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1st online World Championship - polls


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#21 Hielco

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Posted 08 July 2015 - 06:28 PM

i dont think you can cheat in stratego,its still a skill game.

stratego is about taking pieces and defending pieces,you cant cheat at that.


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#22 sevenseas

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Posted 08 July 2015 - 06:34 PM

i dont think you can cheat in stratego,its still a skill game.

stratego is about taking pieces and defending pieces,you cant cheat at that.

People can cheat the software though... which is why I think this exists. Things like Waterfall and the old tie glitchers were people trying to take advantage of the system (ie. cheating)


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#23 Hielco

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Posted 08 July 2015 - 06:49 PM

software is ok now, and for a wc it should be



#24 KARAISKAKIS

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Posted 08 July 2015 - 07:17 PM

i dont think you can cheat in stratego,its still a skill game.

stratego is about taking pieces and defending pieces,you cant cheat at that.

 Τhere are lot of forms of cheating. Besides the cheating using the software there is cheating with multiple participation in tournaments (same person with 2 or more accounts) , there is cheating playing critical games using external help or even more playing the whole game someone else in order to help his friend. A real world championship must guarantee that all the above should be prevented.

skype will definitely help towards this direction


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#25 Hielco

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Posted 08 July 2015 - 07:32 PM

helping someone or play with more accounts cant make you a world champion



#26 KARAISKAKIS

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Posted 08 July 2015 - 08:22 PM

@ Hielco

 

Let me explain you in a different way

 

In this link  http://i.imgur.com/yYrCQpf.png  you can see your results against Nortrom in metaforge.

In 50 games you have a record 17 wins - 29 loses and 4 draws. (34% - 58% - 8%) In stratego com in tournaments your record is 1 win 2 loses  ( 33.33% - 66.66%) - quite similar.

That means that if in the online WC you play 3 times agains Nortrom (once because swiis perfect match you  and 2 because he wants to help 2 of his dutch friends) you are going to have 2 loses instead Ο.6 according the possibilities. With 2 loses you are not going be world champion for sure.  Names are randomly selected to avoid any misunderstanding. :)

 

 

Btw

tommorow I am going to give to our community the updated kleier list in public. According this list we will have the rates which will be used in the coming WC for the swiss perfect pairing. Stay in tune. It is really a great work !!!!! 

Many thx to Hermann.


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#27 Aris1970

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Posted 09 July 2015 - 12:03 AM

I changed my vote about question "Which must be the duration of each round in WC (total no of rounds 10)"
I voted ..... "2 weeks"
As I understand,  it will be a long tournament and maybe some players would like participate same time in other tournaments. If the duration of each round in WC is 2 weeks then I could participate in other (parallel) tournaments. For this reason  I voted ("2 weeks") although I think I'm undesirable to the blue members of forum.
 

 

I like The Prof's post :

 

A goal of this tournament is to create an experience that is more similar to a live tournament game, and Skype is effective for this purpose.  I've never had the opportunity to play in a live tournament, but I assume that there are psychological skills involved that do not exist in the online game, such as reading the opponent's physical reactions while not revealing anything yourself, or misleading your opponent with your reactions. 

 

 

 

About usage of skype

 

How All the players who will participate in the tournament must have an account in Skype application preferably  with the name of their participation. Additionally they must use activated camera during the communication through the skype application during their games. Only exception is in cases both players agree to play without skype.

 

 

it is obvious because the Committee would not be able to know eg. if the game Aris1970 vs. The Prof  is played with skype

 

 

About usage of skype imply : maximum credibility and transparency - friendly relations between of the participants.

About world ranking board according kleier's system (similar with what exist with live tournaments) ........... is page break !!!

multiple participation , " Waterfalls" , ranking Stratego.com , multiple accounts ,  etc........will be past ;)
I think that is a real online world championship .
 
 
@TC (1st online World Championship)
What is Committee's opinion about "case of Draw"  ?    I mean :
In this tournament you could use clock system with the same settings as in WC (14 min buffer time, 5 sec free , 65 min set up + game) :)    
I know that it's impossible here in stratego.com. 
Does a simulation ?
 
 


#28 Kernel Mustard

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Posted 09 July 2015 - 04:38 AM

Thanks Greg, it starts to make more sense when you described it this way to me.



#29 Lonello

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Posted 09 July 2015 - 06:53 AM

When you say that you do not have Skype what do you mean?

The application or camera in your pc ?

 

I mean both.

 

 

You'll never be able to substantively prove one's identity, though (even w/ Skype). 

 

Yes I guess that is true. And if one was sitting next to him helping him remembering the pieces?! With open playing on Gravon he sees the whole setup (with a 2nd computer and out of visual contact).

 


Lo

#30 KARAISKAKIS

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Posted 09 July 2015 - 04:29 PM

 

 

 

Btw

tommorow I am going to give to our community the updated kleier list in public. According this list we will have the rates which will be used in the coming WC for the swiss perfect pairing. Stay in tune. It is really a great work !!!!! 

Many thx to Hermann.

 

 

Here it is  http://forum.strateg...ing-and-rating/



#31 Shut Up.

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Posted 10 July 2015 - 12:25 AM

KARAISKAKIS, you act very defensively and sensitive by replying to every single topic. Seems like you want to push through your opinion a bit too much. Let people think for themselves and brainstorm a bit, rather than intervening after every single post and controlling the public opinion by pushing yours through again.



#32 Nortrom

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Posted 10 July 2015 - 03:22 AM

Your feedback is much appreciated, the fact you hide under an alias gives twice the credibility to your post.


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#33 Napoleon 1er

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Posted 10 July 2015 - 10:08 PM

 

As you said in the other forum that you wish to read my opinion here, here it is:

 

First one small remark:  I guess that the use of webcam is not necessarily suitable for players who wear glasses!  As you know when somebody wearing glasses is sitting in front of a computer screen the light of the screen will have for effect to reflect the image of the screen on the glasses. So if the opponent has a good quality screen he could enlarge the picture of the glasses he would see coming from the webcam of his opponent and read all the setup (in mirror) of his opponent!!!
....fortunately TheOptician will be more than happy to make some business and sell some non reflecting glasses to whoever needs it.  ;)

 

Athough I like very much and support any initiative that makes something for the promotion of stratego I have not voted yet in your poll because I'm not totally sure of your real intention. This year we've seen on stratego.com a very discreet, very committed and hardworking TC who managed 4 tournaments in a row with great success and for the fun of all participants. The serie is not finished as AT and end year Master tournament are still coming.
Because in your explanations above you didn't confirm that your "skyped clean" championship is not going to disturb or interfere with the existing tournament organizations I have to ask you the question directly: Can you confirm below  in this topic that the new "skype clean" championship will be set up in such a way and at such times that it will not disturb the organization in place on stratego.com for AT and end year Masters tournament?

 

If I have the pleasure to read such confirmation then I will vote for your poll.

 

Then I have a small suggestion: If the objective of the "skyped clean" list of participants is to ensure with highest degree of evidence that there are no multiple accounts playing in tournaments then I have another and more easy solution that has in fact been cleverly invented during the backstabber tournament: If you want to eliminate any multiple account player in tournament just make sure that all games of the first round are all played at same time (for example on first sunday at 15:00 GMT after registration closes). It will be simply impossible for a multiple account player to play 2 or more games in parallel at same time, he may even lose all these games. This will ensure that after first round all remaining players are different persons and set a good base for the following rounds where games can still be arranged as it has been done up to now.

 

Napoleon 1er


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#34 KARAISKAKIS

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Posted 11 July 2015 - 07:25 AM

@ Napoleon

 

Nortrom has already gave the answer to your question in his reply to someone with the nickname Challenger!  http://forum.strateg...lls/#entry39031

 

If you really think there are underlying motives, I can inform you that this idea has been privately discussed for quite a while, before maestro/karas stuff.

 

Anyway, we are more interested in your thoughts regarding the suggested ideas, this will only turn into a yes-no matter and is totally off-topi.

 

And I am asking you who is this hidden person who claims that there are underlying motives behind this idea about online WC?

Who is the other clown with nickname Shut up who tries to stop the debate for this issue asking me to stop replying to questions or comments about our idea? http://forum.strateg...ge-2#entry39309

Anyway....

 

The truth is the following:

Discussion and ideas about promotion of live gaming through online  have been started one year ago between me and members of EGC ( Morx and Nortrom are in EGC) during the WC in Thessaloniki.  I have shared also these ideas with important persons inside ISF like Hermann Kleier and playa . For your information EGC mainly focuses on the development Stratego by organising tournaments in as much countries in Europe as possible. THEY decided to be involved in organizing the first official Online Stratego World Championship and me and Hermann provided their help. The main philosophy of this new kind of tournament is to organise a'' live'' online community with stratego lovers. A community free of aliases , any kind of cheating and inappropriate behaviors. We believe that with this way we will promote the game and we will increase the live community and the participation in live events (like the real WC) as much as possible giving also the opportunity to people who can not travel to participate in a prestigious official online event with real prizes. 

One year ago all this stuff about Maestro wasn't in place so it is clear that there are not dirty intentions.

Current TC follows a plan which do not give free time space for another kind of tournament so it is inevitable to have overlapping events.  

From my part I tried 2 times to discuss with Maestro and find solutions but as you know better than me he always postpone things in order to follow his plan and prevent others .

 

The best we can do to not disturb the organization in place on stratego.com for AT and end year Masters tournament is to increase the time duration of each round from 1 week to 2 weeks. With this action we give the chance to players to participate in other (parallel) tournaments. 

If someone from the tournament managers  has a better idea please contact with us. 


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#35 Nortrom

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Posted 11 July 2015 - 07:27 AM

And please do so in PM; we'd like this thread to remain focussed on the actual topic, which is the poll


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#36 Guest_gpet0_*

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Posted 11 July 2015 - 08:11 AM

I don't particulary like Skype,but if there is no other solution to verify the players true identity ,i would use it in order to play a fair tournament.

Though some technical problems may occure,for example if one or both players don't use it,or if the connections is not goof enough to support it (wireless) ,what happens then?

It is already difficult to arrange same time meetings with people worldwide with different time zones,i would rather not make it even more difficult.

But ,as i said, it may be neccessary to ensure a fair game.



#37 Napoleon 1er

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Posted 11 July 2015 - 08:37 AM

Thanks for your confirmation that there are no dirty intentions. The 2 weeks option for the duration of a round makes it sufficient to not interfere with other already existing events. I voted now and negative for use of skype for following reasons:

 

1) I agree that skype could be a good thing to setup an alias free community of stratego lovers and strengthen the relationships between players but it must not be a prerequisite to play a championship. You can always set up this skype community independently from any participation to a championship. Furthermore I would not say that "Only exception is in cases both players agree to play without skype" ... I would do it the opposite "skype is not mandatory but if both players want to use it they are free to do so"

 

2) Skype is not a solution against cheaters. If a member of this skype community wants to cheat he can still do it by "giving hand" on his computer to a more skilled player of his friends, using software like "teamviewer" for example. So the player would sit in front of his webcam as proof that he is there but in fact it is his friend located at his home who would be playing by having the hand on that player's computer

 

3) Your request to supply TC with a screenshot of the skype account as evidence that a player is more than 14 years old is not enough. Take the example of player "Obama" currently silver captain with ELO 841: Imagine he would send the following screenshot to TC http://imgur.com/uArRZtR

...is this sufficient to demonstrate that he is more than 14 years old? Furthermore assume he would then show following pic in front of his webcam when playing his game http://imgur.com/hGM2Xl6

according to what you wrote above this is a sufficient evidence that he is effectively Obama because both pictures would match?

 

Napoleon 1er


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#38 KARAISKAKIS

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Posted 11 July 2015 - 09:17 AM

@Napoleon 

My reply will be in the topic http://forum.strateg...-for-online-wc/



#39 SEKERTZISS

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Posted 11 July 2015 - 04:21 PM

As a member of EGC  ...

I say that the skype can be for three minutes at the beginning and as at the end so farewell.

 

 
          I think the best because surely after some time will be  problems in connection.
 
 
 
 
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#40 Lonello

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Posted 11 July 2015 - 06:40 PM

I agree with Sekertziss here.


Lo




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