerks who refuse a draw by resetting their ELO to 100 the FIRST time they do it. No reason to give them two chances to pull this nonsense.

 

I don't think that these players care much about ELO–I think that their thrill is antagonizing quality minded players.

Solution: Continue to develop your technique so you can always beat such players.

 

 

Punish the jerks who take 6 1/2 minutes to set up and then wait another two minutes before their first move.

 

This is a very good point, but unless admin decides to care for their "child" (stratego.com), this is a problem to which there is no solution available at present.

 

Punish the shufflers who run a scout into your man and then spend the rest of the game shuffling one or two men.

 

Your only option here is to learn how to beat the shufflers. They can be irritating (and like it or not, it is a common strategy used generally by lesser players), but I have personally watched top players tear people like this apart and it is such a pleasure and a joy to witness because they had done it through complete skill, analysis, and delivery. Ask any top player and most will tell you that they usually can dismantle these types.

 

Punish the 1 for 1 players who think that's a strategy and not just a lame way to win a game with no thought or skill required.

 

Again, why should MT and admin punish someone for using an inferior strategy? This is a challenge directly posed to you and you alone–this one is your responsibility. If he uses a scout and finds your sergeant, then he goes and trades sergeants with you, you are one scout ahead. He cannot keep this type of play up throughout the match, unless you are the one making the mistakes. Solution: You need to concentrate on out-playing your opponent.

 

 

Punish the abusive players who go into a tirade when they realize they're not going to win.

 

MT already does this when solid evidence is presented when making a case. 

 

 

Punish the jerks who take 15 seconds between moves to try and bore you into submission.

 

I believe that if you have video evidence and can upload it to youtube or dailymotion, MT will be glad to torture themselves watching the match to determine if there are grounds for a ban against such abuse. It's up to you to provide the necessary evidence, but I believe that such players have been penalized by the MT in the past. NOTICE: With current site issues, practically every match being played these days has a 15 per move lag time. Shall we ask the MT to punish the admins?

 

End of rant.

 

Yes, that was quite a rant.



#815 potredas

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 10:31 AM

Hallo on Saturday 11/11 the player ''Avast'' used inappropriate graphic words. Look yourself the images below. I believe players like him must been banned from the game for ever.
 
Thank you
 
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Attached Files


Edited by potredas, 12 November 2017 - 06:46 PM.


#816 Napoleon 1er

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 10:41 AM

Potredas

 

to post screenshots you need to upload them for example om imgur.com and then paste the link in this forum. Now I don't see any pictures in your post.


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If you don't know where you go ... you have a lot of chance to arrive elsewhere ...

#817 Polnaléon

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 09:24 PM

.


Edited by Polnaléon, 23 November 2017 - 03:32 AM.


#818 rgillis783

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 09:48 PM

I don't think that these players care much about ELO–I think that their thrill is antagonizing quality minded players.

Solution: Continue to develop your technique so you can always beat such players.

 

 

 

This is a very good point, but unless admin decides to care for their "child" (stratego.com), this is a problem to which there is no solution available at present.

 

 

Your only option here is to learn how to beat the shufflers. They can be irritating (and like it or not, it is a common strategy used generally by lesser players), but I have personally watched top players tear people like this apart and it is such a pleasure and a joy to witness because they had done it through complete skill, analysis, and delivery. Ask any top player and most will tell you that they usually can dismantle these types.

 

 

Again, why should MT and admin punish someone for using an inferior strategy? This is a challenge directly posed to you and you alone–this one is your responsibility. If he uses a scout and finds your sergeant, then he goes and trades sergeants with you, you are one scout ahead. He cannot keep this type of play up throughout the match, unless you are the one making the mistakes. Solution: You need to concentrate on out-playing your opponent.

 

 

 

MT already does this when solid evidence is presented when making a case. 

 

 

 

I believe that if you have video evidence and can upload it to youtube or dailymotion, MT will be glad to torture themselves watching the match to determine if there are grounds for a ban against such abuse. It's up to you to provide the necessary evidence, but I believe that such players have been penalized by the MT in the past. NOTICE: With current site issues, practically every match being played these days has a 15 per move lag time. Shall we ask the MT to punish the admins?

 

 

Yes, that was quite a rant.

Sorry KMC but MisterTim does have several good points. I generally would not step up but after spending my Sunday dealing with shufflers and other assorted fools , I need to. We have not met in a match before but I just got done with MistertTim in match. They played well and won. They did shuffle a bit but took my ribbing about it well. I think you both have valid pts but the 6 min set up has got to go. Never mind losing but that 6 min. is way to long.I think Admin. and MT could look at doing somethings to keep game moving along. All of us can improve our games by practice if FLIPPIN games did not take so long do to time wasters. :angry:



#819 potredas

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 09:49 PM

For second day a player relive me. The dutch player MOTORMUIS relieved me. He has played 11.300 game but he has no respect and speaks like that.

 

I want to inform everybody that I will stop and I will never play Stratego again.

 

And that's because I used to like the game and I was here to play, to have fun, to make friends and some players are free to revile me and my family. OK, because I respect myself and my family I will not play again.

 

If the Moderators love the game I hope will make something for scamps players like MOTORIUS, AVAST and other who destroy the game.

 

It is a pity but I have no other choice.

 

I goodbye you all...


Edited by potredas, 12 November 2017 - 10:02 PM.


#820 Unladen Swallow

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 09:55 PM

 

 

I want to inform everybody that I will stop and I will never play Stratego again.

 

 

cya next week


Edited by Unladen Swallow, 12 November 2017 - 09:56 PM.

I used to play against a few drunken idiots in College and University. I just recently discovered this game online, playing my first matches against real-world opponents. After 100 games, I'm now one of the top 10 players in the world.




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