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increasing number of players use memorizer tools


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#41 trickz

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 09:23 PM

Lol, so it's a fact according to you that Metaforge (I'm assuming you talk about that site) is slowly dying because of a twist between the pure players and the majority (all other players)?

That's just nonsense.  And to where would they go then?

This site doesn't offer that as well so to where then?

 

Some things are ment to NEVER change.

You said it right though......PURE players will never accept the RV because of the fact that they like it.....PURE.

Original, as the game was intended to be.

I bet if there's poll under the players on this site (or any other stratego site), the majority would certainly don't like it.

I think it's just a disgrace to the game.

You can see pieces with attacks or by being attacked. It's like that for about 100 years already.

And if you are tracing it back to the anchestors of Stratego, it would be more than 1000 years.

Then why would we change it now.....

Doesn't make any sense.


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#42 SuperDrew2k

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 10:34 PM

@ trickz

 

there are a bunch of reasons why meta is dying....i was a member there during 2007-2010....while i was there i saw the site climb from 130 members to around 250...now they barely have 100. many factors have killed their numbers, who knows where the deserters went. id say less than 20% of meta's members prefered playing pure stratego. those that set up a game with no RV would usually end up waiting and waiting for someone to join. 

 

the majority of the people that prefer the memory game are oldschool....stratego will end up dying with them if the variations dont catch on. if this site charged admission....it would be a ghost town too.

 

ive seen the "remain visable" polls/debates before...pure stratego did not win

 

"Original, as the game was intended to be.".... lol, that sounds like something out of the bible

 

i would provide a link, but i dont want to anger this site... go to meta's home page, click on watch games....and see how many pure games are being played...i just looked, i didnt see one


Hmm....i wonder where that marshal went

#43 SuperDrew2k

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 10:41 PM

hey, what about range attack with scouts? you know, where the scout cant attack from long distances, it has to stop in front of the piece....do you prefer that "pure" way of playing stratego or do you like the new method?


Hmm....i wonder where that marshal went

#44 trickz

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 12:02 AM

1) What has the scout got to do with a memorize tool? Right, nothing...and I do know that the scout's move has been changed through the years from one move in the begin to long distance moves now. That had to evolve eventually.

But that's not the issue here so I don't understand why you're bringing this subject up.

2)This site doesn't charge an amount to play. Battlecoins can be bought and be used to change your pawns, playgrounds, avatars...so that is still better than Metaforge where you had to pay through Paypal to become a specific member.

There you had no choice.  Here you have.

3)If Stratego is dead according to you,...then why do they sell every year still the original game?

Why are there so many Stratego games out there in all sorts of variations and this for more than 80 years long?

And especially the last years it's been active again,.....with again another variant Sci-fi that will be implemented on this site.

In order to produce all those games, there's gotta be profit otherwise there wouldn't be Stratego.

Your comment about Stratego being dead because of a stupid issue like this is just insane.

 

You can call me traditional, conservative, whatever you like but I love the pure original gameplay.

That's how it's been from the beginning and that's how it was ment to play.

If you can't handle that, then play another game.  This is a thinkgame where you have to plan and memorize in order to plan.

That's what made this game so great.

 

The only rule that may need an adaption is the 2s rule (which is also NOT original, replaced the 5move rule and was being implemented by the ISF).  Or an anti-chase rule if you want to call it like that.

For the rest nothing should ever be changed with this game.

And if you want to variate the rules, you can customize your own games or you can play other official variants, whatever you want.

But don't be arrogant to speak so called for the "entire Stratego community" that the pure nostalgic game lovers are ruining the game and blablaba,......that is YOUR opinion.

That's your good right to think that but I certainly do not think like that.

I'm not gonna speak for other people here (although I do think that the majority here don't want a memorize tool) and if I were you, I wouldn't do that either.

Let every variant exist in their value.

And let us have our original nostalgic traditional PURE game.

 

You may use your memory tool in another game perhaps?

How about good old Memory? :)

http://boardgamegeek...ame/7688/memory

 

"Original, as the game was intended to be.".... lol, that sounds like something out of the bible

 

I don't read that crap.  I also don't understand why you're bringing another subject up again.

Playing games has got nothing to do with reading stupid religion books....

I also don't understand why (and that's not only you but many others) always compare Stratego with chess.

Stratego is more comparable with poker than it is with chess.

But that's pure my opinion then :)


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#45 HmmNess

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 01:26 AM

I play stratego with kids, and every single one of them doesn't play "remain visible."  The game is about memory.  Allowing pieces to remain visible is really a kid’s game.  Yet, like I stated before, kids that I know do not play that way.  I will even remain visible my own pieces on purpose and they will turn the back around.  They understand the game is about memory and it is used as a tool to help them work on memorization skills.

 

HmmNess


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#46 SuperDrew2k

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 01:54 AM

my scout example was to prove that stratego could and has been improved...it was very much related to the subject "evolution of the game"

 

did i say stratego was dead?...or did i say dying?

 

i highly doubt many young people are buying those game boards off the shelves...and they keep designing new versions in order to try and keep the game alive.

 

you may love pure stratego but most young people (new players / the future of stratego) do not...you only like it because thats how you grew up playing it. 

 

 

you say it is a think game? correct...outplay your oppnent in order to capture the flag. doing that is way funner when you dont have to try and remember which cup the ball is under. have you ever played a game with a constant shuffler? do you like spending 20-40 minutes watching your opponent rotate their pieces? its not very fun. 

 

the memory portion of the game is not what makes it great...its the thrill of out bluffing, manuvering and being the first to grab that flag.

 

this is a really nice site....im very happy that they have the american number system now...if they implemented some other options, i would gladly use them, and so would many others im sure. but whatever, as long its free, i will play the memory game. 

 

imagine if chess pieces were concealed and you had to constantly remember what moved where....would that make the game of chess better or worse?....thats pretty much the opposite of this game but with the same correct answer. think about it...


Hmm....i wonder where that marshal went

#47 trickz

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 02:44 AM

my scout example was to prove that stratego could and has been improved...it was very much related to the subject "evolution of the game"

 

 

The scout is a piece so it's game related and a memorize tool has nothing to do with the game itself.

It was about the evolution of the gamePLAY.

 

did i say stratego was dead?...or did i say dying?

You said that other site was almost dead because of a twist between pure and random new players.

And probably you concluded that the "dead of meta" means that more players want to have visuals during games.....

That's what I make out of it.

 

i highly doubt many young people are buying those game boards off the shelves...and they keep designing new versions in order to try and keep the game alive.

Stratego is being sold in all formats everywhere around the globe on a daily basis.

The boardgame, all the variations of the boardgame, apps, even nintendo DS has got a version and the list goes on.

Every year there are new editions being made because people will always love this game.

It's maybe not the most popular game, that is true,....but it will always have its right of existence.

 

you may love pure stratego but most young people (new players / the future of stratego) do not...you only like it because thats how you grew up playing it. 

 

This is what I don't understand.

You speak in name of most young people or new players.

That is your opinion maybe but I doubt if the most young people think like that.

I even don't know how the memorize tool has been "civilized in the game" and being very popular among new players.

Who made this up in the first place? Probably some kind of player that was fed up with all the losses because of his bad memory.

Happened to be a great it-guy and he made some software to help himself.

It's just stupid :)

 

you say it is a think game? correct...outplay your oppnent in order to capture the flag. doing that is way funner when you dont have to try and remember which cup the ball is under. have you ever played a game with a constant shuffler? do you like spending 20-40 minutes watching your opponent rotate their pieces? its not very fun. 

 

So you don't think it's fun if your opponent lost track of your marshall which he detected before?

Well, I do think that's fun because it could give me a hugh advantage.

That's also a part of Stratego you know,.....the shuffling, use several pieces, let them cross places, constantly switching in the hope your opponent loses track. 

 

the memory portion of the game is not what makes it great...its the thrill of out bluffing, manuvering and being the first to grab that flag.

 

this is a really nice site....im very happy that they have the american number system now...if they implemented some other options, i would gladly use them, and so would many others im sure. but whatever, as long its free, i will play the memory game. 

 

imagine if chess pieces were concealed and you had to constantly remember what moved where....would that make the game of chess better or worse?....thats pretty much the opposite of this game but with the same correct answer. think about it...

 

The memory portion is essential in the game.

Getting information with attacks and being able to memorize his setup in order to prepare for your counterattack.

Why would you attack else? The intention of knowing some pieces where you can focus on of course,....

 

Btw, I don't imagine anything if you're talking about chess again.

This ain't no chess, it doesn't even look like chess and it's different in every aspect.


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#48 Enigma

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 03:54 AM

my scout example was to prove that stratego could and has been improved...it was very much related to the subject "evolution of the game"

 

did i say stratego was dead?...or did i say dying?

 

i highly doubt many young people are buying those game boards off the shelves...and they keep designing new versions in order to try and keep the game alive.

 

you may love pure stratego but most young people (new players / the future of stratego) do not...you only like it because thats how you grew up playing it. 

 

 

you say it is a think game? correct...outplay your oppnent in order to capture the flag. doing that is way funner when you dont have to try and remember which cup the ball is under. have you ever played a game with a constant shuffler? do you like spending 20-40 minutes watching your opponent rotate their pieces? its not very fun. 

 

the memory portion of the game is not what makes it great...its the thrill of out bluffing, manuvering and being the first to grab that flag.

 

this is a really nice site....im very happy that they have the american number system now...if they implemented some other options, i would gladly use them, and so would many others im sure. but whatever, as long its free, i will play the memory game. 

 

imagine if chess pieces were concealed and you had to constantly remember what moved where....would that make the game of chess better or worse?....thats pretty much the opposite of this game but with the same correct answer. think about it...

 

Your argument basically boils down to saying that the game is too difficult in its current form, and therefore it isn't fun.  In my opinion, it is fun mainly because it is challenging.  Like all games, some people like it and others don't.  That doesn't mean the game should be changed to appeal more to those who lack the skill or desire to play by the rules.  Memory is one important component among many. 

 

If you want to invent a new game with similar rules but with the pieces 'remaining visible'  and call it something else,by all means go ahead.  If you think it will be more popular and replace Stratego, you will soon attract more players.  This website, however, is dedicated (and I hope it stays dedicated) to re-creating the game of STRATEGO, which in its most basic form is a board game where two people sit across from one another and the pieces are only temporarily revealed.

 

Basketball is a challenging and fun game too.  Should we lower the rim to 7 feet (ie. change the rules) so that it would be easier for more people to play?  No.  Keep the game pure and true.  There are plenty of other great games that don't require the same focus, attention, and memory that are available. 


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#49 GaryLShelton

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 05:34 AM

I've never played with any "remain visible" feature in operation.  As a purist, I naturally don't like the thought of it.  Without honest memorization the game's clearly not the same.  Besides, if you like "remain visible" to mean that pieces are visible after discovery, then why not just start the game with complete information?  Make all pieces visible right from the get-go and not waste any time at all "discovering" pieces?  This seems the end of the "remain visible" logic to me.   That is, see who can hash things out the best from the beginning when both players have complete information.  

 

But beyond the issue of tradition vs. evolution that SuperDrew2k brings up, I don't want to see at Stratego.com if tournaments do not use it.  Official Stratego should be official Stratego.   I am glad the creators at Stratego.com have fielded the game that they have.  It is wonderful and I hope they always cater to the serious classical Stratego players, as it is a fabulous game just the way it is.  



The complete GS&F Rules can be found here: http://forum.strateg...rum-rules-2016/

Draw Refusal Rules, specifically, can be read here: http://forum.strateg...604#entry339604

#50 Lady Kathryn

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 10:29 AM

I agree. One stratego site I went to before coming to this one had so many diferent game options  and custom settings I literally could not find a regular stratego game to play.

refering to metaforge? i used to play there also. I like this site because IT MORE CLOSELY FOLLOWS ISF

tournament play.

 


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#51 Lady Kathryn

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 10:37 AM

OR be a really good tactician and plan set-up and strategy so you don't have to remember anything but 10, 9, 8, and bombs.


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#52 SuperDrew2k

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 02:41 PM

I've never played with any "remain visible" feature in operation.  As a purist, I naturally don't like the thought of it. 

 

thats exactly the problem with you purist players....you basicly knock it before you give it a good go. im not going to continue this debate with a bunch of hardheads that will be senile in no time, wishing there was a RV option. 

 

as for that basketball comment...

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=2ouXw328WYI


Hmm....i wonder where that marshal went

#53 trickz

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 02:53 PM

Superdraw, why are you always changing of subject?

Basketball, chess, scouts,.....you bring up anything to justify the memorize tool.

In your profile it says that you are 35 years,......so that means you're not of the young generation and therefore you played Stratego the common way,...WITHOUT a memorize tool.

 

And I've played MANY times with memorize tools,.....you know how?

With Probe, the AI World Champion PC. Matches against a cpu, for practising.

That's okay to do because you don't play against other people like this.

 

In all the other cases, it is and it remains STUPID :)


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#54 SuperDrew2k

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 03:12 PM

everything ive said relates...youre just not capable of seeing it.

 

stratego should not be a game that circles around memory, its about two equal armies trying to fight their way through each other....not many people want to spend 10 seconds before each move trying to recall what is where...if they did, schools would have stratego clubs as well as chess club. ive never seen or heard of a stratego tournament being held in the united states...im sure there has been a few, but not many. the internet is the only thing keeping stratego alive right now...but playing it that way does not assure a "pure" game...so you all mine as well evolve. 

 

i played a handful of times as a young child (with memory)....my oppenent was a shuffler, therefor the game was no fun. i didnt start playing again until my mid 20's...then my girlfriend and i would lay the pieces on their backs (much more enjoyable that way) soon i found meta and learned most people there prefered RV too...i played there for a year before discovering how fun the other "crazy" options can be...varients that people like you will never come to enjoy...and actually id prefer to play the game with many of those options instead.

 

like i said before....i will play the memory game as long as its free...but i and many many others would rather play the new and improved versions....just look at this site and others, not many people are into traditional stratego....look at your torneys, im sure they lacked numbers too. the basic game concept is great and could be so much better/popular....like chess


Hmm....i wonder where that marshal went

#55 trickz

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 03:25 PM

Nothing what you say is relating to a memorize tool.

You keep on comparing all kinds of things to justify that tool.

And if it's free and you want to use it,....then go play on Metaforge or I don't know where you can play like that.

Or do you play here with visuals?  If so, how do you do that then?

 

 

For the rest, this is an endless discussion so it has no use to debate it any further.

The ISF doesn't allow it (official Stratego organization),  this OFFICIAL site doesn't allow it, live official tournaments don't allow it, there's not a single mentionning in any Stratego game rules about this,....it never was and it never will be.  Those are the facts so I suggest you play the "new and improved versions" on your dying Metaforge site,......or Gravon or whatever site you please.

Perhaps they offer you crazy options to dunk your pieces as well, just like in basketball?

Maybe they also have an option to play Chessego, an exciting mix of chess and Stratego?

 

Whatever dude....


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#56 SuperDrew2k

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 03:31 PM

i cant wait to play you...im going to shuffle so much...that youre going to have to go to the pub when im done with you


Hmm....i wonder where that marshal went

#57 trickz

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 03:33 PM

You do that,....I just love that. The more you move with pieces, the better it is and the harder my counterattacks would be haha :)


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#58 SuperDrew2k

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 03:39 PM

 I suggest you play the "new and improved versions" on your dying Metaforge site,......or Gravon or whatever site you please.

 

im surprised youre not an american with that "love it or leave it" attitude

 

 

i would be at meta still...but unfortunately their high registration fee keeps the community very small


Hmm....i wonder where that marshal went

#59 trickz

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 03:46 PM

Ask if they want to implement an option of SlamballStratego,.......

So everytime you play there, just look for virtual trampolines that you can jump out of their high registration fee! :)

 

Btw, this OFFICIAL site is free to play.

No registration fee, no bs or whatsoever.

Just plain and simple pure Stratego :)


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#60 SuperDrew2k

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 04:05 PM

Ask if they want to implement an option of SlamballStratego,.......

So everytime you play there, just look for virtual trampolines that you can jump out of their high registration fee! :)

 

haha..youre hilarious

 

...i actually didnt have a problem with paying meta's fee....the problem was not enough members enrolled

 

plus another problem, which will eventually happen here due to rankings/stats...is that a lot of the players were afraid to hurt their precious ranking by playing less skilled opponents or lotto players.

 

 

 

dont get me wrong, now that this site has the american number system and remains free...im not going anywhere. unless it becomes so unpopulated to where i have to wait for people to join. 

 

i just hate it when people like you try to say its only stratego when played a certain way...

 

do you like playing cards? how many versions of poker have you played? or do you JUST consider texas hold em as "pure" poker?

 

ponder that "subject change" :)


Hmm....i wonder where that marshal went




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