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#21 Aris1970

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Posted 10 June 2015 - 09:55 PM

for this topic... (1st Online World Championship Stratego)
My opinion has posted  before 2 months...
......will be the next day for online stratego......ect
 

 

@KARAISKAKIS

Greg,
i believe that your plan will give a final solution and will be the next day for online stratego, as you said "Tournaments, based on swiss perfect system (simulation of live WC but in longer duration)".
I know some detals of your plan (the last few months), you know that I agree, we have told about this (many hours) on the phone. You know that my English is not perfect unlike with my greek  :D , and that's why i will not write more details about this your plan. (Maybe i write in ΓΑΛΑΝΟΛΕΥΚΑ ΝΕΑ for the Greeks players)
 
I have an account in gravon but I play only here (stratego.com is my home  ;) ), I think that with your PLANO given the opportunity (ability) to me and other players to can play against  players of gravon as Ruben, .. .etc. it will be very pleasant !!!
I think the games that will be played ,the site should be jointly agreed with the two protagonists. In case of disagreement I think that should prevail stratego.com

 



#22 Midnightguy

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Posted 13 June 2015 - 07:56 PM

The moderator team has issued a warning point to SEKERTZISS for instigating a fight on the Forum, making replies in the "Discussions for an Online WC" topic that were confrontational, off-topic, and rude.   We ask all to help keep the Forum a place for constructive ideas and respectful dialogue.  Thank you.


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#23 KARAISKAKIS

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Posted 30 June 2015 - 12:55 PM

Please visit  http://forum.strateg...olls/?mode=show

and give us your vote according coming online world championship. Your opinion is valuable 

thx in advance



#24 cflag

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Posted 01 July 2015 - 10:49 AM

Although I avoid writing in this forum for the other site(Gravon), I think for the online WC is the most appropriate (due to existing problems here).The reasons are..
A. No need skype
B. All games can be watched live 
C. Noone can make double nickname 
D No double chase(progamme there already has ISF rules)
 And of course  another succesfull tournament will be here at that period(Autumn tourn) 
I believe its easier all participants make an account there( most of them already have) and of course EGF to communicate with the admin there who also is referee to live WC
The most top players here know what I mean.


#25 Ace72

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Posted 09 July 2015 - 04:14 AM

Greg asked me to comment my thoughts.... so here I am.

 

I have played Stratego online since October 2004. Lots of different sites and lots of online competitions over the years.

It's fun but that's all it is...... fun!

 

The real deal is at the REAL World Championships where all is fair and no possibilities of cheating or disconnecting or any other mishap that could occur when playing at home.

Many a time I have lost track of pieces when visiters arrive or the wife maybe feels a little playful. ;)

Playing at home (however pleasent and low cost) is just not a World Championship.

 

Stavros has received some stick here for pointing out some valid points.

My thoughts are similar to that of Stavros.

I think any tournament pretending to rival that of the real World Championship whether it is online or in real life, has the potential to damage the real life World Championship.

If Stratego is ever to be taken seriously as a mind sport then "there can be only 1" World Championship.

Stratego is a board game and that's how the World Championship should be played over the Jumbo board.

By all means have an online tournament but calling this tournament a World Championship is wrong and actually takes the game backwards.

What if this is a great success? Then maybe players no longer have the incentive to go to the real life tournament anymore?

 

Maybe some of the British players think "ohh maybe I will save my money and instead of going to World Championships at Waterloo, then I just play in this World Championship instead?" Do you really want to promote something that could reduce the numbers at the real event?

 

My suggestion would be to setup a league or a tournament where players can have their fun but not confuse things by calling any tournament a World Championship when we already have a World Championship.

This can do more damage than good.

 

Ace


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#26 Napoleon 1er

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Posted 09 July 2015 - 06:34 AM

@Ace
this is exactly what i said earlier in this topic. I agree 100%. Online stratego ranking can never substitute an official ranking made after results of face to face tounaments with identified players and neutral referrees judging issues.
If you like online tournaments for fun like all of us i invite you to join next autumn tournament. Watch the forum for online tournaments and read the newspaper "bomb of spies", recently some interesting info has been published there.
i remember also you've quit this website some months ago because to many bugs. Several bugs have already been resolved but the issues linked to bad player's behaviour like disconnections or multiple accounts are still to be fixed. Nevertheless this is usually no big problem for top players who regularly modify their setup. Maximum you have to sacrify 2:30 minutes of your precious time to wait for a victory after disconnect from your opponent ... a really minor evil.
hope to see you in future online tournaments.
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#27 KARAISKAKIS

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Posted 09 July 2015 - 10:36 AM

Greg asked me to comment my thoughts.... so here I am.

 

I have played Stratego online since October 2004. Lots of different sites and lots of online competitions over the years.

It's fun but that's all it is...... fun!

 

The real deal is at the REAL World Championships where all is fair and no possibilities of cheating or disconnecting or any other mishap that could occur when playing at home.

Many a time I have lost track of pieces when visiters arrive or the wife maybe feels a little playful. ;)

Playing at home (however pleasent and low cost) is just not a World Championship.

 

Stavros has received some stick here for pointing out some valid points.

My thoughts are similar to that of Stavros.

I think any tournament pretending to rival that of the real World Championship whether it is online or in real life, has the potential to damage the real life World Championship.

If Stratego is ever to be taken seriously as a mind sport then "there can be only 1" World Championship.

Stratego is a board game and that's how the World Championship should be played over the Jumbo board.

By all means have an online tournament but calling this tournament a World Championship is wrong and actually takes the game backwards.

What if this is a great success? Then maybe players no longer have the incentive to go to the real life tournament anymore?

 

Maybe some of the British players think "ohh maybe I will save my money and instead of going to World Championships at Waterloo, then I just play in this World Championship instead?" Do you really want to promote something that could reduce the numbers at the real event?

 

My suggestion would be to setup a league or a tournament where players can have their fun but not confuse things by calling any tournament a World Championship when we already have a World Championship.

This can do more damage than good.

 

Ace

Ηi Ace

 

Thanks a lot for your feedback. It is true that I invited you to post your opinion as I have done with other people because this is how democracy works. If we really want to develop our game everybody who cares must participate in such public discusions and share his opinion with others using his arguments. 

You know better than me that I share the same ideas with Stayros and if you read my post above will read my point of view which is similar with yours and Stayros. 

''My personal opinion is that live and online (despite the fact that we speak for the same game with the same rules)  are much different. To be World champion in live needs more abilities than to be World champion in online.''

The online WC doesn't have the purpose to replace the Live WC. Actually this kind of online competition will help to increase the players who will participate in the real WC.

The only way to promote the live gaming and find new players for the live is through the online and for this reason reliable competition like the idea of an online WC are neccessary. This is a perfect way to know new players , introduce them to the way Live WC works (e.g. how it works the swiss perfect system) , make new friendships with people who share the same passion with us for stratego and give an appointment to the next live WC .

EGC which is an organisation which has as role the promotion of the game realised that this way will develop the live gaming and decided to organise this event. One member of ISF (Hermann) offers his valuable help to create a reliable international online rating . And 2 other members in ISF (me and Tim) have already show their possitive approach to this project

But I repeat the online WC will never replace the live because we speak for 2 different things. The glory of the World champion in Live will be always more brilliant than the  glory of World champion in Online.

From the other hand the online WC will give the opportunity of participation to players from countries outside Europe. Such players  (with 1-2 exceptions) have never participate in a live WC. We call it world championship but we speak for an event with countries only from Europe. If we want to make it really World Championship we must motivate people outside Europe to participate. And there is only one way  THROUGH ONLINE . If we really want to see stratego among the olympic games we must work towards this direction.

At last but not least I invite you  to read these 2 posts and consider very carefully about their messages.

http://forum.strateg...indpost&p=22500

http://forum.strateg...indpost&p=38881

 

@Napoleon

 

It is funny how easy you change your mind. First you post that you like the idea of online WC ,  after a while you change it . It looks that it has to do with the author  :)



#28 Nortrom

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Posted 09 July 2015 - 11:38 AM

 

Although I avoid writing in this forum for the other site(Gravon), I think for the online WC is the most appropriate (due to existing problems here).The reasons are..
A. No need skype
B. All games can be watched live 
C. Noone can make double nickname 
D No double chase(progamme there already has ISF rules)
 And of course  another succesfull tournament will be here at that period(Autumn tourn) 
I believe its easier all participants make an account there( most of them already have) and of course EGF to communicate with the admin there who also is referee to live WC
The most top players here know what I mean.

 

A): Incorrect
B: During WC's it is not allowed to watch any games anyway
C: Correct
D: Correct
 
@ ACE - Thanks for your well described feedback, much appreciated. 
 
One of the main purposes ( atleast from my POV ), is to give those, who would never participate in a real WC ( thinking they're not good enough, not sure if they'll like the experience and such ) a chance to participate in a big event on their own conditions ( own place/computer, play when it suits them (within limits of course ) , be able to compete with the best players ) hoping that they'll be inspired to join real WC's/tournaments, for those who don't, atleast we were able to provide something for them.

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#29 Napoleon 1er

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Posted 09 July 2015 - 01:02 PM

@Napoleon

It is funny how easy you change your mind. First you post that you like the idea of online WC , after a while you change it . It looks that it has to do with the author :)[/quote]

Probably you misunderstood me ... i do not change my mind with regard to online championship. I'm only confirming that the ranking resulting from such championship can never become an official world stratego ranking. It will remain an online championship ranking.
If you don't know where you go ... you have a lot of chance to arrive elsewhere ...

#30 KARAISKAKIS

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Posted 09 July 2015 - 01:38 PM

Probably you misunderstood me ... i do not change my mind with regard to online championship. I'm only confirming that the ranking resulting from such championship can never become an official world stratego ranking. It will remain an online championship ranking.

It is ok and we agree on that 100%. I never claimed something different

 It will remain an official online international championship ranking. The official world rating and ranking  http://www.kleier.net/ can not and should not be changed  or substituted because it is created for live tournaments and has nothing to do with online gaming.

I am waiting also your opinion in the polls  :) and I hope for your participation.



#31 Shut Up.

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Posted 10 July 2015 - 12:27 AM

KARAISKAKIS, you act very defensively and sensitive by replying to every single topic. Seems like you want to push through your opinion a bit too much. Let people think for themselves and brainstorm a bit, rather than intervening after every single post and controlling the public opinion by pushing yours through again.



#32 Nortrom

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Posted 10 July 2015 - 03:22 AM

Your feedback is much appreciated, the fact you hide under an alias gives twice the credibility to your post.


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#33 Ace72

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Posted 10 July 2015 - 05:40 AM

 

From the other hand the online WC will give the opportunity of participation to players from countries outside Europe.

Online Stratego tournaments have been around for many years. Certainly more than 10 years.

There has always been an opportunity for players from outside Europe to participate in online stratego tournaments.

How would calling this tournament a WC increase participation at real life events?

 

If we really want to see stratego among the olympic games we must work towards this direction.

Exactly how many events at the olympic games have online WC's?

None!

Sure they all have online tournaments but no WC's online. All WC's are real life events.

 

As you already know...... we would need federations in many countries to even be considered as an Olympic sport.

How does this online WC become an incentive to online players to create a federation and start playing over the board game?

What suddenly (by including the words WC) makes this tournament ANY different to any other online tournament?

 

I see online tournaments as a good way to get players interested in the real life game. But the prize cannot be too great. There must always be an incentive to move over to competitive play on the board game. Calling an online tournament a WC is too great a prize.

 

I have been trying to think up a way to make this work without damaging the real life event. Options are limited, but I have a proposal.

Why not call it an online qualification for the WC?

The top 3 players get:

1st: Free travel, accommodation and entrance to WC 2016.

2nd: Free accommodation and entrance to WC 2016

3rd: Free entrance to WC 2016.

This would be an incentive indeed.

No fancy titles but the winners get the opportunity to play at the WC at reduced or zero cost.

 

The entrance fees and accommodation could be supplied by the NSO who runs the WC 2016. It shouldn't be a problem if things are known in advance.

The winner who gets free travel to WC could be supplied by Jumbo or Stratego.com maybe? Maybe they could sponsor such an event with a prize like this?

This is the road I would rather go down.

Give an incentive for players to go to the real WC and compete with the best.


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#34 scottrussia

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Posted 10 July 2015 - 06:48 AM

Olympic sport????

 

Other than the cold sweat of my opponents as our fearless army attacks I don't see any evidence that Stratego is a "Sport".   A  sport should contain physical prowess.  IMO it should also contain physical effort and sweat! 

 

I don't think that clicking a mouse is physical prowess!!

 

I really don't see the purpose of this.  There are multiple sites that people play stratego on.  This site already has a group of people organizing tournaments virtually non-stop.  They have set up a champions league, elimination tournaments and a team tournament. 

 

In addition I think they already have some type of special tournament at the end of the year based on performance - What else can you want?????

 

This idea that people need to use Skype and verify verify verify is simply over the top.  Its a board game.  Next will be demanding scans of passports and Interpol background checks!!!

 

I'm going to organize the Spartan Warrior Championships!!!  The one and only true fighting Stratego Champion will be crowned!!!!  No retreats!!!  No shuffling!!!  No 15 second moves!!! No running your spy around!!!  No flying scouts!!!!!  Just true fighting Stratego the way the game was meant to be played!!!!


​Spartan Warriors

KING of the Battlefield!!!!!!


#35 Morx

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Posted 10 July 2015 - 09:46 AM

There was never a world championship online because the technology to try to validate persons and diminish the chance of cheating was simply not in place. Also we never had a platform the size of Stratego.com with its large number of players. Besides this nobody ever considered organizing an online world championship.

 

This will be one of the first times I know that we will use a Swiss tournament format. Most tournaments in the past were based on the principle of lose=out.

 

As for the Olympic thought: Bridge and Chess are in the long process of becoming Olympic as we speak.

Already in the 2002 winter olympics Bridge was demonstrated as a sport.

 

Have a look here on Bridge  efforts and current status: http://worldbridge.org/ioc.aspx

 

Note that both Chess and Bridge are considered sports by the IOC:

 

https://en.wikipedia...cognized_sports

 

I always consider Stratego something between Bridge, Chess and Poker because it has elements of imperfect information, analytical analysis skill required, bluffing and deduction. Some of the best players I know are also gifted Chess, Bridge and/or Poker players.

 

As for Ace feedback: I think we want the same: to grow the Stratego community. We are just are using different methods.

 

Kind regards,

Morx



#36 KARAISKAKIS

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Posted 10 July 2015 - 04:53 PM

Online Stratego tournaments have been around for many years. Certainly more than 10 years.

There has always been an opportunity for players from outside Europe to participate in online stratego tournaments.

How would calling this tournament a WC increase participation at real life events?

Exactly how many events at the olympic games have online WC's?

None!

Sure they all have online tournaments but no WC's online. All WC's are real life events.

 

As you already know...... we would need federations in many countries to even be considered as an Olympic sport.

How does this online WC become an incentive to online players to create a federation and start playing over the board game?

What suddenly (by including the words WC) makes this tournament ANY different to any other online tournament?

 

I see online tournaments as a good way to get players interested in the real life game. But the prize cannot be too great. There must always be an incentive to move over to competitive play on the board game. Calling an online tournament a WC is too great a prize.

 

I have been trying to think up a way to make this work without damaging the real life event. Options are limited, but I have a proposal.

Why not call it an online qualification for the WC?

The top 3 players get:

1st: Free travel, accommodation and entrance to WC 2016.

2nd: Free accommodation and entrance to WC 2016

3rd: Free entrance to WC 2016.

This would be an incentive indeed.

No fancy titles but the winners get the opportunity to play at the WC at reduced or zero cost.

 

The entrance fees and accommodation could be supplied by the NSO who runs the WC 2016. It shouldn't be a problem if things are known in advance.

The winner who gets free travel to WC could be supplied by Jumbo or Stratego.com maybe? Maybe they could sponsor such an event with a prize like this?

This is the road I would rather go down.

Give an incentive for players to go to the real WC and compete with the best.

@ Ace

 

This is exactly our intention . ''Give an incentive for players to go to the real WC and compete with the best.''

This why we are going to give real prizes . To motivate people to join the real WC. http://forum.strateg...indpost&p=39260

''The main philosophy of this new kind of tournament is to organise a'' live'' online community with stratego lovers. A community free of aliases , any kind of cheating and inappropriate behaviors. If you have had the chance to participate in live tournaments you will notice all the above.''
Rewards will be real prices (medals and diplomas and maybe in future something more worthy) and classification will be according a professional international ranking system (kleier's). http://greg.kleier.selfhost.me/ ''
 
About your other questions with a discussion during coming WC in Waterloo I hope to convice you and give you the needed answers.
As Morx said all of us have as main principle to grow up the live Stratego community and all of us must work towards this direction.


#37 KARAISKAKIS

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Posted 11 July 2015 - 09:16 AM

Thanks for your confirmation that there are no dirty intentions. The 2 weeks option for the duration of a round makes it sufficient to not interfere with other already existing events. I voted now and negative for use of skype for following reasons:

 

1) I agree that skype could be a good thing to setup an alias free community of stratego lovers and strengthen the relationships between players but it must not be a prerequisite to play a championship. You can always set up this skype community independently from any participation to a championship. Furthermore I would not say that "Only exception is in cases both players agree to play without skype" ... I would do it the opposite "skype is not mandatory but if both players want to use it they are free to do so"

But if skype is not mandatory , how it is possible to prevent alliases join the event? We know that ISP check has failed to give solution.

2) Skype is not a solution against cheaters. If a member of this skype community wants to cheat he can still do it by "giving hand" on his computer to a more skilled player of his friends, using software like "teamviewer" for example. So the player would sit in front of his webcam as proof that he is there but in fact it is his friend located at his home who would be playing by having the hand on that player's computer

In that rare case this one who will try to cheat using that method most probably will face big troubles. e.g. disconnections because software like "teamviewer" slows down the speed of the pc. It is too risk to do such actions because there is big possibilty for an accident which will reveal your cheating method and that will have as result permantly disq. Imagine the situation that your friend lose his connection and can not play anymore but I can see you in the skype camera which means that your connection is ok. 

3) Your request to supply TC with a screenshot of the skype account as evidence that a player is more than 14 years old is not enough. Take the example of player "Obama" currently silver captain with ELO 841: Imagine he would send the following screenshot to TC http://imgur.com/uArRZtR

...is this sufficient to demonstrate that he is more than 14 years old? Furthermore assume he would then show following pic in front of his webcam when playing his game http://imgur.com/hGM2Xl6

according to what you wrote above this is a sufficient evidence that he is effectively Obama because both pictures would match?

 

Nice joke with obama pictures !!! :D 

You forget that what I see in the camera must be live image with move and sound

 

KARAISKAKIS



#38 KARAISKAKIS

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Posted 20 July 2015 - 04:48 PM

1st Online World Championship - Rules and sign up

visit http://forum.strateg...es-and-sign-up/

 

'' 1st online WC- Questions '' thread


#39 KARAISKAKIS

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Posted 21 July 2015 - 07:26 AM

I'm in and would like to participate!

 

Do we really need almost 2 months for sign up though? I imagine most players whom are interested would have joined by early August.

 

We started sign up period  early and decided to be so long  because August is a period when most people go for their summer vacations.

Also we expect and hope that new players in stratego.com will join the event but first of all needs to get in contact with them (some contacts will be in Waterloo). Also it will be neccessary to give them some time to play in our site and reach the bronze captain level. 



#40 KARAISKAKIS

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Posted 08 August 2015 - 06:14 PM

i removed the two following posts in this topic which has relation with the subject.

 

These live tournaments are probably a joke compared to the upcoming online tournament, given that all the best of the world can join easily without travelling. Or not?

 

 

Hi, as this is not the correct place for this discussion just a short reply.

The best players in the world (at the moment) live relatively close to each other in Western Europa (The Netherlands, Germany, UK) and most of the best players join every real life WC. Also one of the best American players joined multipe WCs. And there are also players from Belgium, Greece, Spain, Czech Republic, France, Ukraine, Norway, Italy etc.

The best online player since years (SatanNL) joined the last two real life Dutch championships but didn't reach the top-2.

So for sure the live tournaments are no joke. It's not only about the level of playing, the game has other dynamics and there is a different tension. I can only recommend everyone to experience it for themselves.

@Mitthunder

I agree with playa and I recommend to everyone who can travel to join a live WC. The experience to be part of such event is the most exciting experience for a strategolover. If you join once you can realise why I write this. I can not describe this, you must live it.

From the other hand as I have wrote in previous posts we can not compare live with online.

'My personal opinion is that live and online (despite the fact that we speak for the same game with the same rules)  are much different. To be World champion in live needs more abilities than to be World champion in online.''

And do not forget , real stratego is the board game.






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